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Forums - Politics - YouTube incident: 'Active shooter' at HQ in northern California

Insidb on 04 April 2018
o_O.Q said:
Insidb said:

His celebratory comments about being disliked strongly indicate that he is a genuine troll and warrants moderation.

 you started our conversation by calling me a robot without even trying to address the statistics i posted

after 3 posts you begrudging decided to try to tackle my arguments after insulting me constantly

and finally you are now calling me a troll because i refuse to become emotional over another user insulting me

 

and i'm the troll lol... that's rich dude

I'm calling you a troll, because you publicly revel in being disliked and sowing discord.

That's what trolls do; they make inflammatory claims and then openly celebrate them.



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Insidb on 04 April 2018
the-pi-guy said:
o_O.Q said:

cherry picking? you do understand what you're looking at right?

the entire point of the article is that despite there being gun control the rate of violent crime in the uk has been on a steady increase and that is has been above that of the united states for decades now 

 

Yes, this is cherry picking.  This graph is about white crime.  This is the next chart:

You're correct: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43628494



TheBird on 04 April 2018
Nem said:
TheBird said:
Gun control wouldn't have stopped this, this girl was a crazy person, and YouTube pissed her off. Whether guns were here or not, people would still have been injured or killed by this girl. Because she is a crazy person who wants to kill people for demonetizing her cringry dance videos.
u-Haul trucks are cheap, bombs are easy to make, apparently people can hurt others with their words, so she could of easily mis gendered some of them on purpose and it would of been 100x more catastrophic than a bullet in the heart. I guess no matter what, people will still blame guns, innocent guns.

Hell, even if they banned gun sales like this, she could of bought one from across the border if she really wanted to use a gun if she knew she was going to end it all in suicide.

Don't blame guns, blame the media.

You are saying she would've killed and injured 4 people without a gun? What kind of game are you playing? That kind of thing really disgusts me.

If she had no gun, security would've detained her and end of story. What is wrong with people like you? Too bad they don't attack your workplace. You need the reality check.

Guns are NOT innocent! Guns are made to KILL people! That is their purpose! They are not for protecting, they are for KILLING!

A crazy person with no gun and a crazy person with a gun are VASTLY different threat levels because of that. 

 

Jesus, i'm trying really hard not to flame you because that is absolutely disgusting. Have some shame.

"Too bad they don't attack your workplace."? Really dude? That is how you have discussions? You're saying i'm disgusting when you can't even think rationally. Sorry I used logic and that I live in a place where a terrorist legitimately used a U-haul truck to injure innocent, law abiding citizens and a police officer.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3778722/edmonton-terror-attacks-police-stabbed-u-haul-rampage/

Guns are tools, they hunt, they kill, and most importantly they shut irrational people like you up who want to take away freedom from real people. There is a crazy person who got a gun. She could of gotten it legally, or illegally from mexico, she would still kill people. If there were no guns at all, period. Not one on the face of the earth, then she could of just rented a truck like in Edmonton. We're talking about a crazy person, not guns.



o_O.Q on 04 April 2018
Insidb said:
o_O.Q said:

"Violent crime has decreased in the US: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/"

because of gun control laws? or because society is becoming more civil in general despite the media pushing the opposite idea?

 

"Seeing as the gun ownership rates have correlated with decreases in violent crime,..."

i just looked at your article in more detail

"According to the survey, which was conducted among 1,001 Americans in the aftermath of the Orlando nightclub shooting"

 

"1,001"

 

bonus : "But gun purchases, as measured by FBI firearm background checks, are at historic highs. "

SAD:

 

1: "One is an annual report by the FBI of serious crimes reported to police in approximately 18,000 jurisdictions around the country. The other is an annual survey of more than 90,000 households conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which asks Americans ages 12 and older whether they were victims of crime, regardless of whether they reported those crimes to the police."

2: "But the downward trend in gun ownership remains consistent across the national polls. According to Gallup, gun ownership has fallen by about 10 percentage points since its peak in 1993. The General Social Survey shows a 20-point drop since the mid-1970s."

3: And, RIGHT AFTER your FBI excerpt: "But the declining rates of gun ownership across three major national surveys suggest a different explanation: that most of the rise in gun purchases is driven by existing gun owners stocking up, rather than by people buying their first gun. A Washington Post analysis last year found that the average American gun owner now owns approximately eight firearms, double the number in the 1990s."

4: More evidence of concentrated fun ownership: https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership-in-america-in-three-charts/

5: More surveys that show decreasing gun ownership in the US: http://www.researchscape.com/library/public-opinion/gun-ownership


You can try to cherry-pick, but everyone else can just read the articles and see the desperate attempts at deflection.

