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Forums - Sony Discussion - Linus - I’ve Disappointed and Embarrassed Myself (re: PS5 SSD)

Snoopy said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes let's wait for MS to up their clockrate by 30%....

I love that you think Sony knew exactly the hardware MS was putting and vice-versa.

You have already been explained that DLSS won't do what you think it will, besides that ridiculous notion that just because two systems are playing the same game they are already close in performance.

Same as with SSD you can't stop being wrong.

I can't believe I am going to say this, but I agree with soundwave. SSD on xbox one series x will be good enough to stream and load video games. They are not going to lock out xbox series x, xbox series s (I think it will become the market leader in US and UK for consoles), PC and possible Switch 2. And again, there isn't even a single game that is created that utilizes SSD yet. You think developers are going to drop the tradional optimization for games just for an SSD on a single platform out of nowhere?

Yes they have to drop traditional way on rendering. Also UE 5 using PS5 SSD tech. 



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Snoopy said:
HollyGamer said:

The games and the engine that took advantage PS5 SSD is UE 5 and the demo you just claimed can run at 4k at 60 pfs on Xbox , but in reallity. It cannot.

Unreal Engine 5 demo were especially made to utilize PS5 SSD , nanites and Lumen are used fast data streaming tech from PS5

https://www.vg247.com/2020/06/03/unreal-engine-rewrite-ps5-ssd-speed/ .

"“The ability to stream in content at extreme speeds enables developers to create denser and more detailed environments, changing how we think about streaming content. It’s so impactful that we’ve rewritten our core I/O subsystems for Unreal Engine with the PlayStation 5 in mind,” 

So probably Epic will have to build new Engine for Xbox SX or perhaps make some extrem modification (i doubt they will) .

Unreal Engine 5 are design by joined reserach between Sony and EPIC 

So basically Sony paid epic games and they said some nice things for PR. Is this the part I am supposed to be impressed? And again, look at Forza Horizon 4, It streams 4k assets at over 270 mph. Most games other than racing doesn't need to stream that fast and yet it can on the xbox one x.

Why would they say nice thing for PR, if the reality is like that, did I getting paid if i said Xbox SX has better teraflop than PS5??? The fact that UE 5 were design with PS5 SSD in mind is just fact. 



HollyGamer said:
Snoopy said:

I can't believe I am going to say this, but I agree with soundwave. SSD on xbox one series x will be good enough to stream and load video games. They are not going to lock out xbox series x, xbox series s (I think it will become the market leader in US and UK for consoles), PC and possible Switch 2. And again, there isn't even a single game that is created that utilizes SSD yet. You think developers are going to drop the tradional optimization for games just for an SSD on a single platform out of nowhere?

Yes they have to drop traditional way on rendering. Also UE 5 using PS5 SSD tech. 

Just like the PS3 when they dropped the traditional way of handling CPUs for the Cell processor. Oh wait, they didn't lol. News flash, most games are made on PC with PC in mind and then they are ported to consoles. PC focuses on CPU, GPU and Ram (the holy trinity).

Last edited by Snoopy - on 08 June 2020

HollyGamer said:
Snoopy said:

So basically Sony paid epic games and they said some nice things for PR. Is this the part I am supposed to be impressed? And again, look at Forza Horizon 4, It streams 4k assets at over 270 mph. Most games other than racing doesn't need to stream that fast and yet it can on the xbox one x.

Why would they say nice thing for PR, if the reality is like that, did I getting paid if i said Xbox SX has better teraflop than PS5??? The fact that UE 5 were design with PS5 SSD in mind is just fact. 

Geez, its as if Sony and UE worked together on a project that usually involves exchange in money. Remember when Todd Howard praised the PS3, but yet his games ran like shit on it. 



Snoopy said:
HollyGamer said:

Yes they have to drop traditional way on rendering. Also UE 5 using PS5 SSD tech. 

Just like the PS3 when they dropped the traditional way of handling CPUs for the Cell processor. Oh wait, they didn't lol. News flash, most games are made on PC with PC in mind and then they are ported to consoles. PC focuses on CPU, GPU and Ram (the holy trinity).

