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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Smash Bros. Character Reworks?

Ganondorf is in dire need of a new moveset. It's quite sad that he still is more or less a variation of Captain Falcon when I'm sure there's more that could be done with him. It'd be sweet if he could at least use that cool looking sword he likes to show off...



 

              

Dance my pretties!

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MTZehvor said:
Ulternia said:
Fix the clones. They’re especially frustrating when they’re characters with no nostalgia nor purpose (like Lucina). I genuinely felt like some of the fat on the roster of 4 is what contributed to it being my least favorite in the series so far.

 

HandofPrometheus said: 

I agree. I honestly preferred Brawl over this one. I don't play this game competitively so I could care less if the mechanics favored melee more but the clones need to go.

 

CaptainExplosion said:

Yes, ESPECIALLY Lucina. Ike and Robin at least were different enough in their own right, but Lucina is just female Marth with slightly adjusted stats.

You guys do realize that clones aren't just like lazily made characters that are taking the spots of what would otherwise be totally unique fighters, right? They're much easier to put together and take far less development time. You're not getting any new characters if you get rid of clones, you're just making the roster slightly smaller without receiving anything in return.

Face it Lucina should be a skin like Alph



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Arminillo said:
MTZehvor said:

 

 

You guys do realize that clones aren't just like lazily made characters that are taking the spots of what would otherwise be totally unique fighters, right? They're much easier to put together and take far less development time. You're not getting any new characters if you get rid of clones, you're just making the roster slightly smaller without receiving anything in return.

Face it Lucina should be a skin like Alph

Why? For what purpose? Lucina/DPit/Doc didn't take development time anyway from any other characters. They were originally going to be alternate skins, and then Sakurai decided at the last moment it'd be cool if they had some minor differences. People asking to get rid of clones are quite literally asking for less content in the game with nothing in return.



CaptainExplosion said:
MTZehvor said:

Why? For what purpose? Lucina/DPit/Doc didn't take development time anyway from any other characters. They were originally going to be alternate skins, and then Sakurai decided at the last moment it'd be cool if they had some minor differences. People asking to get rid of clones are quite literally asking for less content in the game with nothing in return.

Well at least make the clones feel more unique, like how Luigi was given the Super Jump Punch or Green Rocket starting with Melee, or how Roy's moves were made more unique from Marth's.

I wouldn't be opposed to additional work being done for them, but I don't understand the widespread push to give them different movesets compared with other alternate skins. They're just alternate costumes, like Alph, Koopalings, etc. that were given one or two minor differences. If you're not going to sit here and demand that Alph or the Koopalings be given a unique moveset for Smash 5, you shouldn't be doing so for Lucina or Dark Pit.

mZuzek said:
CaptainExplosion said:

Well at least make the clones feel more unique, like how Luigi was given the Super Jump Punch or Green Rocket starting with Melee, or how Roy's moves were made more unique from Marth's.

Eh, I think Lucina should just be a Marth skin. I don't see many ways in which they can make her unique compared to Marth and Roy, and having three semi-clones is a bit much, too.

Dr. Mario I'm fine with, especially if they keep changing Mario to add some Cappy stuff or whatever, and Dark Pit I could be okay with if they make either him or Pit closer to how Pit was in Brawl, since they reworked him quite considerably for Smash 4.

Conversely, I don't see the reason behind taking the small differences between Marth and Lucina away. While Marth's tipper is often preferable for many matchups, there are some where it's just not feasible to consistently tipper, making Lucina the ideal choice. You certainly don't lose anything from having a character with a slight alteration; I don't understand the logic behind taking a character with a slight, often useful distinction, and just removing that.

I'd pose this question to you as something of a logic exercise: If Lucina still kept her differences, but was chosen from the character select screen as an alternate skin for Marth rather than having her own specific character slot, would you still be for removing her non-tipper distinction?



mZuzek said:
MTZehvor said: 

Conversely, I don't see the reason behind taking the small differences between Marth and Lucina away. While Marth's tipper is often preferable for many matchups, there are some where it's just not feasible to consistently tipper, making Lucina the ideal choice. You certainly don't lose anything from having a character with a slight alteration; I don't understand the logic behind taking a character with a slight, often useful distinction, and just removing that.

I'd pose this question to you as something of a logic exercise: If Lucina still kept her differences, but was chosen from the character select screen as an alternate skin for Marth rather than having her own specific character slot, would you still be for removing her non-tipper distinction?

