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Forums - Microsoft - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

goopy20 on 11 February 2020
sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

The only facts we have is MS saying their 1st party games will be cross-gen for the next 1 or 2 years. And uncle Phil saying they have no wish to compete with Sony and Nintendo anymore because Amazon and Google are now apparently their main competitors. Everything else is all assumptions, like the first wave of ps5 exclusives being nothing special and won't take advantage of of the new tech. 

You should just ask yourself this. Does, MS saying their 1st party games will be cross gen for the first 1 or 2 years, sound like a good or a bad thing to you? I mean if you're not planning on buying a next gen console in the first 2 years anyway, it's not bad news at all. However, if you do plan on buying a series X early on, then tell me you wouldn't be disappointed if Halo Infinite turns out looking like a current gen remaster. Especially when something like Horizon Zero Dawn 2 comes out and does have true next gen ai, physics, geometry and whatnot. Not saying that will happen, but we do know for a fact that both companies have totally different strategies going in. So 1, 2 or 5 Years of cross gen games, it doesn't matter. What matters is if you think it's a good or a bad thing to begin with. And seeing how defensive some people are getting, I already know the answer.   

Hopefully you'll prove me wrong but the way MS's been talking reminds me so much of when MS was trying to shove Kinect down everyone's throat with the 360 and then taking it to another stupendous level when they announced the X1. Which was pitched as a box that connects the whole living room with Kinect and also plays games. I will just leave this here as a reminder of what happened the last time MS started blabbering about their services, instead of focusing on just launching a gaming console: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

Ya that’s some nice mental gymnastics you doing. Comparing Game Pass...a service designed around traditional games at insane value to Kinect....a casual games peripheral. Bravo.

Im finally glad I’ve been having this discussion for over a week cause now I feel amazing going into next gen. Losing made MS hungry and now they giving us their best out the gate.

Where as Sony has zero motivation to give gamers their best out the gate...why should they? They won by a landslide and Sony has a habit of being arrogant when they on top.  Historically PS4 exclusives (that weren’t cross gen) didn’t make the most of the console nor were their best quality games. Ironically their best game will likely be Last of Us 2...a cross gen title. 

Sony forced Nintendo to do things differently since 2006 and now they forcing MS to try new things. Cross gen has its pros and cons but it’s better then Sony giving you their B tier games at launch because they expect you to buy PS for the brand name alone. Also them not giving you day 1 access to their exclusives because they want you to be good fans and give them more money upfront. XB1 losing never felt this good :)

Look, I get it. You love Game Pass. Hell, playing Gears 4 and 5 for $1 was a great deal for me as well. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying nobody is going to pick the Series X over Sony's AAA exclusives because it has GP. It's a nice bonus but that's it. And it's weird that it seems to be MS's focus, just like it was weird when TV and Kinect were the focus during the Xone reveal in 2013.

If you want to make more assumptions then fine man. Sony is lazy, MS is hungry. And all the ps5 exclusive launch titles will be B tier games as Sony expects people to buy crappy games and their $500 console just because of brand loyalty... You say MS's strategy has its pros and it cons, so please enlighten me. What are the pro's for you as a gamer, who will probably rush to get the Series X at launch? I can totally understand the pro's for MS from a business perspective or for people who can't afford a next gen console at launch. But as a gamer who is excited about next gen, I'm getting less and less excited about the Series X every time Phil makes another statement. 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 11 February 2020

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eva01beserk on 11 February 2020
sales2099 said:

Koi

eva01beserk said:

........did you see what's crosgen? Or did you just count them? Its little A to AA games that are crosgen. The big guns are ps4 exclusive. Plus most of thouse games arent even made by Sony. Could be publish by them I dont know.

Knack: Metacritic 54

Killzone Shadowfall: 73

Infamous Second Sun: 80

Drive club: 71

The Order 1886: 63

These are the 1st party “true exclusives” Sony released in the same time frame that Xbox would do its cross gen initiative. Ya.....so much quality here. Real heavy hitters that gamers mention in the same sentence as GOW, Spider-Man and Uncharted 4. 

So really the argument is that in the same time frame this upcoming gen, Sony will get off 3-5 exclusives but if history is any indication, they won’t be their best and won’t make the best use of the hardware. 

Where as Xbox is giving us their best. Halo is a 5 year developed game instead of 3, Forza 8 will be 3 years instead of the usual 2. Ironically the best PS5 early exclusive will be the cross gen Last of Us 2 ;)

Now imaging how worst could they have been were there to be crossgen. Nobody is debating here that devs take better use out the machines later in the consoles life. But not even trying like MS is doing is definitely garante to get lesser results. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

sales2099 on 11 February 2020
goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Ya that’s some nice mental gymnastics you doing. Comparing Game Pass...a service designed around traditional games at insane value to Kinect....a casual games peripheral. Bravo.

