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Forums - Sales Discussion - PSN still makes more money than the entirety of Nintendo Co., Ltd.

Insidb said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

The issue that I have with this thread is that the sources are not PNL/Balance sheets, so it's easy to move money around, or not take certain liabilities into account.

PSN has an income but almost no operating expenses since the other parts of Sony handle that. So it's easy to just say that PSN makes more money than the entirety of Nintendo, so long as you forget to count actual overall company expenses.

Then there's the fact that Sony doesn't just do games, and Nintendo pretty much just does games. Sony may have a higher net income, but how much of that is gaming related? Did they finally turn their non-gaming divisions around?

People are only looking at income statements, and not things like net income, assets, liabilities, operating expenses,.

Nintendo is worth somewhere around 10 billion dollars, and Sony is only worth somewhere around 22 million. Or at least that's according to last year's PNL/Balance sheets.

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/sne/financials?query=balance-sheet

http://financials.morningstar.com/balance-sheet/bs.html?t=NTDOY (This is in millions of JPY, but you get the picture)

But at any rate, I'm glad that both companies are healthy. I almost exclusively play on Sony and Nintendo platforms these days. Without them the most exciting games of this year wouldn't exist. 

Honestly, people don't really care too much about CFAs, unless there's true novelties therein. I think you were intially referring to revenue and not net income, which is what most non-investors do. In your case, I think it was just a typo, though. You're spot on with operating income, because debt can be serviced in a myriad of ways, and a proftable company will almost always be able to service its debt load.

Where was I referring to revenue and not net income? I'm a bit lost here, sorry. But yeah, a profitable company can have a load of debt, and so long as they make their debtors happy while maintaining profits, things will be good. But if they stop making money for too long they're toast. Nintendo knows this so they keep a ton of money in the bank for a rainy day. 



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Cerebralbore101 said:
Insidb said:

Honestly, people don't really care too much about CFAs, unless there's true novelties therein. I think you were intially referring to revenue and not net income, which is what most non-investors do. In your case, I think it was just a typo, though. You're spot on with operating income, because debt can be serviced in a myriad of ways, and a proftable company will almost always be able to service its debt load.

Where was I referring to revenue and not net income? I'm a bit lost here, sorry. But yeah, a profitable company can have a load of debt, and so long as they make their debtors happy while maintaining profits, things will be good. But if they stop making money for too long they're toast. Nintendo knows this so they keep a ton of money in the bank for a rainy day. 

I think Sony knows, but that mobile division had other ideas...



Insidb said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Where was I referring to revenue and not net income? I'm a bit lost here, sorry. But yeah, a profitable company can have a load of debt, and so long as they make their debtors happy while maintaining profits, things will be good. But if they stop making money for too long they're toast. Nintendo knows this so they keep a ton of money in the bank for a rainy day. 

I think Sony knows, but that mobile division had other ideas...

Literally just lol'd at that. So true. :D



Cerebralbore101 said:
Insidb said:

I think Sony knows, but that mobile division had other ideas...

Literally just lol'd at that. So true. :D

*fist bump*



Cerebralbore101 said:
Lawlight said:

You're looking at the last fiscal year. Sony's net income for Q2 was 130.9 billion yen. Nintendo's net income for Q1 + Q2 is 51.5 billion yen. Sony's Q1 profit was 80.9 billion yen.

So, for the current fiscal year, Sony is at 211.8 billion yen vs. Nintendo's 51.5 billion yen.

Want to add anything else?

Source? I'd like to be able to look over the PNL sheets myself, but they are always locked behind a paywall, or just not publicly available. I mean, how the heck did Sony manage to triple it's net income year over year? It just doesn't make any sense. There's likely some hidden debt, or some other liability that isn't being accounted for. Either that or they are printing money compared to last year. 

Well, every division made more money or less losses than last year except for mobile. The operating income for semiconductors' operating income especially went up 150B yen.

You already know the source - the companies' earning releases but here:

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/er.html

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2017/171030e.pdf



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Slarvax said:
There are more PS+ subs than Switches out there. PSN is gonna make more revenue than Nintendo for a few more years. Even if Nintendo's sub service takes off, the difference will still be huge.

As I showed, even without the PS+  revenue, PS would still have more revenue.



