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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

vivster on 01 April 2020
last92 said:
vivster said:

I would say it's a great thing that people finally start to notice China if I wasn't so god damn sure that everything will go back to status quo after each country dealt with their own problem.

True. The real madness here is how the West put their economies in China's hands. But hey, gotta keep the economy going, so we're ready to close our eyes and pretend we don't see what happens there.

This whole crisis may have originated in China and China may have hidden the real danger of this virus to protect its economy, but all countries are responsible for the current situation, especially those countries that where still downplaying the issue when hundreds were dying in Italy and even Italy was too slow and only acted when it was obvious that this thing has the potential to kill hundreds of thousands of people if left unchecked.

What if I told you that there are still people downplaying the issue? Makes it really tough to blame it on China now.



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last92 on 01 April 2020
vivster said:

What if I told you that there are still people downplaying the issue? Makes it really tough to blame it on China now.

Feeble-minded people that can't accept they were wrong and don't want to change their official stance even if deep down they know they were being unreasonable. 

And I still blame China. They're the main culprit here, let's not kid ourselves. They knew everything and stayed quiet because of money and reputation. They're just not the only culprit. After all, other advanced countries acted late for the same reasons.



vivster on 01 April 2020
RolStoppable said:
vivster said:

I kinda still stand by what I said because it was based on solid data. Also I never suggested to not take measures against it, that was just inferred by my lack of care. I applaud governments who took steps against it and shaking my head at those who didn't. The fact is, by that time the world actually listened to me because they had the same numbers to look at. And looks like it still turned out better than all the doom sayers were preaching. We're still far away from the worst case scenario that I imagined and we'll never reach it at this point be cause the virus simply isn't strong enough.

What I do admit is that I definitely overestimated the health systems of other countries. Thinking that other developed countries had a similarly well prepared health system as Germany was a mistake. I should've known better since I'm always the one saying that Germany is the best place in the world to live a healthy and safe life. Thanks to the virus I actually got that confirmation now.

I'm still not scared about the virus and I do not expect any significant lasting effects from it long term. I have a robust trust in my country and the world as a whole to recover quickly from this special inconvenience. I would consider myself a realist, but in a time where everyone is a pessimist I guess I'll take on the role of the unshakable optimist.

Preventable deaths aren't a good thing, but it would be a bold faced lie if I said I really care. Every year millions of people die from preventable deaths and I didn't care then either and neither did anyone who cares now. I'm probably also gonna die some day of a preventable cause and it's gonna suck. But if I went that way looking at my life I might as well kill myself now because that is no way of living.

When I look at the death numbers I don't think of the lives lost or the pain of their loved ones. It's impossible to take all of that in. Instead I think of freed up ICUs to save more people and I think of a slightly lower death rate in the coming years. On a global levels those "scary" numbers are still not scary to me because they dwarf against the people who are unaffected. You might say that I'm cold or a sociopath and that is probably true, but I know that me being sad or scared in this situation is helping exactly no one. I'm just doing my job and so should everyone else.

And you know what's gonna be the real fun? After all of this is over, people like you will just go back to not caring again and we'll still have preventable diseases spread like wildfires. People will look at influenza deaths and laugh about them, refusing to wear face masks, not wash their hands and go sick to work. And people whose lives were saved by vaccines will do campaigns about not trusting vaccines. And people will continue to smoke and drink and kill other people in the process. And you won't care and neither will anyone else. But at least for once in your life you can have the moral high ground over some random guy on the internet because of a temporary global pandemic. Now go and pad yourself on the back, you sure showed me. 

Great post in general, but I have to comment on the bolded portion. Germany has the laxest laws on meat production, so it's home to the lowest quality meat in Europe. A consequence of the mass production of meat is that there's a lot of poo from the animals which is then spread on the fields in excess because nobody knows where to go with it; the result is that water quality has begun to suffer in Germany, and water is the most essential thing for human life.

So no, Germany is definitely not the best place to live a healthy and safe life, because your country is literally full of shit.

So you agree that Germany has the best shit.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster on 01 April 2020
NightlyPoe said:
Looks like the US numbers went up a few thousand yesterday. Hopefully, that's a blip and not an indication that a few states like Michigan and Louisiana will continue to drive the numbers up.

