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Forums - Gaming - "Video Games Are Too Expensive To Make!"

Cerebralbore101 said:

vivster said:

 Nintendo games and consoles are missing so many features and are using such low quality assets, it's an absolute joke to demand $60 for it.

Taking a 3D model from something around the PS3/Switch level and improving it to the 4K PC/XB1X level easily takes four times as long. And that's with a talented 3D modeler, texture artist, and animator. 3D assets are art and nobody becomes a Corradini over night. Just like learning to paint or draw takes years of practice, learning to make good 3D assets takes years of practice. Especially with organic models. 

 

Cerebralbore101 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Well, those get already made for the PC market, so the extra cost is nil, but it would be partially true if that wasn't the case. Partially, because the 3D models don't change much anymore these days unless you add some tesselation. To save in texels what's normally done nowadays is a reduction in vegetation, not model quality, as these need a lot more triangles to calculate than the character models now. The animation gets transplanted 1:1, so if you have it on one model you can reuse it on the other models as well, limiting the extra time by a lot. The textures however would be true... if those had more RAM to fit higher resolution or otherwise better textures. It's partially true for the XBox ONE, but the Pro just can't afford these.

We were talking about Nintendo games though, so those assets don't exist for PC. But yeah, if the game is already on PC, then it's just a matter of using the already existing PC assets for a 4K version on consoles. Could you elaborate on the bolded? I didn't realize that 4k was so advanced that saving texels was required. But what's this about cutting down on vegetation? The animation gets planted 1:1, but rigging the model can be a bigger hassle the more complicated the model is. And as we both know, without rigging no animation will work. 

On the quoted post you where just talking about ONE X and Pro, so I just talked about them.

Texel was a typo, I meant triangles, or polygons if you prefer. What I meant with the vegetation is that the character models don't get changed between low and high settings (maybe on ultra they do, but not always), just their textures do. To save on polygons there will instead be less grass or other vegetation or their models are simplified. At least that's what I got the last time I asked a modeler (about 2 years ago)



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I bet sony and Nintendo thinks otherwise,both companies earn a huge amount with there sp tripple a budget games.

Companies like EA just absolutely suck and are anti consumer.

Fifa alone makes them millions.



 

My youtube gaming page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/klaudkil

The title itself is enough to know what to expect.

Videogames are too expensive to make? Yea, of course not. If that would be the case nobody would make them, duh!

This deliberate phrasing to ensure the outcome of this witty judgmental disclosure. Of course companies target for steady profit. They re not charity. Instead of adressing the real underlying issues it is just another pointing, demonizing finger.

I understand. You have to cater to your fanbase. Correctly phrased it would get a little difficult to suck up to the audience. "Has making games become increasingly costlier, consequently increasing the risks involved?" An easy to answer question for sure, a short google search, no extensive and exhausting two weeks research, but the results are closely similar: some loose sheets with some colory lines drawn them.

It also gives an answer to why big companies focus on a smaller number of projects. The difference of 5 10 20 million investment to 50 100 200 million should be obvious to even the greatest math doofus.



Hunting Season is done...

Bofferbrauer2 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Taking a 3D model from something around the PS3/Switch level and improving it to the 4K PC/XB1X level easily takes four times as long. And that's with a talented 3D modeler, texture artist, and animator. 3D assets are art and nobody becomes a Corradini over night. Just like learning to paint or draw takes years of practice, learning to make good 3D assets takes years of practice. Especially with organic models. 

 

Cerebralbore101 said:

We were talking about Nintendo games though, so those assets don't exist for PC. But yeah, if the game is already on PC, then it's just a matter of using the already existing PC assets for a 4K version on consoles. Could you elaborate on the bolded? I didn't realize that 4k was so advanced that saving texels was required. But what's this about cutting down on vegetation? The animation gets planted 1:1, but rigging the model can be a bigger hassle the more complicated the model is. And as we both know, without rigging no animation will work. 

On the quoted post you where just talking about ONE X and Pro, so I just talked about them.

Texel was a typo, I meant triangles, or polygons if you prefer. What I meant with the vegetation is that the character models don't get changed between low and high settings (maybe on ultra they do, but not always), just their textures do. To save on polygons there will instead be less grass or other vegetation or their models are simplified. At least that's what I got the last time I asked a modeler (about 2 years ago)

Ah ok, yeah that makes sense in relation to the X and Pro. Vegetation absolutely does not need more polygons than character models. A good character model will be over 3k polygons (four sided until the game engine splits them up into tris, which doubles the count) even in the PS3/360 era. Up until last gen, trees, grass, and other vegetation was mostly comprised of alphamaps (Flat 1 dimensional polygons with a double sided texture). In a game engine vegetation usually doesn't take up much processing power, because from a distance the models are low poly, and up close they are rarely high poly. When making art for your game vegetation doesn't take long because you just have to make three or four trees, and then let whatever program you are using copy them 5,000 times. The same thing goes for grass and flowers. 

TL/DR: Vegetation is a breeze, and the thing you make the new hire do. Character models are the thing you put your veteran modeler on. 



Zoombael said:
The title itself is enough to know what to expect.

Videogames are too expensive to make? Yea, of course not. If that would be the case nobody would make them, duh!

This deliberate phrasing to ensure the outcome of this witty judgmental disclosure. Of course companies target for steady profit. They re not charity. Instead of adressing the real underlying issues it is just another pointing, demonizing finger.

I understand. You have to cater to your fanbase. Correctly phrased it would get a little difficult to suck up to the audience. "Has making games become increasingly costlier, consequently increasing the risks involved?" An easy to answer question for sure, a short google search, no extensive and exhausting two weeks research, but the results are closely similar: some loose sheets with some colory lines drawn them.

It also gives an answer to why big companies focus on a smaller number of projects. The difference of 5 10 20 million investment to 50 100 200 million should be obvious to even the greatest math doofus.

Yet people say this very thing all the time as a defense for the terrible DLC and microtransaction practices.  That's why the video exists.  If it was that obvious, no one would make the argument.  Even the greatest logical doofus can see that.

Lootboxes and DLC have nothing to do with their bottom lines or their level of charity.  These companies make their investment back with the base games alone usually with 2 million sales at 60$.  A game like Star Wars Battlefront II is going to hit that number before the E3 trailer is uploaded to youtube.  At that point, everything earned is pure profit, including DLC and MT's.  

Let's get real here - there's about as much "risk" in games like Call of Duty and Star Wars and Assassin's Creed and Lord of the Rings as there's risk in water not being wet.  What you're arguing is a logical fallacy.  Or, better put, turning on the video and covering your ears, shutting your eyes and shouting "WRONG."



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

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ClassicGamingWizzz said:
caffeinade said:
Games can get expensive, if you keep building engines for each game.

Look at what EA are doing, they are spending big on DICE and Frostbite, so they can consolidate their studios, by using unified tools.

Now all we need is for Valve (or someone else) to do the same, but with Source 2+, and for the rest of the industry.

And that is working so good for EA right? Bioware mass effect andromeda probelems because of the engine, Visceral deleted from the map with problems because of frostbite too. 

Visceral and Bioware had more issues with EA's corporate engine, than Frostbite.

Given enough time and training both projects would have even been fine.