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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Eurogamer: PS5 and Xbox Series X Spec Leak.

Mr Puggsly said:
derpysquirtle64 said:

I still don't understand why do you operate with all this "unrealistic" stuff when everyone else in the industry does this except Microsoft. Sony, Nintendo, Valve, they all spend lots of resources to expand to new markets even though it probably won't work. But it does work for them I guess just because they really try. MS also was good in terms of it in 360 era, all they had to do is just continue doing the same stuff and of course not having the disastrous launch of Xbox One. It is really stupid to say that for company like Nintendo it is realistic but unrealistic for Microsoft which is way bigger and has lots of resources to do so. As I've already said, relying on just selling their own games through Steam in some markets and basically not give a thing about trying to support Xbox platform there is a huge missed opportunity and a lots of revenue lost. It is just impossible to gain as much money as they can from their own service through Steam XGS games sales. Because also you should keep in mind that 30% cut that Steam takes and regional prices (half of console game price or even less) in the countries where Steam usually dominates (basically, the territories, that you propose to give up and not even try there). And yeah, if we take Japan as an example, I think that in this case, it would be even easier for MS to get them interested in Xbox platform and services thatn in games like Halo, Gears, etc. on Steam.

Nintendo and Sony aren't that relevant beyond the NA, Europe and Japan.

According to this site about 4/5 of PS4 sales are just in the NA, Europe and Japan. For Switch is more like 7/8. For X1, 8/9. Ultimately, a vast majority of all console sales are just in three regions.

It absolutely makes sense for Valve to focus internationally given much of that fucking market is using a PC and Windows. This is why I keep saying MS putting its games on PC is a great way to get more international sales that Xbox consoles never could.

I honestly only read the first sentence because that's all it took for me to realize you have no clue what I am saying.

EDIT: Just to put it in perspective. According to this site, Xbox One has sold 29.1 million in NA. While PS4, X1 and Switch have sold 29.32 million in "Rest of World."

Okay, if you decided to bring up VGC numbers, let's break down all the PS and Xbox consoles then:

PS1 - 9.04m ROTW (102.5m total) - 8.8% of the global

PS2 - 25.57m ROTW (157.68m total) - 16.2% of the global (almost double of what PS1 did)

PS3 - 12.53m ROTW (87.41m total) - 14.3% of the global (a bit down from PS2 but it was very expensive from the start and not as easy to pirate games as PS2)

PS4 - 18.64m ROTW (105.95m total) - 17.5% of the global (even better than PS2. A lot of sales made outside of the markets you mentioned)

So, with PS consoles, it is quite easy to see that Sony's work is paying off and the second - they are probably losing some marketshare to PC platform in the markets that you claim to be so focused on console gaming. Basically, the opposite of what you see to claim. US, Europe, Japan adopting PC, while ROTW adopting consoles (PC as well of course). But there is definitely a market for consoles in ROTW. And PS consoles sales confirm this.

Okay, let's move on to Xbox:

Xbox - 1.18m ROTW (24.65m total) - 4.8% of the global

Xbox 360 - 9.16m ROTW (85.8m total) - 10.7% of the global (more than double of what original did)

Xbox One - 4.69m ROTW (46.3m total) - 10.1% of the global (almost the same as 360 even though all games are on PC now and MS fucked up launch in these territories so badly)

So, it all bring us to 10% of the marketshare in the markets that you propose for MS to ignore. I don't even want to try to explain to you that with a better approach these numbers can rise even higher. But 10% is quite a big chunk of the market that is hard to ignore, so your argument about abandoning such markets and not taking them seriously is totally incorrect.



 

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goopy20 said:
DonFerrari said:

Seems like the story is a little different.

If Rare was independent they would have closed due to a big streak of low selling games, MS kept they alive. Also they were the ones that wanted to try something different and asked to work on Kinect and MS allowed.

