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Forums - Politics Discussion - FCC is trying to end net neutrality. This is what it can look like.

DonFerrari said:

Governments shouldn't NEVER dictate the prices on the market. Reducing the price by law will only lead to breaks and other undesirable effects (they have done this several times in Brazil, to try and control the prices, every single time the result was worse).

One of the direct effects is that companies that can't achieve the dictated price won't even try to enter the market (so protect the companies already there) another one is that areas were the cost to implement isn't worth the dictate max price they won't even put infrastructure over there.

Electricity in most countries still are a big monopoly where you don't have any choice from who to buy from and the prices aren't very much friendly.

Again not so simple in this case. New companies need to buy up bandwidth in bulk from the few large companies that own the networks. This is not to protect the companies already there, this was to stop them from over charging to prevent competition.

It's working to keep medication costs low here. Government isn't all bad. It's needed to crack down on monopolies and cartel forming.

In an ideal world the government would own the infrastructure and lease it to any company with equal pricing while maintaining the infrastructure. Just as roads are public domain, country wide glass fiber network should be as well. The power grid is still being privatized though, with the government imposing caps on how much companies can charge, somehow hoping that will lead to innovation and improving the ageing power grid. Yet if they raise taxes to improve the power grid they might not be elected next term. Complicated issue.



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SvennoJ said:
DonFerrari said:

Governments shouldn't NEVER dictate the prices on the market. Reducing the price by law will only lead to breaks and other undesirable effects (they have done this several times in Brazil, to try and control the prices, every single time the result was worse).

One of the direct effects is that companies that can't achieve the dictated price won't even try to enter the market (so protect the companies already there) another one is that areas were the cost to implement isn't worth the dictate max price they won't even put infrastructure over there.

Electricity in most countries still are a big monopoly where you don't have any choice from who to buy from and the prices aren't very much friendly.

Again not so simple in this case. New companies need to buy up bandwidth in bulk from the few large companies that own the networks. This is not to protect the companies already there, this was to stop them from over charging to prevent competition.

It's working to keep medication costs low here. Government isn't all bad. It's needed to crack down on monopolies and cartel forming.

In an ideal world the government would own the infrastructure and lease it to any company with equal pricing while maintaining the infrastructure. Just as roads are public domain, country wide glass fiber network should be as well. The power grid is still being privatized though, with the government imposing caps on how much companies can charge, somehow hoping that will lead to innovation and improving the ageing power grid. Yet if they raise taxes to improve the power grid they might not be elected next term. Complicated issue.

Sven, no disrespect, but Mises proved some decades ago that the only monopoly/cartel that formed and sustained without the help of the government intervention was the diamond mining.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Ka-pi96 said:
DonFerrari said:

Sven, no disrespect, but Mises proved some decades ago that the only monopoly/cartel that formed and sustained without the help of the government intervention was the diamond mining.

umm... doesn't that kind of prove that governments are effective at stopping monopolies from forming then?

Nope, it proves that government are effective at creating then and favoring larger corporations.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/22/16691506/portugal-meo-internet-packages-net-neutrality-ajit-pai-plan

 

"The plan Khanna tweeted is called “Smart Net,” and as he correctly notes, it offers monthly subscription packages with names like Messaging, Social, and Video. Each of the five categories includes several big-name apps, including Netflix, FaceTime, Spotify, and Google Drive.

But based on Meo’s website, this doesn’t look like buying cable channels for the internet. It’s an add-on to general-purpose mobile subscriptions, which let you access any service — including the ones above. The idea is apparently that if you’re into apps like Snapchat and Facebook (or... LinkedIn, I guess), you pay around $8 a month to specifically get more “Social” data, so you can use your regular allotment for everything else. It looks a lot like the “Vodafone Pass” service in the UK, where subscribers can pay for unlimited access to a similar stable of services.