First,  PS3 did not invent new rendering tech.

second PS3 Cell CPU is actually bad for 3rd party developer, in the other hand PS5 IO/SSD are doing the opposites of PS3 cell , the existent  is there to simplified thing , to simplified game development. It was requested by developer.

PC will copied Sony anyway, they will implemented the same tech on PC in the future PC will implemented PS5 tech. So third party will like it or not adapt to PS5 



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Snoopy said:
HollyGamer said:

Why would they say nice thing for PR, if the reality is like that, did I getting paid if i said Xbox SX has better teraflop than PS5??? The fact that UE 5 were design with PS5 SSD in mind is just fact. 

Geez, its as if Sony and UE worked together on a project that usually involves exchange in money. Remember when Todd Howard praised the PS3, but yet his games ran like shit on it. 

PS3 actually a monster but it's dificult for third party to use it because it's complexity. PS5 actually the opposites, PS5 were developed by Developer idea and mind set. Mark Cerny is game developer and at the same time system engineer and hardware engineer. So he design system that benefit developer and efficient. 



@Pemalite

You're a PC gamer and I'm a tech enthusiast as well. You should know as well that teraflops is a bad indicator of performance in actual games and doesn't always scale in a linear fashion. You even said yourself that components make up performance of machine. I/O was clearly lacking in consoles in 7th 8th gen. Now both consoles are getting SSD's

That's one area I'm genuinely excited for. I don't get why you're so aggressive and dismissive about this. We, as PC gamers should be excited about this and what it can bring to PC's.

Tell me where I said SSD's are going to give the edge for PS5 in all games? I'm fully aware that it isn't going to inherently going to give you more raw performance. I said both with have their advantages. One machine better specs in where it matters GPU and Xbox One Series X will perform better in multiplatform other is more of a mystery. And it goes without saying games is where consoles gamers should go. Not sure where you're going with this..



hinch said:
@Pemalite

You're a PC gamer and I'm a tech enthusiast as well. You should know as well that teraflops is a bad indicator of performance in actual games and doesn't always scale in a linear fashion. You even said yourself that components make up performance of machine. I/O was clearly lacking in consoles in 7th 8th gen. Now both consoles are getting SSD's

That's one area I'm genuinely excited for. I don't get why you're so aggressive and dismissive about this. We, as PC gamers should be excited about this and what it can bring to PC's.

Tell me where I said SSD's are going to give the edge for PS5 in all games? I'm fully aware that it isn't going to inherently going to give you more raw performance. I said both with have their advantages. One machine better specs in where it matters GPU and Xbox One Series X will perform better in multiplatform other is more of a mystery. And it goes without saying games is where consoles gamers should go. Not sure where you're going with this..

I have absolutely nothing but praise for the hardware components in the Xbox Series X and Playstation 5, that is hardly being dismissive.

What I am against are the individual people trying to paint one console over the other as being so far ahead of the other, that it might as well be regarded as essentially a 10th gen console. And it's happening on both sides of the console divide... If you are as impartial as I am to console manufacturers, you would be recognizing this trait.

And I have on multiple occasions stated I am excited for next gen and what it means for games.

HollyGamer said:

Yeah agree about PC will rely on dumping everything in to the main system Ram

Xbox can do assets streaming in but  compared to PS5 it just not on the same level, so if Xbox trying to run the games like PS5 expect there will be some pop in in LOD or frame rates down or some lag.  Unless the game engine is procedural generation that relies heavily on CPU/GPU generation algorithms or physic , or relied a lot on path tracing. Some water/cloth/ hair and particle  simulation and deformation on character also relied on compute unit.

Wait on the games.

In theory the Xbox Series X should have the edge in things like lighting, where the Playstation 5 should have the advantage in texturing... For multi-plats anyway.

Just waiting on the games, to then break them down and analyze what developers are doing and what they are opting for.

HollyGamer said:

Before we have new info about Xbox SX IO costume , i will stay on my opinion that PS5 for now is still mile a head in terms of IO, also PS5 SSD raw speed also bigger than Xbox SX speed.  