Why would it be a blip? The US isn't even close to peak numbers. As long as they keep the testing up you'll see it rise every day for at least the next week. It's not like the other states are doing better than NY, they're just a bit behind.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

SvennoJ on 01 April 2020

I updated my graphs with data up to yesterday, which shows the average growth rates up to the 30th (Monday)

The daily growth in cases is slowing down in most of Europe with Italy and Germany being in decline. Unfortunately (and expected) the avg daily deaths are still climbing, but stabilizing in Italy and Spain which are currently closely following each other. Spain is still slightly trending upwards though while Italy should not climb any further.

Spain, France and Germany have now passed Italy for daily growth. Germany's death toll is still low thanks to detecting a lot more cases, or rather having a more accurate view of the situation, which results in different demographics for the detected cases. (Many more young people with mild symptoms detected) The avg death rates are climbing the same as in any other country however.

As a result of the efforts in Europe, the average growth rate for Europe has stabilized and showed signs of reaching a peak on the 27th. A couple more days of data will show if it really is a peak for Europe or whether other countries lagging behind will drive it further up. The USA is still climbing but not as fast as before.

Europe is currently responsible for 53.4% of daily new cases (461.7K total), The USA 32.8% (188.5K total), leaving 13.8% for the rest of the world (858.4K total)
Europe is still responsible for 75.8% of daily deaths (30.2K total), The USA 14.8% (3.9K total), leaving 9.4% for the rest of the world (42.3K total)
Europe has a good chance of passing the half million confirmed cases today, or will get very close to it.
The USA caught up a tiny bit more and is currently 8.32 days behind Europe.

For the top right graph, China's data has gone awol, surprise? No more regular updates and data keeps changing. They should still be low...
Iran seems to be reaching a plateau in testing again, its death toll suggests they're missing a lot of cases.
Canada is catching up on testing but still needs to do a lot better. The avg daily deaths in Canada are where Germany was on March 19th yet the number of cases detected so far in Canada are only half of what Germany had found on March 19th.
Australia and Brazil are currently tied in detecting new cases, however Brazil already counted 203 deaths vs 21 in Australia. Brazil is testing much less.
South Korea is the poster child of keeping the virus under control, steady at 100 cases a day, 6 or 7 deaths daily which should go down further.

(The natural progression of this virus in the above graphs is 1 block up for 3 across, or nearly 10x increase every 15 days)



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KazumaKiryu on 01 April 2020

Kojima Productions Studio with Coronavirus :( The studio is closed for the next time.



vivster on 01 April 2020
John2290 said:
vivster said:

So you agree that Germany has the best shit.

You're a climate acivist, vivster? You shouldn't be praising Germany, hehe. 

I am praising Germany's robust social and health system, consumer and worker protection, low violent crime rate paired with political and economic strength, which provide the perfect environment to lead a secure and healthy life. Pointing out singular things that are not perfect won't change anything about that.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

useruserB on 01 April 2020
vivster said:
John2290 said:

You're a climate acivist, vivster? You shouldn't be praising Germany, hehe. 

I am praising Germany's robust social and health system, consumer and worker protection, low violent crime rate paired with political and economic strength, which provide the perfect environment to lead a secure and healthy life. Pointing out singular things that are not perfect won't change anything about that.

Nope, not how things work, everyone knows in this day and age, things are forever and soley defined by their worst traits, aspects, occurrences etc...



JRPGfan on 01 April 2020
John2290 said:
vivster said:

So you agree that Germany has the best shit.

You're a climate acivist, vivster? You shouldn't be praising Germany, hehe. 

Germany isnt even close to being amoung the worse of countries when it comes to the enviroment & polution.
In terms of CO2 emissions, there probably just around top 30 (~2020).

USA vs Germany:
Ecological footprint, CO2 emissions, Marrine Fish catching pr population, waste generation, drinking water polution, amount of land % under protection, Transport CO2 emmissions.

^ in all these area's, germany does alot better than the USA.

Air polution is only slightly better overall in the US, than germany.
By more or less any other measure, as a climate acivist, you shouldnt complain about germany, before getting angry at many other countries (that are doing worse than them)

source:
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Germany/United-States/Environment



Nighthawk117 on 01 April 2020
vivster said:
John2290 said:

You're a climate acivist, vivster? You shouldn't be praising Germany, hehe. 

I am praising Germany's robust social and health system, consumer and worker protection, low violent crime rate paired with political and economic strength, which provide the perfect environment to lead a secure and healthy life. Pointing out singular things that are not perfect won't change anything about that.

If Germany is doing so great, then why are thousands of US military personnel over there protecting your German asses?