Rare was hot shit before MS bought them in 2002 and MS ruined them basically so Nintendo couldn't have their games. Just read this if you don't believe me.

"Rare was always looking East at Japanese and Nintendo's games in particular, with their open-hearted childlike vibrancy and playfulness," explains Hollis. "Meanwhile, Microsoft had a US-centric style to its games, a flair of machismo and testosterone. For the first decade after the Microsoft sale the major problem for the creativity of the studio has been direction. Looking in from the outside it felt as if neither Microsoft or Rare could work out where it was headed."

From the inside the studio's gates, too, the changes to Rare introduced by Microsoft tampered with the recipe of the company's success, leaving teams feeling disorientated, and even downcast.

"For me personally, the atmosphere became much more stifling and a lot more stressful," he says. "There was an overall feeling that you weren't really in control of what you were doing and that you weren't really trusted either.

"There was also a gradual introduction of certain Microsoft behaviours that crept into the way we did things: lots more meetings, performance reviews and far more regard for your position within the company," he said."

Lets face it, MS isn't great with handling their studios. Of the 10 studios MS has acquired over the past 20 years, five have been closed, and two are still around but separated.

Well, MS definitely wasn't great with handling first party studios in the past, but I wouldn't put the blame for Rare's decline on them. I think it has more to do with lots of key stuff leaving even before MS acquisition. Just everything lied up in the way that the next game after lots of key stuff leaving was already published under Microsoft so it is easy to put all the blame on them.



 

goopy20 said:
DonFerrari said:

You are putting the blame on the wrong horse.

Nintendo had the opportunity to buy the studio (they had 50% at the time) but weren't interested so MS gone and bought all.

Taking the opinion of a single disgruntled ex-employee is hardly the way to look history.

I'm no defender of MS and I know they had made several bad decisions and studio management was among the main for me. I just wanted to correct the two or three misconceptions you had over it.

1440p internal resolution sure, but it is upscaled to 4k to show on the screen (I have alluded to that), and yes the level of fidelity of PS4Pro/X1X is certainly very good for most people. The problem I have with the strategy people say MS will go for (let's dismiss Lockhart at 1080p) is that a Lockhart at 299 and XSX at 499 competing against PS5 399 with the first being 100 cheaper but less than half power and the other being 30% more powerful for 100 more will make PS5 look like an incredible deal on the middle ground. But sure I can be wrong on it.

If KA was the bundled and KS not them I stand corrected.

Killzone is fairly competent shooter, but yes Sony doesn't have anything of the appraisal of Halo or Gears exclusive. I don't like FPS but I agree Sony needs one to keep the diversity of offering.

I agree that Sony doesn't have a great exclusive FPS. I actually played the hell out of Planetside 2, though. That game had amazing potential if you ask me. Halo 1 was revolutionary for its time and it's still a good fps, it just lost its appeal a bit over the years. Gears was also great when it just came out but after 5 parts, I think the novelty of chainsawing aliens in half has run its course and there isn't much of a story to tell anymore. 

We will see what happens next gen, but my guess is that Sony will come up with more new ip's. Some will be great and some will probably suck, but at least Sony has the balls to try new things. You have to admit that pitching games like Death Stranding or Dreams to MS would be pretty damn hard.  

MS has funded a bunch of new IPs this gen in various genres.

Off the top of my head, Cuphead, Ori, Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive, Ashen, Lococycle, a Panzer Dragoon clone, Recore, Ryse, Project Spark and Sea of Thieves.

Those games vary from meh to great. I think the real problem MS hasnt created enough AAA content that feels really ambitious. If MS made a couple notable open world games this gen, I think people would feel better about MS's 1st party lineup. However, 3rd parties made a lot of notable content like that.

I like that Sony creates big AAA story driven games, but I am a little bored of them constantly making that. It makes me yearn for action and gameplay focused stuff like Gears and Halo, or even Crackdown 3. However, Sony didnt have to make great shooters relying on 3rd parties. This gen Sony has bundled Star Wars BF, CoD and Destiny.

