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Forums - Politics Discussion - You can't believe trump won?

 

Trump 2020

Hell yes! 20 25.32%
 
Lets wait and see! 3 3.80%
 
Fuck no! 50 63.29%
 
Indifferent/comments/Hilary's dusty pussy... 6 7.59%
 
Total:79

I understand what put him over the top--Comey re-opening the email investigation two weeks before the election only to find nothing; voter suppression by GOP state govs in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania; and the social media activities of the Russian government's Internet Research Agency. But it shouldn't have been that close in the first place--Hillary had no charisma and too much baggage, even if it was overblown.

But even without the Russia connections, I think Trump's terrible policies will catch up to him--the giveaway-to-the-rich tax bill and the Chinese trade war chief among them.

Sources:

New York Magazine - Voter Suppression May Have Won Wisconsin for Trump

Washington Post - The Dutch were a secret U.S. ally in war against Russian hackers, local media reveal

WaPo again - Timeline: How Russian trolls allegedly tried to throw the 2016 election to Trump



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Maxosaurus-rex said:
newwil7l said:

2020 will be interesting. Expect the rust belt states to be very tight. This region will determine who wins the election once more.

Republicans and Trump should not get complacent. Historically red states like Arizona and Georgia were actually very close to flipping blue last election. The Republicans could get shell shocked next election just like the Democrats were for 2016 if these states fully flip.

Arizona  Really? Lol. That was 54% Republican. Georgia as well

Trump won both states by less than 5%. Keep in mind that these states used to have Republican leads by over 15% and are now very much battleground territories. The bigger Phoenix and Atlanta grow and respectively dominate the states the more blue these states are going to become. It is just the rule of urbanity and left leaning politics. Texas is another state that gets bluer with each election and this is thanks in large part to all the transplants moving to Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin. All blue cities in a red state.



Not surprised. Will be surprised if he wins 2020, that is when I will realize there is no hope for humanity.



newwil7l said:
Maxosaurus-rex said:

Arizona  Really? Lol. That was 54% Republican. Georgia as well

Trump won both states by less than 5%. Keep in mind that these states used to have Republican leads by over 15% and are now very much battleground territories. The bigger Phoenix and Atlanta grow and respectively dominate the states the more blue these states are going to become. It is just the rule of urbanity and left leaning politics. Texas is another state that gets bluer with each election and this is thanks in large part to all the transplants moving to Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin. All blue cities in a red state.

Sure. Don't let me crush your heart 



Angelv577 said:
Not surprised. Will be surprised if he wins 2020, that is when I will realize there is no hope for humanity.

Then the Democrats need to step up. The supposed reduction of support of the Democratic Party from millenials on the Reuters/Ipsos poll isn't encouraging.



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Maxosaurus-rex said:
Nem said:

You don't say. Though you have to add "Most votes don't win in the USA, because it's not a democracy". 

 

Also, he didn't have the majority of votes, he had the majority of the electoral college. Wich means all votes aren't the same, wich means it's a phony democracy. Good, glad we could come back to my original point.

Most votes do not win anywhere . All votes are the same. Everyone was counted. He got the majority of votes that counted. In fact, more electorates defected from Hilary than him. She was an awful unelectable candidate from the start(and that was 2008.not 2016)

 

Also, majority of voters did vote republican. 

Wrong. Very, very wrong.

Just cause you got a phony democracy don't project it to the ones that don't. Your 200 year old system is way past it's expery date. Not everyone failed to modernize.

Last edited by Nem - on 20 May 2018

Maxosaurus-rex said:
newwil7l said:

Trump won both states by less than 5%. Keep in mind that these states used to have Republican leads by over 15% and are now very much battleground territories. The bigger Phoenix and Atlanta grow and respectively dominate the states the more blue these states are going to become. It is just the rule of urbanity and left leaning politics. Texas is another state that gets bluer with each election and this is thanks in large part to all the transplants moving to Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin. All blue cities in a red state.

Sure. Don't let me crush your heart 

You can't just disagree when the facts are literally out there for you to see. Don't get your panties in a wad. Anyways the opposite is true for Midwestern states like Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, and Ohio. As more people leave the cities in these states the rural areas in them grow more of a voice. These states are getting more red at the same time that many sunbelt states are turning bluer.



DonFerrari said:
Nem said:

He won cause the election system is not democratic. He didn't get the most votes. I'm not american thankfully, but i don't understand the nerve of saying the US is the biggest democracy in the world when in fact it isn't one. It's cringy.

But, of course, he won by lying and deceiving people, preying on ignorance, wich his party keeps trying to foster by ruining the educational system.

 

That wikileaks and investigation things did quite a number to stain Hillary's reputation aswell, wich lasts until this day, even though investigations proved she did nothing worthy of that reputation.

There are several forms of democracy, but certainly USA doesn't call itself a democracy even when saying they are the biggest one.  They are a federation based on constitutional republic.

And it's funny you complaining about democracy in USA coming from the country of Dictator Franco.

Huh? The infamous american lack of geography knowledge rears it's ugly head again.



John2290 said:
Nem said:

You don't say. Though you have to add "Most votes don't win in the USA, because it's not a democracy". 

 

Also, he didn't have the majority of votes, he had the majority of the electoral college. Wich means all votes aren't the same, wich means it's a phony democracy. Good, glad we could come back to my original point.

If the US is not a democracy, Spain and the EU are dictatorships by comparison. I get it's cool for people in the EU to attack America and say we have it better but that isn't the reality anymore, We might have had 10 years ago but now we are 10 steps behind on every matter of democracy in most EU countries. 

Why do people keep thinking i'm spanish lol? I'm pretty sure that's not what it says on my profile. Spain has an effin king. Yeah, it's a poor democracy.

France, Portugal, etc. have better democracies. The ones that aren't still dragging around an outdated birth chosen monarch. I will criticise them as much as i criticise the flawed democratic system the US has.

The point of democracy is that people elect their ruler. Not that they elect a group that will then elect the leader for them, especially in a country where you can change wich counties correspond to what votes. It's a cavalcade of corruption (not to mention the backdoor dealings with fund raising).

In truth i'm criticizing cause i'd like the US to be the beacon of democracy it touts itself to be, but unfortunely is not, and is likely way too corrupt now to change. 



Nymeria said:
SpokenTruth said:

2 things will work.

1. Do not put him against another supremely flawed candidate like Clinton. 

2. More voters.  We simply need the numbers in the right places. 

Number 2 requires motivation. People under 40 lean left and don't vote, people over 60 lean right and do vote. We have a whole generation now that if they showed up like their parents/grandparents could shake this country in a way haven't seen since the new deal.  The issue I see among my peers is apathy and disillusionment.  "They're all the same" or "Both sides are corrupt" is the mantra of large swathes of non voters.  You need someone who speaks to them and feel genuine.

The Democrats could win in 2020 simply due to Republican fatigue, but could be right back to present situation in 2024.  I really think there is a chance here to make a mark in ways haven't seen since the 1960s left shift or 1980s right shift in politics.

Are they wrong though?

Just do what they do in Australia force everyone to vote lol.

Then you end up with minor governments that barely hold each other together and the opposition always reject the governments policy proposals.  Then people say these asses aren't doing shit so they vote for the other part next election and they barely win and then they get all their policies rejected.

A never ending circle of swapping and changing and not much getting done because the other party who didn't win feels they have to block almost everything.

State governments are even worst here, one will approve a 2billion budget and get contracts signed a month later the new government will cancel the project and pay out the contracts to honour them lol. And all this because 20 people complain about it lol.