Im finally glad I’ve been having this discussion for over a week cause now I feel amazing going into next gen. Losing made MS hungry and now they giving us their best out the gate.

Where as Sony has zero motivation to give gamers their best out the gate...why should they? They won by a landslide and Sony has a habit of being arrogant when they on top.  Historically PS4 exclusives (that weren’t cross gen) didn’t make the most of the console nor were their best quality games. Ironically their best game will likely be Last of Us 2...a cross gen title. 

Sony forced Nintendo to do things differently since 2006 and now they forcing MS to try new things. Cross gen has its pros and cons but it’s better then Sony giving you their B tier games at launch because they expect you to buy PS for the brand name alone. Also them not giving you day 1 access to their exclusives because they want you to be good fans and give them more money upfront. XB1 losing never felt this good :)

Look, I get it. You love Game Pass. Hell, playing Gears 4 and 5 for $1 was a great deal for me as well. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying nobody is going to pick the Series X over Sony's AAA exclusives because it has GP. It's a nice bonus but that's it. And it's weird that it seems to be MS's focus, just like it was weird when TV and Kinect were the focus during the Xone reveal in 2013.

If you want to make more assumptions then fine man. Sony is lazy, MS is hungry. And all the ps5 exclusive launch titles will be B tier games as Sony expects people to buy crappy games and their $500 console just because of brand loyalty... You say MS's strategy has its pros and it cons, so please enlighten me. What are the pro's for you as a gamer, who will probably rush to get the Series X at launch? I can totally understand the pro's for MS from a business perspective or for people who can't afford a next gen console at launch. But as a gamer who is excited about next gen, I'm getting less and less excited about the Series X every time Phil makes another statement. 

You still act like GP is a feature like Kinect (absurd) that takes away from its 14 studios making games.....when the whole point is that they give access to all of MSs games. It in no way detracts from what gamers want nor what games MS is making. 

You made assumptions first....not nice when someone swings the pendulum back at you. Sony has every reason to not give you their best at launch, nor will they make the most of the hardware. Where as I know I’m getting the best at launch. 
Sony unveiled the font and logo...with no console reveal and no games. MS showed the Series X and Hellblade 2. So ya...I have every reason to think Sony is full of themselves and expect you to get excited over the brand alone. Over a font and logo. Cmon.

You want pros of buying a Series X? Fine, though you don’t have to agree you just acknowledge that there are people that my points apply to. 

They want the custom Halo edition console (me). They want the best versions of 1st party games because they don’t want to settle for less. They want the latest console purely as an early tech adopter. They want the most power (which they will get from 3rd party and 1st party for 90% of the gen). 

There you go. Remember not all gamers are early adopters. But thank you again for reminding everyone just how bad Sony’s launches are and making me by comparison extremely excited to see what a hungry MS can do :)

Last edited by sales2099 - on 11 February 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Conina on 11 February 2020
eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:

Knack: Metacritic 54

Killzone Shadowfall: 73

Infamous Second Sun: 80

Drive club: 71

The Order 1886: 63

Now imaging how worst could they have been were there to be crossgen. Nobody is debating here that devs take better use out the machines later in the consoles life.

Now imagine how much better all these games could have been with a year more development time instead of rushing them out half-baked to satisfy the early adopters.



sales2099 on 11 February 2020
eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:

Koi

Knack: Metacritic 54

Killzone Shadowfall: 73

Infamous Second Sun: 80

Drive club: 71

The Order 1886: 63

These are the 1st party “true exclusives” Sony released in the same time frame that Xbox would do its cross gen initiative. Ya.....so much quality here. Real heavy hitters that gamers mention in the same sentence as GOW, Spider-Man and Uncharted 4. 

So really the argument is that in the same time frame this upcoming gen, Sony will get off 3-5 exclusives but if history is any indication, they won’t be their best and won’t make the best use of the hardware. 

Where as Xbox is giving us their best. Halo is a 5 year developed game instead of 3, Forza 8 will be 3 years instead of the usual 2. Ironically the best PS5 early exclusive will be the cross gen Last of Us 2 ;)

Now imaging how worst could they have been were there to be crossgen. Nobody is debating here that devs take better use out the machines later in the consoles life. But not even trying like MS is doing is definitely garante to get lesser results. 

“Not even trying”...so overall we all can admit that neither company makes the most use at launch. Making the entire argument against Xbox null and void. Thank you. 

Maybe they would have been better cross gen if Sony spent less time “pushing the consoles ability” (lol) and focus more on quality control. Perspectives work both ways  ;)



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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goopy20 on 11 February 2020
sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

Look, I get it. You love Game Pass. Hell, playing Gears 4 and 5 for $1 was a great deal for me as well. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying nobody is going to pick the Series X over Sony's AAA exclusives because it has GP. It's a nice bonus but that's it. And it's weird that it seems to be MS's focus, just like it was weird when TV and Kinect were the focus during the Xone reveal in 2013.

