krik said: rocketpig said: Mass Effect had good voice acting. Heavenly Sword's voice acting was freakin' incredible, far better than anything seen in a MGS game and in that regard is probably the best video game ever produced. I guess that's what happens when you pay for top notch voice acting talent instead of putting an ad in the Penny Saver under "monotone guys who smoke 4 packs a day needed for voice work". The dialogue was far more interesting, also. I wouldn't even put MGS's voice acting on par with mediocre games like Gears of War or BioShock. Some of the conversations in MGS are just plain bad and had me laughing at the awkwardness of both the acting and the dialogue. I will give Kojima the benefit of the doubt and say that it's possible there was something lost in the translation but that still doesn't make it good. You have to be joking... Gears of War story, dialogue and voice acting are simply horrible...

IMO, the voice acting was better than MGS... Which isn't saying much. It's akin to saying that I would rather get kicked in the shin over kicked in the nuts.

rocketpig said: Most of Fallout is text-based so I didn't really include it. The dialogue is funny and some of the characters are great, but it still falls short unless you classify it purely as a comedy, which it's not. I haven't played Planescape enough to judge the game. My friend owned it and I dabbled with the game, that's it. Ugh, movies? I could list you 50. Breaking it down to 5 would be impossible for me and putting them in any sort of order would be even harder. My point is that there are so many different things going on in movies that it all depends on what you're looking at in that particular moment. Picking a movie "overall" is impossible. There are too many flavors and varieties depending on mood, something video gaming has yet to match in stories and plotlines.

One reason for video games not matching movie stories is that games like FF7 can get high marks for story. Why write a terrific story when mediocrity will get you perfect scores?

Words Of Wisdom said: rocketpig said: Most of Fallout is text-based so I didn't really include it. The dialogue is funny and some of the characters are great, but it still falls short unless you classify it purely as a comedy, which it's not. I haven't played Planescape enough to judge the game. My friend owned it and I dabbled with the game, that's it. Ugh, movies? I could list you 50. Breaking it down to 5 would be impossible for me and putting them in any sort of order would be even harder. My point is that there are so many different things going on in movies that it all depends on what you're looking at in that particular moment. Picking a movie "overall" is impossible. There are too many flavors and varieties depending on mood, something video gaming has yet to match in stories and plotlines. One reason for video games not matching movie stories is that games like FF7 can get high marks for story. Why write a terrific story when mediocrity will get you perfect scores?

Like Ocarina of time?

 

Words Of Wisdom said: rocketpig said: Most of Fallout is text-based so I didn't really include it. The dialogue is funny and some of the characters are great, but it still falls short unless you classify it purely as a comedy, which it's not. I haven't played Planescape enough to judge the game. My friend owned it and I dabbled with the game, that's it. Ugh, movies? I could list you 50. Breaking it down to 5 would be impossible for me and putting them in any sort of order would be even harder. My point is that there are so many different things going on in movies that it all depends on what you're looking at in that particular moment. Picking a movie "overall" is impossible. There are too many flavors and varieties depending on mood, something video gaming has yet to match in stories and plotlines. One reason for video games not matching movie stories is that games like FF7 can get high marks for story. Why write a terrific story when mediocrity will get you perfect scores?

My point exactly. Both reviewers and game buyers need to start demanding more from game developers. It's high time the days of considering cheap anime knockoff storylines as quality were put to bed for good. The same applies to incredibly dumbed-down action games getting high marks for story just because they have one. It doesn't matter if it's good or not; just make it confusing (RPGs) or put a story in there somewhere (action games) and you're pretty much guaranteed a decent score. Make it anything less than completely shitty and you're quickly approaching perfect scores.

Bodhesatva said: I've never heard of anyone asking for less gameplay, more cutscenes. At least in games. That you play. While the original post was certainly phrased as a question, it's so uncommon for someone to hold such a position that the argument is implicit in the question you just asked. Consider this example to highlight the point. "Are you guys afraid that the US will stop using as much foreign oil in the future?" This question automatically assumes that using foreign oil is a good thing -- something I believe virtually everyone would disagree with, and a person asking such a question would reasonably know that most people would object to the assumption outright. It's the same principle here.

 Well, in all fairness, he almost seems to have a good point.  The videos in SSBB are no where near the quality expected in MGS4 and I wish the SSE in SSBB had more videos and less gameplay.  The gameplay in SSE is ok, but the videos are better. 