Anyway, I dont just care about new IPs. Taking an old IP making something great out of that can be satisfying as well.



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derpysquirtle64 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Nintendo and Sony aren't that relevant beyond the NA, Europe and Japan.

According to this site about 4/5 of PS4 sales are just in the NA, Europe and Japan. For Switch is more like 7/8. For X1, 8/9. Ultimately, a vast majority of all console sales are just in three regions.

It absolutely makes sense for Valve to focus internationally given much of that fucking market is using a PC and Windows. This is why I keep saying MS putting its games on PC is a great way to get more international sales that Xbox consoles never could.

I honestly only read the first sentence because that's all it took for me to realize you have no clue what I am saying.

EDIT: Just to put it in perspective. According to this site, Xbox One has sold 29.1 million in NA. While PS4, X1 and Switch have sold 29.32 million in "Rest of World."

Okay, if you decided to bring up VGC numbers, let's break down all the PS and Xbox consoles then:

PS1 - 9.04m ROTW (102.5m total) - 8.8% of the global

PS2 - 25.57m ROTW (157.68m total) - 16.2% of the global (almost double of what PS1 did)

PS3 - 12.53m ROTW (87.41m total) - 14.3% of the global (a bit down from PS2 but it was very expensive from the start and not as easy to pirate games as PS2)

PS4 - 18.64m ROTW (105.95m total) - 17.5% of the global (even better than PS2. A lot of sales made outside of the markets you mentioned)

So, with PS consoles, it is quite easy to see that Sony's work is paying off and the second - they are probably losing some marketshare to PC platform in the markets that you claim to be so focused on console gaming. Basically, the opposite of what you see to claim. US, Europe, Japan adopting PC, while ROTW adopting consoles (PC as well of course). But there is definitely a market for consoles in ROTW. And PS consoles sales confirm this.

Okay, let's move on to Xbox:

Xbox - 1.18m ROTW (24.65m total) - 4.8% of the global

Xbox 360 - 9.16m ROTW (85.8m total) - 10.7% of the global (more than double of what original did)

Xbox One - 4.69m ROTW (46.3m total) - 10.1% of the global (almost the same as 360 even though all games are on PC now and MS fucked up launch in these territories so badly)

So, it all bring us to 10% of the marketshare in the markets that you propose for MS to ignore. I don't even want to try to explain to you that with a better approach these numbers can rise even higher. But 10% is quite a big chunk of the market that is hard to ignore, so your argument about abandoning such markets and not taking them seriously is totally incorrect.

I never actually said MS should ignore or abandon those markets, I just wouldnt enocurage MS to pour significant resources there. Instead, keep making great content intended for the west, make competitively priced hardware like Lockhart and hope the best elsewhere. More importantly moves like that could help them thrive in the west.

For the most part it just looks like Sony took MS's marketshare from last gen. It hasnt actually grown significantly. Also, Sony is just making games the west enjoys and hopes for the best elsewhere.

Lastly, I think we all agree putting Xbox games on PC means more people will play their games. If many around the world are gaming on PCs, then porting games to PC should boost sales. That's hardly ignoring or abandoning hose markets.



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Mr Puggsly said:
goopy20 said:

I agree that Sony doesn't have a great exclusive FPS. I actually played the hell out of Planetside 2, though. That game had amazing potential if you ask me. Halo 1 was revolutionary for its time and it's still a good fps, it just lost its appeal a bit over the years. Gears was also great when it just came out but after 5 parts, I think the novelty of chainsawing aliens in half has run its course and there isn't much of a story to tell anymore. 

We will see what happens next gen, but my guess is that Sony will come up with more new ip's. Some will be great and some will probably suck, but at least Sony has the balls to try new things. You have to admit that pitching games like Death Stranding or Dreams to MS would be pretty damn hard.  