Techdirt explains this nuance, as does QuartzBut Khanna’s original tweet — the pithy statement that’s getting passed around context-free on social media — doesn’t. It implies that Meo is blocking or limiting certain “packages” unless you pay for them, the way that you can’t watch HBO without the right cable plan. His office didn’t immediately respond to an email asking for clarification.



http://www.9news.com/news/local/verify/verify-what-does-portugal-have-to-do-with-us-dumping-net-neutrality-/494021679

Portugal apparently does have net neutrality.

 

The claim from Rep. Khanna, repeated in the aforementioned stories with headlines like "If you want to see what America would be like if it ditched net neutrality, just look at Portugal" and "Without net neutrality in Portugal, mobile internet is bundled like a cable package" is false.

Not only does Portugal actually have net neutrality, the example is apples-and-oranges.

Splitting the "net into packages" or selling it "bundled like cable" means that you'd be blacked out from using certain services unless you pay extra.

If the FCC goes through with its plan to end the US net neutrality rule, it might be possible for companies to try to do something like that-- depending on what (if any) replacement rules the FCC puts into place.

But it's not happening in Portugal.

What's happening there is the same kind of thing that's already happening here, regardless of the rules on neutrality.

© 2017 KUSA-TV



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I've randomly been polling friends, co-workers, and family about net neutrality. It's amazing how many people aren't aware of this yet they're about to be affected big time.



Ka-pi96 said:
DonFerrari said:

Nope, it proves that government are effective at creating then and favoring larger corporations.

It doesn't, not even slightly. You'd have to have the opposite side of that, ie. how many monoplies have been formed due to government intervention, if you want to make that argument.

But regardless of whether governments are good at making them or not (they obviously are) the fact that there's only been a single one that's formed without government intervention clearly shows that government anti-monopoly rules are in fact working, otherwise there would have been a whole lot more of them.

Nope man... the proof Mises done is that Monopolies doesn't occur naturally (except the single case), every single case he could narrow to government intervention creating it one way or another, so the rules government make doesn't prevent any monopoly, but in some situations create or nourish then.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Ka-pi96 said:

It doesn't, not even slightly. You'd have to have the opposite side of that, ie. how many monoplies have been formed due to government intervention, if you want to make that argument.

But regardless of whether governments are good at making them or not (they obviously are) the fact that there's only been a single one that's formed without government intervention clearly shows that government anti-monopoly rules are in fact working, otherwise there would have been a whole lot more of them.

Nope man... the proof Mises done is that Monopolies doesn't occur naturally (except the single case), every single case he could narrow to government intervention creating it one way or another, so the rules government make doesn't prevent any monopoly, but in some situations create or nourish then.

But has capitalism ever existed without government intervention? People make that case for socialism/communism, but wouldn't that mean that one would also have to conclude the same for that?



VGPolyglot said:
DonFerrari said:

Nope man... the proof Mises done is that Monopolies doesn't occur naturally (except the single case), every single case he could narrow to government intervention creating it one way or another, so the rules government make doesn't prevent any monopoly, but in some situations create or nourish then.

But has capitalism ever existed without government intervention? People make that case for socialism/communism, but wouldn't that mean that one would also have to conclude the same for that?

Capitalism as we know, as far as I can analyse, always had some form of government presence. But on the case of Mises showing it wasn't just generic existence of government, was more like specific actions in specific markets that make room for a specific monopoly



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Ka-pi96 said:
DonFerrari said:

Nope man... the proof Mises done is that Monopolies doesn't occur naturally (except the single case), every single case he could narrow to government intervention creating it one way or another, so the rules government make doesn't prevent any monopoly, but in some situations create or nourish then.

That's just incorrect. Governments have prevented monopolies from forming before, that's a fact. I can even think of an example off the top of my head. When Morrisons purchased Safeway the government mandated that they sell some of their stores in certain areas to prevent them from having a monopoly in the area. There's doubtless plenty of other examples as well.

That is looking small picture and not looking at what conditions led to that situation.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."