akuma587 said: FreeTalkLive said: Of course Sony copied Nintendo. They copied Nintendo with the PS1 and they are coping Nintendo again. The more new products and ideas Nintendo comes out with, the better. It is good that Sony and MS copy Nintendo because it makes for better games.  Because obviously Nintendo never benefitted any from copying Sony and MS, such as adding on online service and moving away from cartridge based games.

Nintendo actually hired Sony to create a CD-ROM system add on for the SNES called the Playstation. Ken Kutargi was the guy who designed the sound card for the SNES. The first mass console to move away from Cartridges was the Turbo Grafx-16 with the CD-ROM add on than the Turbo Duo(PC Engine in Japan). Than there was teh Sega CD and then there was the Jaguar/CD(which had like 2 games) and 3D0 as well as the Amiga CD-32 this all leaving out PCs and the CD-I and the fact these consoles are within. So I wouldn't exactly say Nintendo copied them but that Sony went with an idea they rejected(It was an issue of control over publishing with load times as true excuse). Growth to DVD was a natural extension as will Blu-Ray will be soon(but not now it was too pricey at release and was not needed and still not needed to make a large game).

 Online service had been done for a long time before MS entered the market. Nintend had the first Online system back in the 1980's and had extensively planned online features for the 64DD vaporware before the XBOX was a twinkle in MSs eye. On the PC front games like EQ and Ultima Online and MS's own Asheron's call stood out far and above the MUDS and laid the groundwork and forsight for MS to intergrate a full online network on the console system. Going online was not MS's big innovation it was the service it bought about.

 PC gaming was the first true 3d gaming than followed bleakly by the Jaguar and even 3DO.

 

BTW SSJ12 the reason that the PS3 had 4 buttons on the back of the controller is that the bottom two shoulder buttons were designed to move back and forth in 3D space. Than Nintendo reintroduced and  standardized the analog stick for home gaming consoles and Sony flinched and added two as an after thought like they did with motion controls. They added two because sony did design a mean dual analog flight stick a year before and they intergrated the dual controls for BC with games designed for that. The button click and other features were designed to avoid patents. But they outright stole from Immersion witht eh rumble.

akuma587 said: FreeTalkLive said: Of course Sony copied Nintendo. They copied Nintendo with the PS1 and they are coping Nintendo again. The more new products and ideas Nintendo comes out with, the better. It is good that Sony and MS copy Nintendo because it makes for better games. Because obviously Nintendo never benefitted any from copying Sony and MS, such as adding on online service and moving away from cartridge based games.

Since Nintendo had online service on the SNES, I guess it didn't.  Wait, I am pretty sure the NES had an online like serivce, also.  Since neither Sony nor MS were 1st to produce non-cartridge based games, I am not sure where that came from either.

 

Phoenix_Wiight said: in a way yes, they copied things, but its not the first time anything like this happened. the ps3 didnt copy anything from the 360... if anything, the 360 was modeled after wat the ps3 would become

 Fanboy much? There are sufficient differences between the consoles to make discussion of "blatant copying" irrelevant.  Sure they take and try to improve on each others ideas, but that's life, and it happens in every industry.  They're just trying to minimize each others' comparative advantage while maximizing their own.  Remember competition breeds innovation so I couldn't care less if they rip each other off.  That way they're all forced to try harder to innovate.

Darc Requiem said: akuma587 said: FreeTalkLive said: Of course Sony copied Nintendo. They copied Nintendo with the PS1 and they are coping Nintendo again. The more new products and ideas Nintendo comes out with, the better. It is good that Sony and MS copy Nintendo because it makes for better games. Because obviously Nintendo never benefitted any from copying Sony and MS, such as adding on online service and moving away from cartridge based games. You do realized that NEC released the Turbo CD in 1989 right? You do also realize that Sega Net, first via the Saturn in Japan and later on as the Dreamcast's worldwide on-line service, preceded X-box Live right?

Sega Net was the 3rd online service, from what I remember.  Both SNES and Sega had online and there was another serivce before that.  Anyway, it is easy to tell that Nintendo is not copying anyone with online.  It had online before Sony even made games.  However, just because Nintendo did it several generations before MS, I wouldn't say MS is copying Nintendo with online because its service is very different.  However, MS copies Nintendo in several other ways and there is nothing wrong with that.  The more MS copies Nintendo, the better it is for consumers.