Without a doubt the Playstation 5 has the I/O advantage over the Xbox Series X, even if we did get new details.

But the Xbox Series X also has the computational and memory bandwidth advantage.

They are both solid pieces of kit with advantages/disadvantages, but it's pretty clear they are both going to offer impressive gaming experiences.

HollyGamer said:

Even games that made on  cartridge like Switch are made with mechanical drive in mind. With this philosophy RAM becoming the big factor, every game need to be loaded first on RAM. With fast SSD and fast IO it change everything . it will not the same again because game doesn't need to be loaded and it just transfer and stream the data you need for a few minutes  ahead.

So yeah, we finaly returning to N64 era. 

You sure about that?

There are some impressive looking Switch games that have employed some very impressive material shaders and other assets considering the hardware it's operating on.






--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
hinch said:
@Pemalite

You're a PC gamer and I'm a tech enthusiast as well. You should know as well that teraflops is a bad indicator of performance in actual games and doesn't always scale in a linear fashion. You even said yourself that components make up performance of machine. I/O was clearly lacking in consoles in 7th 8th gen. Now both consoles are getting SSD's

That's one area I'm genuinely excited for. I don't get why you're so aggressive and dismissive about this. We, as PC gamers should be excited about this and what it can bring to PC's.

Tell me where I said SSD's are going to give the edge for PS5 in all games? I'm fully aware that it isn't going to inherently going to give you more raw performance. I said both with have their advantages. One machine better specs in where it matters GPU and Xbox One Series X will perform better in multiplatform other is more of a mystery. And it goes without saying games is where consoles gamers should go. Not sure where you're going with this..

I have absolutely nothing but praise for the hardware components in the Xbox Series X and Playstation 5, that is hardly being dismissive.

What I am against are the individual people trying to paint one console over the other as being so far ahead of the other, that it might as well be regarded as essentially a 10th gen console. And it's happening on both sides of the console divide... If you are as impartial as I am to console manufacturers, you would be recognizing this trait.

And I have on multiple occasions stated I am excited for next gen and what it means for games.

HollyGamer said:

Yeah agree about PC will rely on dumping everything in to the main system Ram

Xbox can do assets streaming in but  compared to PS5 it just not on the same level, so if Xbox trying to run the games like PS5 expect there will be some pop in in LOD or frame rates down or some lag.  Unless the game engine is procedural generation that relies heavily on CPU/GPU generation algorithms or physic , or relied a lot on path tracing. Some water/cloth/ hair and particle  simulation and deformation on character also relied on compute unit.

Wait on the games.

In theory the Xbox Series X should have the edge in things like lighting, where the Playstation 5 should have the advantage in texturing... For multi-plats anyway.

Just waiting on the games, to then break them down and analyze what developers are doing and what they are opting for.

HollyGamer said:

Before we have new info about Xbox SX IO costume , i will stay on my opinion that PS5 for now is still mile a head in terms of IO, also PS5 SSD raw speed also bigger than Xbox SX speed.  

Without a doubt the Playstation 5 has the I/O advantage over the Xbox Series X, even if we did get new details.

But the Xbox Series X also has the computational and memory bandwidth advantage.

They are both solid pieces of kit with advantages/disadvantages, but it's pretty clear they are both going to offer impressive gaming experiences.

HollyGamer said:

Even games that made on  cartridge like Switch are made with mechanical drive in mind. With this philosophy RAM becoming the big factor, every game need to be loaded first on RAM. With fast SSD and fast IO it change everything . it will not the same again because game doesn't need to be loaded and it just transfer and stream the data you need for a few minutes  ahead.

So yeah, we finaly returning to N64 era. 

You sure about that?

There are some impressive looking Switch games that have employed some very impressive material shaders and other assets considering the hardware it's operating on.




Both consoles are probably very balanced with no "single bottleneck", sure one task or another or one type of approach or another would be inneficient or bottlenecked, but the console itself is a type of "all at once failure" where all elements have been balanced to work on same capacity without limiting one another.