 

http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

 

if you were to plot a line of best fit through this graph it'd be almost horizontal...

it shows that in the last couple years gun ownership has been increasing and continues to increase...

hopefully if the upwards trend continues we can get back up to 50

 

what i'm not seeing here though is an indication of crime increasing with the implementation of gun control laws as we see in the uk

 

btw i didn't deny that violent crime is decreasing



o_O.Q on 04 April 2018
the-pi-guy said:
o_O.Q said:

cherry picking? you do understand what you're looking at right?

the entire point of the article is that despite there being gun control the rate of violent crime in the uk has been on a steady increase and that is has been above that of the united states for decades now 

 

Yes, this is cherry picking.  This graph is about white crime.  This is the next chart:

 

you are right that was my mistake

i skimmed this and didn't take the adjustments into consideration

 

regardless it is a fact that the UK has a higher rate of violent crime

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html

and its increasing : https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/27/violent-rising-england-wales-police-figures-ons



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o_O.Q on 04 April 2018
Insidb said:
o_O.Q said:

 you started our conversation by calling me a robot without even trying to address the statistics i posted

after 3 posts you begrudging decided to try to tackle my arguments after insulting me constantly

and finally you are now calling me a troll because i refuse to become emotional over another user insulting me

 

and i'm the troll lol... that's rich dude

I'm calling you a troll, because you publicly revel in being disliked and sowing discord.

That's what trolls do; they make inflammatory claims and then openly celebrate them.

i take offense to this



Insidb on 04 April 2018
o_O.Q said:
Insidb said:

SAD:

 

1: "One is an annual report by the FBI of serious crimes reported to police in approximately 18,000 jurisdictions around the country. The other is an annual survey of more than 90,000 households conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which asks Americans ages 12 and older whether they were victims of crime, regardless of whether they reported those crimes to the police."

2: "But the downward trend in gun ownership remains consistent across the national polls. According to Gallup, gun ownership has fallen by about 10 percentage points since its peak in 1993. The General Social Survey shows a 20-point drop since the mid-1970s."

3: And, RIGHT AFTER your FBI excerpt: "But the declining rates of gun ownership across three major national surveys suggest a different explanation: that most of the rise in gun purchases is driven by existing gun owners stocking up, rather than by people buying their first gun. A Washington Post analysis last year found that the average American gun owner now owns approximately eight firearms, double the number in the 1990s."

4: More evidence of concentrated fun ownership: https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership-in-america-in-three-charts/

5: More surveys that show decreasing gun ownership in the US: http://www.researchscape.com/library/public-opinion/gun-ownership


You can try to cherry-pick, but everyone else can just read the articles and see the desperate attempts at deflection.

 

http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

 

if you were to plot a line of best fit through this graph it'd be almost horizontal...

it shows that in the last couple years gun ownership has been increasing and continues to increase...

hopefully if the upwards trend continues we can get back up to 50

 

what i'm not seeing here though is an indication of crime increasing with the implementation of gun control laws as we see in the uk

 

btw i didn't deny that violent crime is decreasing

I already posted links to 4+ polls that show a decreasing trendline and will provide no further data or entertain any further unqualified disputations.

You posted the "US doesn't have a gun problem" propaganda, and, again, any other reader will see right through this deflection.

o_O.Q said:
Insidb said:

I'm calling you a troll, because you publicly revel in being disliked and sowing discord.

That's what trolls do; they make inflammatory claims and then openly celebrate them.

i take offense to this

Then it would be wise for you to not publicly post, "i'm flattered," in response to "you embody everything that is wrong with the views of a human being in my opinion" or "lol don't make me laugh," in response to the same person subsequently saying, "I'm not gonna try to talk sense into you."

The behavior is clearly antagonist, a celebration thereof, and definitely against community guidelines.



Lucca on 05 April 2018
o_O.Q said:
LuccaCardoso1 said:

Yes, it does.

Since 2013, 305 school incidents related to firearms occurred in the US, around one a week.

From 1966 to 2012, the US was the country with the most mass shootings, 90, 72 more mass shootings than the second place, Philippines, that had 18.

Between 2000 and 2010, the US (population of 309 million people) had 27 school killings with multiple victims. During the same period, Argentina, Australia, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, China, Denmark, England, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Hungary, India, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kenya, Latvia, Netherlands, Northern Ireland, Norway, Poland, Russia, Scotland, South Africa, South Korea, Swaziland, Thailand, Trinidad and Tobago and Yemen (total population of 3.8 billion people), had 28.

It doesn't matter if the murder rate is lower or higher when compared to other countries, the fact is that it would surely be much lower with better gun control laws.

"It doesn't matter if the murder rate is lower or higher when compared to other countries"

huh? isn't the whole point of this gun control agenda to save lives or something?

The point of wanting gun control isn't making the US a better place than other countries, is to make the US a better place than it is right now. It doesn't matter if the other countries kill more or less.

o_O.Q said:
LuccaCardoso1 said:

Yes, it does.

Since 2013, 305 school incidents related to firearms occurred in the US, around one a week.

From 1966 to 2012, the US was the country with the most mass shootings, 90, 72 more mass shootings than the second place, Philippines, that had 18.

Between 2000 and 2010, the US (population of 309 million people) had 27 school killings with multiple victims. During the same period, Argentina, Australia, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, China, Denmark, England, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Hungary, India, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kenya, Latvia, Netherlands, Northern Ireland, Norway, Poland, Russia, Scotland, South Africa, South Korea, Swaziland, Thailand, Trinidad and Tobago and Yemen (total population of 3.8 billion people), had 28.