 

akuma587 said: FreeTalkLive said: Of course Sony copied Nintendo. They copied Nintendo with the PS1 and they are coping Nintendo again. The more new products and ideas Nintendo comes out with, the better. It is good that Sony and MS copy Nintendo because it makes for better games. Because obviously Nintendo never benefitted any from copying Sony and MS, such as adding on online service and moving away from cartridge based games.

Yup, then the PC copied Sony and Microsoft too, it realized that CD's and online were a good idea...oh, wait.

Lone_Canis_Lupus said: darconi said: Played_Out said: FreeTalkLive said: Of course Sony copied Nintendo. They copied Nintendo with the PS1 and they are coping Nintendo again. The more new products and ideas Nintendo comes out with, the better. It is good that Sony and MS copy Nintendo because it makes for better games. And Shigeru Miyamoto created the Heavens and the Earth in six days. @ ClaudeLv250 As has been pointed out on these boards many times before, Sony introduced analog controls on the PS before the N64 was released, so they can hardly be said to have copied the idea. Analog controls had been around for ages before this, but AFAIK Sony were the first to introduce the dual analog that is now standard.   Analog was around before but Nintendo was the first to make it a standard for videogaming. They took the big risk to introduce it as a main feature. Sony introduced analog controls for the PS way after Nintendo introduced it for the N64. Whether it was "released" before or after doesn't matter due to launch timings. All you have to do is look at the original PS controller and see that it had no analog stick at all. I hardly call adding a 2nd analog stick an innovation, its like adding a few more buttons to a controller, whoopee. So camera control isn't a big difference? Because the 2nd analog is totally used for the same purpose as the first all the time. It doesn't matter whether Nintendo was the first to use it as a main feature, it was around before then. You can't say Sony "copied" the analog idea from Nintendo when Nintendo "copied" it. Analogs are a standard now, it's hard to imagine gaming without them. Oh, how was risking adding it as a main feature a risk? "It's like adding a few more buttons to a controller, whoopee.", no big deal, right?

 Plenty of games had camera controls before the 2nd analog.  The ENTIRE N64/PSX/Saturn generation controlled cameras without an analog stick.  Are you seriously going to argue that the 2nd analog stick was anywhere near the revolution that the 1st one was?

The risk of adding something nobody else used to good effect and forcing everyone to make games using it was the risk.  Its the same reason why motion control on the wii works better than the sixaxis.  The wii was built using the motion control as its core function, just like the N64 was built using the analog stick as its main control.  That is the risk.  If motion control or analog control bombed, the console would've bombed.  Compare that to the sixaxis where its barely used in any games and nobody notices at all so if it failed, no risk to the console. 

CaptainPrefrences said: PS3 copied the guide button

 Let him know that the PSP has 'home' button. I guess, Microsoft copies Sony there by his logic, right?

ssj12 said: Sony has copied and improved on things but they were quite original on all their consoles and the PSP. The PS introduced the first dual-analog controller and an enhanced rumble experience, first fully 3D console. The PS2 introduced a DVD drive, that supported dual-layer DVDs, in consoles, movie playback, re-introduced network capabilities for online gaming. The PSP has enabled full media center capabilities in a handheld gaming device, first handheld to have an analog stick (i believe), full internet capabilities. The PS3 is the first console to support game modifications, first to allow an alternate OS to be installed, expanded media center capabilities, first console to have a full virtual world that works in sync with all console features, introduced Blu-ray as a game format, first to allow an upgradable HDD, and restandardized an HDD. Yes Nintendo has done many great things and firsts for the industry, same with SEGA, Atari, and every other company who made a console. Each has given us new ways to play or enhanced previous features.

What's a fully 3D console? Because we have an Atari 2600 in the closet and I'm pretty sure it's not a 2 dimensional machine. Unless you meant a console with 3D games? Because I'm pretty sure my SNES had a few of those as well.