If you want to make more assumptions then fine man. Sony is lazy, MS is hungry. And all the ps5 exclusive launch titles will be B tier games as Sony expects people to buy crappy games and their $500 console just because of brand loyalty... You say MS's strategy has its pros and it cons, so please enlighten me. What are the pro's for you as a gamer, who will probably rush to get the Series X at launch? I can totally understand the pro's for MS from a business perspective or for people who can't afford a next gen console at launch. But as a gamer who is excited about next gen, I'm getting less and less excited about the Series X every time Phil makes another statement. 

You still act like GP is a feature like Kinect (absurd) that takes away from its 14 studios making games.....when the whole point is that they give access to all of MSs games. It in no way detracts from what gamers want nor what games MS is making. 

You made assumptions first....not nice when someone swings the pendulum back at you. Sony has every reason to not give you their best at launch, nor will they make the most of the hardware. Where as I know I’m getting the best at launch. 
Sony unveiled the font and logo...with no console reveal and no games. MS showed the Series X and Hellblade 2. So ya...I have every reason to think Sony is full of themselves and expect you to get excited over the brand alone. Over a font and logo. Cmon.

You want pros of buying a Series X? Fine, though you don’t have to agree you just acknowledge that there are people that my points apply to. 

They want the custom Halo edition console (me). They want the best versions of 1st party games because they don’t want to settle for less. They want the latest console purely as an early tech adopter. They want the most power (which they will get from 3rd party and 1st party for 90% of the gen). 

There you go. Remember not all gamers are early adopters. But thank you again for reminding everyone just how bad Sony’s launches are and making me by comparison extremely excited to see what a hungry MS can do :)

Game pass is meant to reach as many players as possible and all of MS's exclusives will be on GP from day one. What does that tell you about the hardware they're targeting with their exclusives?

Your whole defense is based on the assumption that Sony will have crappy exclusives at launch, instead of what MS is bringing to the table. If you do care about having the most powerful console, then how come you're fine with them not even trying to push it with all this cross gen and game pass crap? 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 11 February 2020

HollyGamer on 11 February 2020
sales2099 said:
HollyGamer said:

Glad they are move on and change for better, while Xbox still on the past.  Also that's not "crossgen" instead an old port :) :) :)  

Lol I think you missed the point. Cross gen, ports.....it’s the same game that can be done on both generations. 

Knack: 54

Killzone Shadowfall: 73

Infamous Second Sun: 80

Drive club: 71

The Order 1886: 63

Lets see...knack just a bad game. Killzone Shadowfall a notable drop in quality from its predecessors. But hey it squeezed 100% out of PS4 hardware so it’s ok right???

Infamous SS could be easily downgraded for PS3 if they wanted. Drive Club was plagued with online issues. The Order has some controversy with fake 1080p and was way too short. 

Point being these titles weren’t their best and they still couldn’t get the most out of the system at launch. Quality will always speak louder. I just hope Sony doesn’t do the same bait and switch tactics for the first 2 years. 

Cross gen are not port neither backward compatible games.

Cross gen are games like Battlefield 4, Forza Horizon 2, Assassin Creed Black Flag, WatchDog, Fifa series, Titanfall, Need For Speed Rivals , War Thunder, Warframes.

All games you have mentioned above can be downgraded to run on PS3  if it's made and develop using PS4 as base. But it will not look great and play great on PS4 if it's develop as Cross gen in mind.

There is what we call limitation of base hardware on development goal. Certain aspect on games will be limited by base hardware/ targeted hardware. But it will be different then porting it latter and downgrade latter  rather than making it as cross gen on mind (Switch case on some tittle ). And also it's not worth the sacrifice, time, money, and man power.   

For example if Knack, Infamous Second son. and all title that you have mentioned above  were developed as cross gen, then developer will targeted both PS3 and PS4. It will not look good for both , yes even it will not look like what we have today. Developer ambition, goal, and tech will be halt by PS3 as base model. 

Title like KIllzone Shadow Fall are developed using PS4 architecture and the result are still the best engine of 8th generation that power Horizon Zero Dawn and Death Stranding / It wouldn't be possible if it's develop using PS3 or both. Certain graphic pipeline are not available on PS3 and certain logic code cannot be made it it's target both. But if you asked can it be ported down to PS3, the the answer is yes it can and it can be downgrade.