 

Yojimbo said: Words Of Wisdom said: rocketpig said: Most of Fallout is text-based so I didn't really include it. The dialogue is funny and some of the characters are great, but it still falls short unless you classify it purely as a comedy, which it's not. I haven't played Planescape enough to judge the game. My friend owned it and I dabbled with the game, that's it. Ugh, movies? I could list you 50. Breaking it down to 5 would be impossible for me and putting them in any sort of order would be even harder. My point is that there are so many different things going on in movies that it all depends on what you're looking at in that particular moment. Picking a movie "overall" is impossible. There are too many flavors and varieties depending on mood, something video gaming has yet to match in stories and plotlines. One reason for video games not matching movie stories is that games like FF7 can get high marks for story. Why write a terrific story when mediocrity will get you perfect scores? Like Ocarina of time?

Very much so.  I think managed expectations plays a larger role in certain frachises though.  No one is expecting a large story from a Zelda game.  The original Zelda essentially told you Zelda was in trouble, gave you a pat on the back, and told you to go rescue her.  Same with most Mario games.  People don't expect gradiose stories from these games and for the most part (except for the occasional blue moon) they get what they expect.

Words Of Wisdom said: Yojimbo said: Words Of Wisdom said: rocketpig said: Most of Fallout is text-based so I didn't really include it. The dialogue is funny and some of the characters are great, but it still falls short unless you classify it purely as a comedy, which it's not. I haven't played Planescape enough to judge the game. My friend owned it and I dabbled with the game, that's it. Ugh, movies? I could list you 50. Breaking it down to 5 would be impossible for me and putting them in any sort of order would be even harder. My point is that there are so many different things going on in movies that it all depends on what you're looking at in that particular moment. Picking a movie "overall" is impossible. There are too many flavors and varieties depending on mood, something video gaming has yet to match in stories and plotlines. One reason for video games not matching movie stories is that games like FF7 can get high marks for story. Why write a terrific story when mediocrity will get you perfect scores? Like Ocarina of time?   Very much so.  I think managed expectations plays a larger role in certain frachises though.  No one is expecting a large story from a Zelda game.  The original Zelda essentially told you Zelda was in trouble, gave you a pat on the back, and told you to go rescue her.  Same with most Mario games.  People don't expect gradiose stories from these games and for the most part (except for the occasional blue moon) they get what they expect.

I don`t think the plot in Final Fantasy VII is bad. Why people like to make fun of it so much? I thought it was preety good.

So, lemme get this straight... A Cyberpunk world with elite soldiers, an evil corporate giant, betrayal amongst the ranks, cloning, and an impending apocalypse plot line is good?

Sorry, seen that one too many times. For example, half the anime made in the past 25 years.

This only illustrates my point. How many times are gamers going to play the same plotline (and in most cases, one that wasn't very good to begin with) before calling bullshit on developers for not attempting anything more intelligent or different? It seems to me that the last half dozen Final Fantasy games have been pretty much the same idea with different characters bolted into the game. That's not even including the 14,000 spin-offs Square has made in the past 10 years that also follow similar story development.

rocketpig said: I think the problem with video games is that they refuse to grow up. The same developers who found anime fun and exciting as children grew up physically but remained loyal to the often bad and terribly cliched stories they loved as children. Given the geek nature of the business, very little is done to expand upon the simple "shoot 'em up/spout terrible one-liners" story arcs that games have been subject to since their inception. Gameplay has matured a great deal, as has music, but plot lines and dialogue are still almost as bad as they were 15 years ago.

This is definitely part of the problem. What we're starting to see, and what you'll continue to see, is that more specialization comes in to control aspects of the games that the very geeky people have to business doing. It is beginning with voice acting, but voice acting is still very new to games. The bar isn't yet very high.

I think art is one of the first strong examples -- right now, top quality artists are being used for games that can afford them. And they specialize in various types of art.

Writing is decidedly improving, but there is some misunderstanding of the average gamer right now. Gaming is becoming mainstream insomuch that it is beginning to replace television and movies for a generation of users. However, there are still more TV viewers who demand high end writing than gamers, so we continue to see writers in more and get paid more money for TV work.

Another part of the problem is that the art costs and other development costs are getting so high for gaming that developers and publishers aren't willing to foot a huge bill for story/voice acting and other talent areas. Whereas voice acting may be a major cost for Pixar films, for example, they may have to be a minor cost for a game since so many games struggle to break even these days, buried under high costs in other areas.

You forgot to add the best part: a geeky high-school-esque 'soldier' in the middle of a love triangle with two women.  Ever see an anime about that? 

Absolutely not. Love triangles are never used in anime.

:D