 

darconi said: Lone_Canis_Lupus said: darconi said: Played_Out said: FreeTalkLive said: Of course Sony copied Nintendo. They copied Nintendo with the PS1 and they are coping Nintendo again. The more new products and ideas Nintendo comes out with, the better. It is good that Sony and MS copy Nintendo because it makes for better games. And Shigeru Miyamoto created the Heavens and the Earth in six days. @ ClaudeLv250 As has been pointed out on these boards many times before, Sony introduced analog controls on the PS before the N64 was released, so they can hardly be said to have copied the idea. Analog controls had been around for ages before this, but AFAIK Sony were the first to introduce the dual analog that is now standard.   Analog was around before but Nintendo was the first to make it a standard for videogaming. They took the big risk to introduce it as a main feature. Sony introduced analog controls for the PS way after Nintendo introduced it for the N64. Whether it was "released" before or after doesn't matter due to launch timings. All you have to do is look at the original PS controller and see that it had no analog stick at all. I hardly call adding a 2nd analog stick an innovation, its like adding a few more buttons to a controller, whoopee. So camera control isn't a big difference? Because the 2nd analog is totally used for the same purpose as the first all the time. It doesn't matter whether Nintendo was the first to use it as a main feature, it was around before then. You can't say Sony "copied" the analog idea from Nintendo when Nintendo "copied" it. Analogs are a standard now, it's hard to imagine gaming without them. Oh, how was risking adding it as a main feature a risk? "It's like adding a few more buttons to a controller, whoopee.", no big deal, right? Plenty of games had camera controls before the 2nd analog. The ENTIRE N64/PSX/Saturn generation controlled cameras without an analog stick. Are you seriously going to argue that the 2nd analog stick was anywhere near the revolution that the 1st one was? The risk of adding something nobody else used to good effect and forcing everyone to make games using it was the risk. Its the same reason why motion control on the wii works better than the sixaxis. The wii was built using the motion control as its core function, just like the N64 was built using the analog stick as its main control. That is the risk. If motion control or analog control bombed, the console would've bombed. Compare that to the sixaxis where its barely used in any games and nobody notices at all so if it failed, no risk to the console.

 How practical were those controls compared to the analog stick? Face it, camera control is a lot easier with the second analog stick there. I wasn't saying that camera controls didn't exist, just that they're more practical now because of the addition of a second analog stick then they were then. Just like moving around with an analog is a lot more practical than moving around with a d-pad now. I'm not arguing that it's comparable to the first one, just that it has made a big difference and a good one at that. 

Also, by your logic, Sony made the optical disc format a standard for gaming today which you(as everybody else does) would probably point out the Sega systems with the CDs and other previous consoles. But by your logic because none of the other systems used it to the good effect Sony did with the PS1, they made it the standard...and anybody after the PS1 copied.

Lone_Canis_Lupus said: darconi said: Played_Out said: FreeTalkLive said: Of course Sony copied Nintendo. They copied Nintendo with the PS1 and they are coping Nintendo again. The more new products and ideas Nintendo comes out with, the better. It is good that Sony and MS copy Nintendo because it makes for better games. And Shigeru Miyamoto created the Heavens and the Earth in six days. @ ClaudeLv250 As has been pointed out on these boards many times before, Sony introduced analog controls on the PS before the N64 was released, so they can hardly be said to have copied the idea. Analog controls had been around for ages before this, but AFAIK Sony were the first to introduce the dual analog that is now standard.   Analog was around before but Nintendo was the first to make it a standard for videogaming. They took the big risk to introduce it as a main feature. Sony introduced analog controls for the PS way after Nintendo introduced it for the N64. Whether it was "released" before or after doesn't matter due to launch timings. All you have to do is look at the original PS controller and see that it had no analog stick at all. I hardly call adding a 2nd analog stick an innovation, its like adding a few more buttons to a controller, whoopee. So camera control isn't a big difference? Because the 2nd analog is totally used for the same purpose as the first all the time. It doesn't matter whether Nintendo was the first to use it as a main feature, it was around before then. You can't say Sony "copied" the analog idea from Nintendo when Nintendo "copied" it. Analogs are a standard now, it's hard to imagine gaming without them. Oh, how was risking adding it as a main feature a risk? "It's like adding a few more buttons to a controller, whoopee.", no big deal, right?

Analog was a 70's videogame standard.

Sony did bring it back for flight simulator games though... and that was about it. For their flight simulator games with a special flight simulator controller.

Nintendo's analog stick control beat Sony's to market aside from the flight simulator controller.

So did Sony.  The PS1 dual analog controller came out after the N64 and Saturn analog controllers.