MS has funded a bunch of new IPs this gen in various genres.

Off the top of my head, Cuphead, Ori, Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive, Ashen, Lococycle, a Panzer Dragoon clone, Recore, Ryse, Project Spark and Sea of Thieves.

Those games vary from meh to great. I think the real problem MS hasnt created enough AAA content that feels really ambitious. If MS made a couple notable open world games this gen, I think people would feel better about MS's 1st party lineup. However, 3rd parties made a lot of notable content like that.

I like that Sony creates big AAA story driven games, but I am a little bored of them constantly making that. It makes me yearn for action and gameplay focused stuff like Gears and Halo, or even Crackdown 3. However, Sony didnt have to make great shooters relying on 3rd parties. This gen Sony has bundled Star Wars BF, CoD and Destiny.

Anyway, I dont just care about new IPs. Taking an old IP making something great out of that can be satisfying as well.

MS really need to give a second chance to some new ips of this generation.

Recore, Quantum Break, Crimson Dragon and Sunset Overdrive are solid games, a bigger budget or some extra polish could make them good AAA game for next generation and ad good variety to Xbox games.

*I know sunset overdride 2 is now imposible in Xbox. Is just an example.

Sorry for my bad english.



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Mr Puggsly said:
goopy20 said:

I agree that Sony doesn't have a great exclusive FPS. I actually played the hell out of Planetside 2, though. That game had amazing potential if you ask me. Halo 1 was revolutionary for its time and it's still a good fps, it just lost its appeal a bit over the years. Gears was also great when it just came out but after 5 parts, I think the novelty of chainsawing aliens in half has run its course and there isn't much of a story to tell anymore. 

We will see what happens next gen, but my guess is that Sony will come up with more new ip's. Some will be great and some will probably suck, but at least Sony has the balls to try new things. You have to admit that pitching games like Death Stranding or Dreams to MS would be pretty damn hard.  

MS has funded a bunch of new IPs this gen in various genres.

Off the top of my head, Cuphead, Ori, Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive, Ashen, Lococycle, a Panzer Dragoon clone, Recore, Ryse, Project Spark and Sea of Thieves.

Those games vary from meh to great. I think the real problem MS hasnt created enough AAA content that feels really ambitious. If MS made a couple notable open world games this gen, I think people would feel better about MS's 1st party lineup. However, 3rd parties made a lot of notable content like that.

I like that Sony creates big AAA story driven games, but I am a little bored of them constantly making that. It makes me yearn for action and gameplay focused stuff like Gears and Halo, or even Crackdown 3. However, Sony didnt have to make great shooters relying on 3rd parties. This gen Sony has bundled Star Wars BF, CoD and Destiny.

Anyway, I dont just care about new IPs. Taking an old IP making something great out of that can be satisfying as well.

So anything that is not a multiplayer shooter is a story driven game with boring gameplay? I see.

So games like spiderman, god of war, horizon, bloodbourne, sekiro, infamous, persona all fall under the same category for you? Boring gameplay and only long movies. But sony is saved cuz cod , battlefield and destiny is on the ps4. The only real gameplay experiences. 

If you can only see that one genre of games to entertaining you, then yea, xbox all the way for you. discussion over. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Loneken said:

MS really need to give a second chance to some new ips of this generation.

Recore, Quantum Break, Crimson Dragon and Sunset Overdrive are solid games, a bigger budget or some extra polish could make them good AAA game for next generation and ad good variety to Xbox games.

*I know sunset overdride 2 is now imposible in Xbox. Is just an example.

Sorry for my bad english.

I didnt play Recore much but I liked a lot of what it was doing. It looks like like 6th gen era platformer which we dont see much anymore. Seems the game is a bit polarizing so I need to really play it before having an opinion.