The difference in both consoles architectures is most probably a consequence of the game development design that both parties want to follow and though would be the best bang for buck to achieve. Similar problems (but not equal), with equivalent solution (but not equal).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Pemalite said:
hinch said:
@Pemalite

You're a PC gamer and I'm a tech enthusiast as well. You should know as well that teraflops is a bad indicator of performance in actual games and doesn't always scale in a linear fashion. You even said yourself that components make up performance of machine. I/O was clearly lacking in consoles in 7th 8th gen. Now both consoles are getting SSD's

That's one area I'm genuinely excited for. I don't get why you're so aggressive and dismissive about this. We, as PC gamers should be excited about this and what it can bring to PC's.

Tell me where I said SSD's are going to give the edge for PS5 in all games? I'm fully aware that it isn't going to inherently going to give you more raw performance. I said both with have their advantages. One machine better specs in where it matters GPU and Xbox One Series X will perform better in multiplatform other is more of a mystery. And it goes without saying games is where consoles gamers should go. Not sure where you're going with this..

I have absolutely nothing but praise for the hardware components in the Xbox Series X and Playstation 5, that is hardly being dismissive.

What I am against are the individual people trying to paint one console over the other as being so far ahead of the other, that it might as well be regarded as essentially a 10th gen console. And it's happening on both sides of the console divide... If you are as impartial as I am to console manufacturers, you would be recognizing this trait.

And I have on multiple occasions stated I am excited for next gen and what it means for games.

HollyGamer said:

Yeah agree about PC will rely on dumping everything in to the main system Ram

Xbox can do assets streaming in but  compared to PS5 it just not on the same level, so if Xbox trying to run the games like PS5 expect there will be some pop in in LOD or frame rates down or some lag.  Unless the game engine is procedural generation that relies heavily on CPU/GPU generation algorithms or physic , or relied a lot on path tracing. Some water/cloth/ hair and particle  simulation and deformation on character also relied on compute unit.

Wait on the games.

In theory the Xbox Series X should have the edge in things like lighting, where the Playstation 5 should have the advantage in texturing... For multi-plats anyway.

Just waiting on the games, to then break them down and analyze what developers are doing and what they are opting for.

HollyGamer said:

Before we have new info about Xbox SX IO costume , i will stay on my opinion that PS5 for now is still mile a head in terms of IO, also PS5 SSD raw speed also bigger than Xbox SX speed.  

Without a doubt the Playstation 5 has the I/O advantage over the Xbox Series X, even if we did get new details.

But the Xbox Series X also has the computational and memory bandwidth advantage.

They are both solid pieces of kit with advantages/disadvantages, but it's pretty clear they are both going to offer impressive gaming experiences.

HollyGamer said:

Even games that made on  cartridge like Switch are made with mechanical drive in mind. With this philosophy RAM becoming the big factor, every game need to be loaded first on RAM. With fast SSD and fast IO it change everything . it will not the same again because game doesn't need to be loaded and it just transfer and stream the data you need for a few minutes  ahead.

So yeah, we finaly returning to N64 era. 

You sure about that?

There are some impressive looking Switch games that have employed some very impressive material shaders and other assets considering the hardware it's operating on.




Remember PS5 has small compute unit than Xbox SX so the bandwidth on RAM is enough also for that, Xbox SX also has split memory for the speed , 10 GB @ 560 GB/s, 6GB @ 336 GB/s

also it doesn't mean that if Xbox has more CU , PS5 cannot do simple lightning effect, the CU already powerful enough to do CG rendering for both, the problem is the more power the GPU is  the more data you need. Especially if you want to make a realistic assets and high texture assets 

also the thing is, world assets like high resolution  texture, geometry , are the most problematic and consumed memory and bandwidth when it come to games. This will help a lot freeing the GPU workload.

 Xbox will do great, it's just depend on the game engine game developer are optimizing for.

I never said there is no impressive games on Switch, but most third party games on switch are ported games from PS3 and PS4, so their games engine are a still a copied method from  mechanical data structures, so no real time data path for assets.