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Forums - Politics Discussion - What is "socialism"? - An attempt to clear up myths/misconceptions

Leadified said:
DonFerrari said:

You mean governments that wanted to keep their power gone and intervened??? That doesn't really make capitalism to be at risk. I do not fear socialism, I do fear their tryouts that end up killing a lot of people in the process.

And since inequality is the biggest issue it certainly is better to live in Vietnam or Cuba than USA, and that is why we see daily migrants going from USA to both countries.

" That doesn't really make capitalism to be at risk." -> "You mean governments that wanted to keep their power gone and intervened???"
You just proved my point.

Revolution happens when society cannot take it anymore, violence becomes a viable solution. When you try to shove issues like inequality or exploitation under the rug like it's nothing, all it says to me is that capitalism can no longer solve these problems so their supporters choose to ignore them. 

Locknuts said:

Nah inequality isn't really a problem, so it doesn't really need to be talked about. All it does is stoke resentment and aid those who promote class warfare. As long as poverty is going down instead of up that's cool.

I'd say Zambia is a mistake on that list, but the rest seems pretty solid.

I disagree with your premise given the evidence I've provided so I don't think we can go further than this.

I don't know how to put it simpler to you that government instilling fear because they want to keep their power is totally different than capitalism being at risk... the socialist countries fall by themselves and capitalism was thriving at the same time... so it's hard to say it was at risk.

Sure, the violence was so needed that they had to kill their own followers to keep their power... but that was the socialist countries.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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morenoingrato said:
DonFerrari said: 

That is because generally only people that have a good standard of living and didn't lived on the places that they tried Socialism really defend it... like in Brazil where Socialists are mostly milionaries that think the government should do everything instead of using their own money.

I know what you mean. I'm currently studying in the States, and there is vocal and obnoxious Socialist community here that stages protests all the time. All I see there is privileged, entitled brats that are too blind to see how easy they have it.

I'm from Ecuador myself where socialist policies for 10 years left our economy in tatters and our democracy, international credibility and institutions seriously damaged. Even though our current government is slightly more centrist I don't think it goes far enough in eroding the previous toxic policies.

Yep... the demands can always be summarized to "take it from the others who have more and give to the ones that have less... unless I'm to be considered one that have more and could give it willingly"



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

sc94597 said:
Seventizz said:
Socialism is stupid and anti freedom. I thought you liberals liked freedom, no?

You millennials really need to educate yourselves. You're making your generation look really dumb.

Lol, the juxtaposition of "Socialism is... I thought you liberals liked freedom, no?" when referring to liberal-critical socialists and "You millennials really need to educate yourselves" is so ironic. 

Socialism and modern forms of liberalism (the political ideologies used to justify and protect capitalism) aren't even remotely the same thing. Socialists are critical of liberalism. That you think the people supporting socialism in this thread are liberals shows a lack of knowledge on your part. 

Have you considered that there are many different concepts of what freedom is? 

He is probably looking from USA POV where socialists and other left wing call themselves liberals while requiring more government intervention.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
sc94597 said:

Lol, the juxtaposition of "Socialism is... I thought you liberals liked freedom, no?" when referring to liberal-critical socialists and "You millennials really need to educate yourselves" is so ironic. 

Socialism and modern forms of liberalism (the political ideologies used to justify and protect capitalism) aren't even remotely the same thing. Socialists are critical of liberalism. That you think the people supporting socialism in this thread are liberals shows a lack of knowledge on your part. 

Have you considered that there are many different concepts of what freedom is? 

He is probably looking from USA POV where socialists and other left wing call themselves liberals while requiring more government intervention.

That's not what socialism is though, I clarified it in the first post. If we have to resort to misinterpreting what it is to denounce it, that's not a good sign.



VGPolyglot said:
DonFerrari said:

He is probably looking from USA POV where socialists and other left wing call themselves liberals while requiring more government intervention.

That's not what socialism is though, I clarified it in the first post. If we have to resort to misinterpreting what it is to denounce it, that's not a good sign.

I agree, and also left wing in USA shouldn't call themselves liberals since they want a lot of intervention... and although one can't reduce socialism to be always based on government intervention you know that is what most people have been exposed to.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network
DonFerrari said:
VGPolyglot said:

That's not what socialism is though, I clarified it in the first post. If we have to resort to misinterpreting what it is to denounce it, that's not a good sign.

I agree, and also left wing in USA shouldn't call themselves liberals since they want a lot of intervention... and although one can't reduce socialism to be always based on government intervention you know that is what most people have been exposed to.

I actually think it's liberals calling themselves left-wing, rather than leftists calling themselves liberals.



VGPolyglot said:
DonFerrari said:

I agree, and also left wing in USA shouldn't call themselves liberals since they want a lot of intervention... and although one can't reduce socialism to be always based on government intervention you know that is what most people have been exposed to.

I actually think it's liberals calling themselves left-wing, rather than leftists calling themselves liberals.

You may think they shouldn't be calling themselves left-wing, I won't complain about it, but when they want the government to interfere on economy on ever increasing size and frequency and also the "social freedom" they want is also through lawmaking to make things they don't like forbidden.... nothing the american "liberals" preach are really liberal in concept independent of what name or ideology they say they have.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
VGPolyglot said:

I actually think it's liberals calling themselves left-wing, rather than leftists calling themselves liberals.

You may think they shouldn't be calling themselves left-wing, I won't complain about it, but when they want the government to interfere on economy on ever increasing size and frequency and also the "social freedom" they want is also through lawmaking to make things they don't like forbidden.... nothing the american "liberals" preach are really liberal in concept independent of what name or ideology they say they have.

Government intervention is not necessarily left-wing though, if the goal of the intervention is to reduce income inequality then sure, but some times it is done to break up unions, cut social services, etc.



VGPolyglot said:
DonFerrari said:

You may think they shouldn't be calling themselves left-wing, I won't complain about it, but when they want the government to interfere on economy on ever increasing size and frequency and also the "social freedom" they want is also through lawmaking to make things they don't like forbidden.... nothing the american "liberals" preach are really liberal in concept independent of what name or ideology they say they have.

Government intervention is not necessarily left-wing though, if the goal of the intervention is to reduce income inequality then sure, but some times it is done to break up unions, cut social services, etc.

I agree, intervention isn't limited to be right or left-wing... but it certainly isn't liberal to look at an ever growing intervention from government.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Leadified said:

" That doesn't really make capitalism to be at risk." -> "You mean governments that wanted to keep their power gone and intervened???"
You just proved my point.

Revolution happens when society cannot take it anymore, violence becomes a viable solution. When you try to shove issues like inequality or exploitation under the rug like it's nothing, all it says to me is that capitalism can no longer solve these problems so their supporters choose to ignore them. 

I disagree with your premise given the evidence I've provided so I don't think we can go further than this.

I don't know how to put it simpler to you that government instilling fear because they want to keep their power is totally different than capitalism being at risk... the socialist countries fall by themselves and capitalism was thriving at the same time... so it's hard to say it was at risk.

Sure, the violence was so needed that they had to kill their own followers to keep their power... but that was the socialist countries.

You need to stop saying "No!" so much and brush up on your knowledge of contemporary history because it's clearly lacking. Capitalism is the system, which was challenged by Soviet socialism, one backed by the US and the other by the USSR. They fought in proxy wars to install their preferred systems and topple each other. Had the USSR won the Cold War, then American capitalism would have been history.

How is this so difficult for you to understand?

Last edited by Leadified - on 07 February 2018