Quantum Break will not have a sequel in my opinion. I think it was an interesting experiment that may have been a failure. Its a fun and short game, so I may replay it. Alan Wake 2 makes more sense but still risky. If you compare it something like Uncharted it looks like a shallow game, but its better than something like 1886.

I played Crimson Dragon a little. It seemed fine as a Panzer Dragoon clone. I suspect it got low scores for pushing microtansactions and it didnt look like a next gen game.

Sunset Overdrive was great but that belongs to Sony now. My guess is PS5 will get a remaster and they will determine if a sequel is ever worth doing. That is the Spiderman studio right now.

Shame we didnt get a new Fable or Scalebound, might have made the lineup look a liitle better.

People ignore MS took a stab at new IPs, there was some success there. There was success in old IPs as well. I think they will fix mistakes made this gen and push at more notable content with their new studios. As a Game Pass user I look forward to trying just about everything they release as well.



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eva01beserk said:
Mr Puggsly said:

MS has funded a bunch of new IPs this gen in various genres.

Off the top of my head, Cuphead, Ori, Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive, Ashen, Lococycle, a Panzer Dragoon clone, Recore, Ryse, Project Spark and Sea of Thieves.

Those games vary from meh to great. I think the real problem MS hasnt created enough AAA content that feels really ambitious. If MS made a couple notable open world games this gen, I think people would feel better about MS's 1st party lineup. However, 3rd parties made a lot of notable content like that.

I like that Sony creates big AAA story driven games, but I am a little bored of them constantly making that. It makes me yearn for action and gameplay focused stuff like Gears and Halo, or even Crackdown 3. However, Sony didnt have to make great shooters relying on 3rd parties. This gen Sony has bundled Star Wars BF, CoD and Destiny.

Anyway, I dont just care about new IPs. Taking an old IP making something great out of that can be satisfying as well.

So anything that is not a multiplayer shooter is a story driven game with boring gameplay? I see.

So games like spiderman, god of war, horizon, bloodbourne, sekiro, infamous, persona all fall under the same category for you? Boring gameplay and only long movies. But sony is saved cuz cod , battlefield and destiny is on the ps4. The only real gameplay experiences. 

If you can only see that one genre of games to entertaining you, then yea, xbox all the way for you. discussion over. 

Oh calm down, you know what I am talking about. Games like Spiderman, God of War, Horizon, The Last of Us, Days Gone, Uncharted 4, 1886 and Detroit have a very heavy story focus or use a large world to pad out the game. I play very little open world games now because it has become tedious.

All of these games sell well so I dont blame Sony for going that route. But I am kinda bored of it and the most active games generally arent story driven.

Technically Infamous:SS should be on that list but its exceptional for it exploration and combat in my opinion. I also really enjoyed Uncharted Lost Legacy for being more action focused.

Bloodborne and Sekiro(spelling?) are very gameplay focused in comparison to other games mentioned.

Exclusives arent the only content people play, in fact people mostly play non-exclusive content on PS and Xbox. You can get games in many genres on both platforms.

I was suggesting if PS4 didnt have so many notable 3rd party shooters, they might attempt to make a good one. They only made like one this gen. PS3 had considerably more attempts and some were not bad.

But lastly, I like MS and Sony doing different experiences. I certainly dont want both making making games focused on walking and talking.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:
eva01beserk said:

So anything that is not a multiplayer shooter is a story driven game with boring gameplay? I see.

So games like spiderman, god of war, horizon, bloodbourne, sekiro, infamous, persona all fall under the same category for you? Boring gameplay and only long movies. But sony is saved cuz cod , battlefield and destiny is on the ps4. The only real gameplay experiences. 

If you can only see that one genre of games to entertaining you, then yea, xbox all the way for you. discussion over. 

Oh calm down, you know what I am talking about. Games like Spiderman, God of War, Horizon, The Last of Us, Days Gone, Uncharted 4, 1886 and Detroit have a very heavy story focus or use a large world to pad out the game. I play very little open world games now because it has become tedious.