Cerebralbore101 said:

The issue that I have with this thread is that the sources are not PNL/Balance sheets, so it's easy to move money around, or not take certain liabilities into account.

PSN has an income but almost no operating expenses since the other parts of Sony handle that. So it's easy to just say that PSN makes more money than the entirety of Nintendo, so long as you forget to count actual overall company expenses.

Then there's the fact that Sony doesn't just do games, and Nintendo pretty much just does games. Sony may have a higher net income, but how much of that is gaming related? Did they finally turn their non-gaming divisions around?

People are only looking at income statements, and not things like net income, assets, liabilities, operating expenses,.

Nintendo is worth somewhere around 10 billion dollars, and Sony is only worth somewhere around 22 million. Or at least that's according to last year's PNL/Balance sheets.

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/sne/financials?query=balance-sheet

http://financials.morningstar.com/balance-sheet/bs.html?t=NTDOY (This is in millions of JPY, but you get the picture)

But at any rate, I'm glad that both companies are healthy. I almost exclusively play on Sony and Nintendo platforms these days. Without them the most exciting games of this year wouldn't exist. 

P.S. Sony's gaming division had an operating income of around 55 billion yen according to the source provided in the OP. Nintendo had around 40 billion yen in operating income, according to OP's source. Assuming that operating income is net income, Nintendo made around 15 billion yen less than Sony's gaming division. And that's in a console launch year to boot. 

That's not how a company's worth is determined. Amazon and Netflix are highly indebted companies and we all know they're a lot.

As for your PS, you're company 1 quarter of the PS division's OI to Nintendo's 2 quarters in this FY.



Lawlight said:

 

That's not how a company's worth is determined. Amazon and Netflix are highly indebted companies and we all know they're a lot.

As for your PS, you're company 1 quarter of the PS division's OI to Nintendo's 2 quarters in this FY.

I had a financials course in college, and that is indeed how a company's worth is determined. Total Assets - Total Liabilities = Company value. 

I'll have to look over the OP's documents later. I'll edit my post to accurately reflect the real difference between the two gaming divisions. 

Edit: Yeah, I see what you mean. That widens the gap between Sony's Gaming Division and Nintendo to 33 billion yen. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 04 November 2017

Cerebralbore101 said:
Lawlight said:

You're looking at the last fiscal year. Sony's net income for Q2 was 130.9 billion yen. Nintendo's net income for Q1 + Q2 is 51.5 billion yen. Sony's Q1 profit was 80.9 billion yen.

So, for the current fiscal year, Sony is at 211.8 billion yen vs. Nintendo's 51.5 billion yen.

Want to add anything else?

Source? I'd like to be able to look over the PNL sheets myself, but they are always locked behind a paywall, or just not publicly available. I mean, how the heck did Sony manage to triple it's net income year over year? It just doesn't make any sense. There's likely some hidden debt, or some other liability that isn't being accounted for. Either that or they are printing money compared to last year. 

Nintendo and Sony both have publicly-available statements of income available at their respective investor relations sites, which is how this information makes its way to you.

Regarding your question to me earlier, the reason I couldn't compare the net incomes of the PlayStation division and Nintendo as a whole is simple - everything else past that point is both pooled with the other divisions of the company in the case of Sony, and include things like foreign exchange gains/losses, interest on holdings, and taxes, among others in the case of both.



 
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TheWPCTraveler said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Source? I'd like to be able to look over the PNL sheets myself, but they are always locked behind a paywall, or just not publicly available. I mean, how the heck did Sony manage to triple it's net income year over year? It just doesn't make any sense. There's likely some hidden debt, or some other liability that isn't being accounted for. Either that or they are printing money compared to last year. 

Nintendo and Sony both have publicly-available statements of income available at their respective investor relations sites, which is how this information makes its way to you.

Regarding your question to me earlier, the reason I couldn't compare the net incomes of the PlayStation division and Nintendo as a whole is simple - everything else past that point is both pooled with the other divisions of the company in the case of Sony, and include things like foreign exchange gains/losses, interest on holdings, and taxes, among others in the case of both.

Edit: Haha, the balance sheets I wanted are at the bottom of the sources you provided. It all checks out. Sony is just raking in the money this year. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 04 November 2017