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Forums - Politics Discussion - Is the United States really a developed country?

irstupid said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Not the best example since Russia is quite a bit larger than the US

Russia is not that much bigger than the US. The way maps look is why it looks so much bigger.

It would be more apt to take into account the land that is actually used. There are huge parts of Russia that no one lives period.

Like say Russia is twice the size of the US, the US is over twice the population of Russia.

74% bigger is quite a bit bigger.

And FYI I'm not looking at maps, I'm looking at the official land area figures.



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GINI is not a reliable marker, however. It looks at inequality and disparity in wealth between the poorest and wealthiest. While it indicates the extent of inequality, it does not factor in other important qualitative characteristics, such as the the cost of average living (which, if low, even the poorest can get by), nor does it highlight how the poor of the country in question fare vis-a-vis other countries. USA has huge economic inequalities, but the average living conditions even for the poor, are still much better than in other less developed countries.



HomokHarcos said:

 

When the developed nations of the world are mentioned, a few always come up. Canada, United States, almost all of Western Europe, Japan, Australia and New Zealand. However, the US being considered a developed country puzzles me. Looking at the GINI Index, it has massive inequality in terms of wealth. All of the other developed nations are in the green while the United States is red.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

Mississippi is pretty poor, and it's hard to think of it being a rich nation when you are in some of the inner cities or rural areas in the South.

Also, the crime rate and violence is much higher than the rest of the developed world. Looking at the intentional homicide rate also brings a similar view.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Detroit can feel like many South American or South African cities when it comes to violence. Nowhere in Canada would a place ever be that dangerous to visit.

 

Compared that also with no public health care. In many other developed countries you are not treated as something to be exploited for money at the hospital. In the United States it seems that money is the priority in hospitals. Cuba literally has a higher-life expectancy than  the United States. Pretty much all of the other developed countries do.

 

Also the government is much more corrupt than the other developed countries. The USA has become a two-party dominated country with the Democrats and Republicans where donors actually determine the nation's policy. So many times politicians are caught doing crooked things such as Rick Snyder knowing that the Flint water was unsafe yet he continued to let the water be used. He was never punished for it.

 

The United States notably Is also much more religious than the other developed countries. The government tries to prevent gay marriage and abortions from becoming acceptable. For supposedly being a secular nation the government seems to base a lot of their rulings off of religious views.

Then there’s the education system. The US is not very educated compared to many other Western nations. The high prices and prestigious universities certainly are great for the country, but many local schools are so poorly funded that they can’t even provide up-to-date books. This makes the country feel more like China than the Netherlands or Sweden. Of course this also extends to school violence. In no other country in the whole world are mass shootings in the school a problem like they are in the United States. Quite unfathomably, the general public has normalized school shootings to the point when one does happen it gets forgotten about very quickly.

 

I lived in the United States for four years and love it with a spot in my heart. But all the problems such as poor education, government corruption, violence, income inequality make it just under being a developed nation. It is not comparable to Australia, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, United Kingdom, Japan and my current country Canada in terms of living.

 

First on inequality. Do you realize that the United States is pretty much a continent? We've got 50 states plus a federal district and some territories. Having equality on that kind of level is impossible. Chances are, if you're living on the east coast or the west coast, you're going to make more money. Like in most of the world, coastal regions are far more prosperous than land-locked regions. Mississippi could never compete with New York. There's nothing in Mississippi that could make that happen. However, there is a catch to all that. Living in the city is very expensive whereas the cost of living a rural southern region is much cheaper meaning that you could get a lot more for less. So why should it matter if someone from Mississippi makes far less than someone New York if the person from Mississippi can buy a bigger house than the person in New York for far less money?

As for the crime rate, a lot of that comes with population. The US has a population of 325 million people. Japan has a population of 126 million. Canada has a population of 37 million. Then you get to the European countries, their population figures are also in the tens of millions. So it would make more sense for the US to have more crime. However, crime in the US is currently the lowest it has been in decades. There are pockets of areas with high crime rates, but that can be blamed mostly on incompetent politicians in local governments.

Then there's healthcare. The funny thing about that is health was very affordable until the government became more involved. Aside from the healthcare problems, if you walk into an American hospital, they're some of the best. They may be as expensive as hell, but there some of the best. They are certainly far better than that hospital my friend had to go to when she was in Rome. The fact that the hospital had wooden floorboards terrified her amongst many other things.

As for the government, the US isn't really any better or worse than any other developed nations. Japan had quite a few politicians resign due to corruption. South Korea's last President had to resign because of Corruption. The UK's government was recently caught in a scandal involving a 40 year child sex ring where the police were to afraid to arrest the perpetrators because someone would accuse them of racism. In fact, the UK is on the road to become Airstrip One from 1984. I'm sure if you go into the local towns and cities of various developed nations, you'll find plenty of corrupt politicians who never make national news.