It doesn't matter if the murder rate is lower or higher when compared to other countries, the fact is that it would surely be much lower with better gun control laws.

"the fact is that it would surely be much lower with better gun control laws."

the statistics i posted from the uk clearly shows that this conclusion is wrong and do you know why? because the possibility that your target may shoot you dead is actually a deterrent when a criminal is assessing a target 

We have to better analyze the facts:

1. That huge spike in 2002/2003 happened because of the uncovering of Dr. Harold Shipman's almost 200 victims, credited to those years even though they happened from 1975-1998. That's an anomaly and shouldn't be considered for the analysis of a society. Similar anomalies happened in the years of 2001 (58 Chinese nationals who suffocated in a lorry going to the UK), 2004 (21 dead in the Morecambe Bay cockling disaster) and 2006 (52 victims from the 7/7).

2. The homicide rates were already increasing steadily decades before the gun ban in 97. 

3. The spike happened years after the ban. In http://www.firearmsafetyseminar.org.nz/_documents/Greenwood_Paper.pdf">The British Handgun Ban Logic, Politics, and Effect, Colin Greenwood claims that "The whole process of confiscating virtually all legally held handguns took place between July 1997 and February 1998." But for 1998, 1999 and 2000 the rates stayed basically the same. The spike in 2001 seems to be completely normal, as it also happened a few times before, even without the gun control laws.

4. There were too few handguns for it to make any difference. In 1997, the population of the UK was of about 51 million people. 57,000 people handed in guns after the handgun prohibition. That means that 1.1% of the population had all the handguns in the UK. That's basically nothing.

5. The law actually made a difference in the percentage of homicides committed using firearms. While we don't have any data for 1997, in 2009 the percentage in the UK was of 6.6%, according to UNODOC's Homicides by firearm document. In the US, in 2010, that percentage is of 67.5%.



o_O.Q on 05 April 2018
Insidb said:
o_O.Q said:

 

http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

 

if you were to plot a line of best fit through this graph it'd be almost horizontal...

it shows that in the last couple years gun ownership has been increasing and continues to increase...

hopefully if the upwards trend continues we can get back up to 50

 

what i'm not seeing here though is an indication of crime increasing with the implementation of gun control laws as we see in the uk

 

btw i didn't deny that violent crime is decreasing

I already posted links to 4+ polls that show a decreasing trendline and will provide no further data or entertain any further unqualified disputations.

You posted the "US doesn't have a gun problem" propaganda, and, again, any other reader will see right through this deflection.

o_O.Q said:

i take offense to this

Then it would be wise for you to not publicly post, "i'm flattered," in response to "you embody everything that is wrong with the views of a human being in my opinion" or "lol don't make me laugh," in response to the same person subsequently saying, "I'm not gonna try to talk sense into you."

The behavior is clearly antagonist, a celebration thereof, and definitely against community guidelines.

"I already posted links to 4+ polls that show a decreasing trendline"

ok... lets take the period from 1983 to 1994 (11 years)... gun edit ownership steadily increased to its highest percentage overall and yet violent crime decreased continuously simultaneously... 

this pretty much destroys your argument wouldn't you agree? 

 

"You posted the "US doesn't have a gun problem" propaganda"

my argument was that gun control has not reduced violent crime in the uk and that violent crime has been on a steady increase since gun control laws were put in place... the point is that ultimately its apparent that gun control has not made the uk safer and therefore,its kind of dishonest to assert that the us which has a similar culture will experience a decrease in violent crime if the same measures are taken

 

"Then it would be wise for you to not publicly post, "i'm flattered," in response to "you embody everything that is wrong with the views of a human being in my opinion" "

why not? i don't understand your problem with my response


" "lol don't make me laugh," in response to the same person subsequently saying, "I'm not gonna try to talk sense into you.""

and why not?

 

"The behavior is clearly antagonist"

lmao so let me get this straight he insults me and i respond kindly and i'm the antagonist?

what about you choosing to call me a robot instead of addressing my points initially?

april fools ended like 3 days ago man, time to update your callender

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 05 April 2018

Lucca on 05 April 2018
o_O.Q said:
the-pi-guy said:

 

Yes, this is cherry picking.  This graph is about white crime.  This is the next chart:

 

you are right that was my mistake

i skimmed this and didn't take the adjustments into consideration

 

regardless it is a fact that the UK has a higher rate of violent crime

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html

and its increasing : https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/27/violent-rising-england-wales-police-figures-ons

Your fonts contradict what you're saying. The first one is from 2001, being extremely outdated. The second one, though, shows a graphic comparing the crime rate from 2006 to 2016, and it is actually decreasing. It had a slight increase compared to 2015, but a huge decrease from 2006. I'd recommend you read the whole article before contradicting yourself next time ;)

And according to UNODC's Global Study on Homicide, the UK has a homicide rate of 1.0 per 100k population, while the US sits at a 4.7. That's worse than Turkey, Ukraine, Iran, Tunisia, Lybia, Syria, and many other "violent" countries.