I f i was Xbox Head , i will make all title for Xbox Series X first and foremost and develop using Xbox Series X hardware in mind, then ported to Xbox One family latter after 2 or 3 years. So the ambition, dream, goal and next gen tech can fully utilize on Xbox X rather then hampered by Xbox One. I want every team develop an engine and new engine base of tech available on Ray Tracing and SSD and Ryzen AVX 256 and fast RAM . So the base games will be the result of optimization of the best hardware. So the port for Xbox One will be even better. 

Last edited by HollyGamer - on 11 February 2020

LudicrousSpeed on 11 February 2020
goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
Basically you guys have pummeled him with logic and facts and now the goal posts are shifting to “well Xbox is in this precarious position they really have to hit a grand slam!!”.

Why are you still referencing this two year next gen window when according to the interview you’re referencing he says one to two years which means at worst, the end of 2021. Aka one year of next gen. If even that. One to two years could literally mean the end of this year 😆

Also PS3 was on pace to outsell 360 from day one. Sony put out a lot of good titles because Nintendo was beating them and they were coming off the PS2 which did way better. Yeah you should hope for a competitive next gen because otherwise we’ll get lazy Sony like we did this gen with way less first party stuff and less new IPs because they didn’t really need to do anything to beat Xbone and WiiU.

Also I don’t think anyone has really said Sony launch titles SUCK, just that they, like all launch titles, do nothing that really pushes the envelope. At least, recent launch titles. I think the DC is the last time we’ve had truly jaw dropping launch titles that really show we’ve entered a new generation.

The only facts we have is MS saying their 1st party games will be cross-gen for the next 1 or 2 years. And uncle Phil saying they have no wish to compete with Sony and Nintendo anymore because Amazon and Google are now apparently their main competitors. Everything else is all assumptions, like the first wave of ps5 exclusives being nothing special and won't take advantage of of the new tech. 

You should just ask yourself this. Does, MS saying their 1st party games will be cross gen for the first 1 or 2 years, sound like a good or a bad thing to you? I mean if you're not planning on buying a next gen console in the first 2 years anyway, it's not bad news at all. However, if you do plan on buying a series X early on, then tell me you wouldn't be disappointed if Halo Infinite turns out looking like a current gen remaster. Especially when something like Horizon Zero Dawn 2 comes out and does have true next gen ai, physics, geometry and whatnot. Not saying that will happen, but we do know for a fact that both companies have totally different strategies going in. So 1, 2 or 5 Years of cross gen games, it doesn't matter. What matters is if you think it's a good or a bad thing to begin with. And seeing how defensive some people are getting, I already know the answer.   

Hopefully you'll prove me wrong but the way MS's been talking reminds me so much of when MS was trying to shove Kinect down everyone's throat with the 360 and then taking it to another stupendous level when they announced the X1. Which was pitched as a box that connects the whole living room with Kinect and also plays games. I will just leave this here as a reminder of what happened the last time MS started blabbering about their services, instead of focusing on just launching a gaming console: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

The goal posts continue to shift. Don’t tire yourself out now, there’s a lot of time before next gen. 

How strange that you’re complaining about this supposed lack of games from Microsoft when everything you’re upset about, be it GamePass, xCloud, or cross gen, all revolve around games. Traditional, “real” gaming. To compare it to Kinect or the TVTVTV Xbone reveal is just a massive reach, one you’re only making because your main arguments are weak and have been picked apart. 

To answer your question, if MS releases cross gen games for the first year of XSX (and that’s all they said it might be, the first year of next gen, so you don’t have to keep throwing out first two years or five years or whatever), I’ll be good either way because I own a Scorpio and will own a Series X. 

There’s a big difference between cross gen games for a max of one year into next gen versus five years.



Pemalite on 11 February 2020
HollyGamer said:

I want every team develop an engine and new engine base of tech available on Ray Tracing and SSD and Ryzen AVX 256 and fast RAM . So the base games will be the result of optimization of the best hardware. So the port for Xbox One will be even better. 

Jaguar has AVX 256. - It does so by double pumping the 128bit AVX units.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/6976/amds-jaguar-architecture-the-cpu-powering-xbox-one-playstation-4-kabini-temash/2

Xbox One, Playstation 4 can also do Ray Tracing, infact, some games already do via path traced global illumination.





www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

HollyGamer on 11 February 2020
Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

I want every team develop an engine and new engine base of tech available on Ray Tracing and SSD and Ryzen AVX 256 and fast RAM . So the base games will be the result of optimization of the best hardware. So the port for Xbox One will be even better. 

Jaguar has AVX 256. - It does so by double pumping the 128bit AVX units.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/6976/amds-jaguar-architecture-the-cpu-powering-xbox-one-playstation-4-kabini-temash/2

Xbox One, Playstation 4 can also do Ray Tracing, infact, some games already do via path traced global illumination.

PS3 also can do ray tracing. But that's not the point. But i guess if you want developing tetris with Ray Tracing that shouldn't be a problem.