As for religion, it has not been a major factor in American policy probably since the 1990s. The religious right element of the Republican Party is getting old and dying off and the New Right tend to be not as focused on religion. Also, since the Supreme Court declared same sex marriage legal, nobody has really tried to stop it. Also, abortion has been legal in the United States for a good 40 years now and the only real restrictions are on the state level. Aside from that, there's nothing wrong with religion. As long as it is kept out of the hands of government, religion is fine.

As for education, the US had some of the best public schools in the world up until the 1970s. That was when the Department of Education was formed. Needless to say, it has made things worse. The teachers unions don't help because it makes it hard to fire bad teachers and to pay teachers based on performance. The US does have an education problem and will continue to do so until the teachers unions are broken and schools become a state concern again. With that being said, the US still has very good private schools and universities. As far as violence and school shootings are concerned, they really don't happen that often. If they did, the news media would eventually stop treating them as front page news. Believe it or not, school shootings in the US are at a 20 year low. Also, the data regarding school shootings has to be called into question. The FBI classifies a school shooting by shootings that occur within a designated school zone, which is a problem, especially when there was an incident when a man shot himself in his car in the middle of the night outside of a school that had been closed for months. That was classified as a school shooting.

Finally, to answer your question, yes, the US is a developed nation. You can go into the home of an American who makes just a modest living and you can see this. They have stuff all over the place. They have a refrigerator full of food, more electronic gadgets and gizmos than early sci-fi writers could ever dream up, a closet full of clothing and there's a good possibility that the resident of that house may be a little overweight due to the excess amount of food he or she may have access to, especially from convenient stores and restaurants that are open 24 hours a day. And that's the people who aren't all that well off. Even the homeless don't have it all that bad if they play their cards right. There was once a homeless guy in New York City who made over $50,000 in a single year just from begging for change. So yes, despite its flaws, the US has been good for a lot of people, especially people who historically weren't treated well in Western nations. For example, where do the wealthiest black people live? The United States. 



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sethnintendo said:

We are a nation full of idiots and crazy people. The founding fathers were outcasts from Europe. Basically, I just wanted to say this... Fuck puritans

You do realize that the Founding Fathers and Puritans were two entirely different groups of people, right? If Deists were around during the time of the Puritans, they would have been condemned to death.



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Helloplite said:
GINI is not a reliable marker, however. It looks at inequality and disparity in wealth between the poorest and wealthiest. While it indicates the extent of inequality, it does not factor in other important qualitative characteristics, such as the the cost of average living (which, if low, even the poorest can get by), nor does it highlight how the poor of the country in question fare vis-a-vis other countries. USA has huge economic inequalities, but the average living conditions even for the poor, are still much better than in other less developed countries.

And in some place of the US, $15 and hour you can't live on, wheras in some other places in the US, $15 and hour is a very nice wage and you will be comfortable.

All it takes is to look at real estate values. What I can purchase where I live may cost me $200,000. If I were to go somewhere else, that identical house and plot of land could cost me $1,500,000

Clearly I would need to make a shit ton more money to afford the exact same house in one part of the county versus another. So how reliable is this GINI if a person making $15 an hour is living life comfortably and someone else making $30 and hour is barely scrapping by? How is it that person who makes less is less poor than the person who makes more?

That GINI is pointless in big areas. It only works when comparing the same standard of living, which in the case of US is not the same across the country.



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Americans can stay fooled by their politicians that Canadian health care takes long or is inferior or is socialism.  Just look at the facts Canadians live longer much longer then the average US citizen were up in our 80's and America still in the 70's  Also other factors like crime and stress. I think parts of the United States are developed but I think many parts are ignored as well.  In 2008 your lack of regulations almost collapsed the worlds economy lol Africa never did that



Russia has huge land mass , only country larger then Canada is russia with huge natural resources



maxleresistant said:
I won't say that the US is not developed.
But it sure has a lot of big problems, the 3 main ones to solve being free Healthcare, education and gun control. This is how you reduce inequalities, give everybody a decent chance.
Now we know the reality is still different, even in countries with free education, you can't become anything you want to be. But at least you'll have a chance of having a good or great job.

Where is education free?



Premise wrong. Subtext to such a question is wrong. Everything so wrong. If you think America is not a developed country you lack both an understanding on how the world compares and how the American government on a federal and state level are run.

It's not even a faux intellectual question to ask. It's just ignorant.



Aeolus451 said:
What a nonsensical opinion to have. Of course, it's a developed country. Alot of the things you used as examples (murders, poor education, slums) of an undeveloped country were in areas that have been under lefty control for a loooong time. 😹

Donald.....is that you?