Yes, I would. I don't really care about the matchup nuances when it comes to these things. I don't think Lucina adds anything interesting to the game, so I don't want her back as anything other than a Marth skin. If anything, I think a stronger, tipper-less Marth is actually pretty annoying.

But ultimately, I really just don't care about the competitive side of things when it's pre-release hype season. I see people calling out for buffs and nerfs, or for the game to have fewer characters in order to be more balanced, or whatever, and I just don't care. I want Smash to be hype and filled with loads of interesting characters. I can think about the competitive side of things when the game's in my hands.

Then I'd have to ask: Why is it a problem in the first place? What is the issue behind a tipper-less Marth? Sure, you can argue it doesn't add much to the game (I would disagree, but that's neither here nor there), but it certainly doesn't take anything away, either. It's not as if a new character with a unique and "interesting" moveset is being left out: Lucina was actually initially going to just be an alternate costume, but at the last second Sakurai thought it would be cool to give her a subtle difference. In other words, you're not losing anything by letting Lucina have her own distinction. So why take content out of the game, even if it's minimal, if you're getting nothing in return?

To quote Sakurai himself on the subject of clones:

“This (clone characters) is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, ‘Change this to a meat dish!!’

Last edited by MTZehvor - on 06 May 2018

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Jigglypuff has been there since day one, she's one of the original 12, please buff the puff. She used to be such awesome character. Her moves are great, I play a lot with her (Jiggly main here), but it's really tough now to combat against some other really quick characters. Give her back her old back air kick and some more speed in the air so you can counter some dodged attacks. A bit more speed or another extra jump would be much appreciated as well.

But tbh, smash 4 was superb. It's an amazing game, I play it a lot even today. Hope there are not many changes to the formula this gen.



mZuzek said:
MTZehvor said:

Then I'd have to ask: Why is it a problem in the first place? What is the issue behind a tipper-less Marth? Sure, you can argue it doesn't add much to the game (I would disagree, but that's neither here nor there), but it certainly doesn't take anything away, either. It's not as if a new character with a unique and "interesting" moveset is being left out: Lucina was actually initially going to just be an alternate costume, but at the last second Sakurai thought it would be cool to give her a subtle difference. In other words, you're not losing anything by letting Lucina have her own distinction. So why take content out of the game, even if it's minimal, if you're getting nothing in return?

To quote Sakurai himself on the subject of clones:

“This (clone characters) is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, ‘Change this to a meat dish!!’

Because it's annoying. I'm all for purity. I hate all those extra items and stuff they put in the BotW expansion pass, because they tarnish my game with a billion pointless "sidequests" I can simply choose to ignore (and I do), but are still a nuisance. I don't feel you can justify having a clone character in a fighting game solely for a slight difference in gameplay, if you can't expand on it further in future games. I want variety, and I do want quantity, but not at the expense of the former. I also want fewer god damn Fire Emblem characters.

Without wishing to sound disrespectful, that honestly sounds borderline selfish. I'll admit that I've never been annoyed by free, entirely optional content for my games, so I can't fully put myself in your position, but wanting to get rid of content that other players enjoy/make use of because for no reason besides its mere existence is somehow "impure" seems...unreasonable, to say the least.

Last edited by MTZehvor - on 06 May 2018

Erase all the FE clones and focus on known characters like the 4 champions. Change Link and Zelda's moveset ro resemble BotW.



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mZuzek said:

Also, I'm pretty sure 99% of Lucina players wouldn't mind moving to Marth if she was removed. Most of them already use Marth anyway.

Off the top of my head, I know of a number of high level Smash players (Zero, Nairo, Neo, Poyo) that opt for Lucina over Marth when they're going to play one of the two. As someone who uses both characters, I personally would be saddened by losing her uniqueness. I realize you're not super concerned about competitive play, but the people that put a good deal of thought into character selections do, at the very least, have preferences for Lucina in a number of cases (and likewise, quite a few have preferences for Marth).



CaptainExplosion said:
killeryoshis said:
Ganondorf is more than overdue for a reworked move set. He has an evil sword and he doesn't use it? Blasphemy! What an insult to the king of Evil has to be a clone of a race car driver. Also, buff the puff.

I know, it's so pointless to leave the sword out when it's so crucial to his character! That's like if they removed Mario's hat and overalls.

On a related note, personally I suspect swimsuit Mario will be an alternate costume for Mario solely due to the social media storm it created when it was first shown. It can go either way on if Sakurai will be including the nipples or not however.

Oh and I am in favor of losing Lucina and Robin but only if the latest FE character from the upcoming Switch game takes their place. Marth and Ike should both stay.