All of these games sell well so I dont blame Sony for going that route. But I am kinda bored of it and the most active games generally arent story driven.

Technically Infamous:SS should be on that list but its exceptional for it exploration and combat in my opinion. I also really enjoyed Uncharted Lost Legacy for being more action focused.

Bloodborne and Sekiro(spelling?) are very gameplay focused in comparison to other games mentioned.

Exclusives arent the only content people play, in fact people mostly play non-exclusive content on PS and Xbox. You can get games in many genres on both platforms.

I was suggesting if PS4 didnt have so many notable 3rd party shooters, they might attempt to make a good one. They only made like one this gen. PS3 had considerably more attempts and some were not bad.

But lastly, I like MS and Sony doing different experiences. I certainly dont want both making making games focused on walking and talking.

I think it's not so much about the number of exclusives both platforms launched, it's more about the risks Sony is willing to take with their 1st party studios compared to MS. Sony lets almost all their major studios build new AAA ip's, while MS build 2 brand new studios just to keep Halo and Gears alive and the rest of their exclusives are mostly Indy or small budget projects. After this console generation I also expect a lot more 3rd party developers like Team Ninja and From will be willing to do a Sony exclusive compared to MS. 



Mr Puggsly said:
eva01beserk said:

So anything that is not a multiplayer shooter is a story driven game with boring gameplay? I see.

So games like spiderman, god of war, horizon, bloodbourne, sekiro, infamous, persona all fall under the same category for you? Boring gameplay and only long movies. But sony is saved cuz cod , battlefield and destiny is on the ps4. The only real gameplay experiences. 

If you can only see that one genre of games to entertaining you, then yea, xbox all the way for you. discussion over. 

Oh calm down, you know what I am talking about. Games like Spiderman, God of War, Horizon, The Last of Us, Days Gone, Uncharted 4, 1886 and Detroit have a very heavy story focus or use a large world to pad out the game. I play very little open world games now because it has become tedious.

All of these games sell well so I dont blame Sony for going that route. But I am kinda bored of it and the most active games generally arent story driven.

Technically Infamous:SS should be on that list but its exceptional for it exploration and combat in my opinion. I also really enjoyed Uncharted Lost Legacy for being more action focused.

Bloodborne and Sekiro(spelling?) are very gameplay focused in comparison to other games mentioned.

Exclusives arent the only content people play, in fact people mostly play non-exclusive content on PS and Xbox. You can get games in many genres on both platforms.

I was suggesting if PS4 didnt have so many notable 3rd party shooters, they might attempt to make a good one. They only made like one this gen. PS3 had considerably more attempts and some were not bad.

But lastly, I like MS and Sony doing different experiences. I certainly dont want both making making games focused on walking and talking.

Your almost saying that if a game has a good narrative, its story focus and the gameplay can be dismissed. Cuz aside of detroit and the oder 1886, all thouse games had amazing gamplay. That games like god of war had S+ story, cinematic, music and all that, dosent take away from the incredible hack and slash it still is, has a great open world to explore, many unique side content. And lets all say the rest was just an A+. Are we really to say that because the narrative is S thats the only driving factor of the game or why people would buy it or why reviewers put it on a pedestal? 

I never claimed people only play exclusives, maybe if for a multi console owner, you will play most games on your console of choise regardless of how powerful it is. Thats something people forget, where your friends are is tends to be another great influence of where to play multiplats. The secondary console will be an exclusive only machine. 

I somewhat agree with you there on the 3rd party shooters. But I mostly think is more because the market is saturated in that department. And most of them tend to be live services so the biggest are always active the entire year. One you need to have a great product to break the ranks then keep suporting, I think the resources could be better spent on multiple other projects. And second why compete with your partners? I dont blame MS here as that is the biggest genre at the moment and most likely makes the most money from loot boxes and season passes and what ever. SO yea, glad they choose what route to follow.



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