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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox boss Response on Single-Player Games - Economics Are "Complicated"

DonFerrari said:
contestgamer said:

1 Million, wow, is the bar low or what. Why would a company bother working on a game to sell 1 million? That is an epic flop.

Up until this gen a 1M seller was considered a best seller.

I swear I've heard Capcom and Square complain about games selling 6 illion copies as failures. 1 million was a success in the mid 90's at best. It hasn't been since the turn of the century.



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Nautilus said:
contestgamer said:

1 Million, wow, is the bar low or what. Why would a company bother working on a game to sell 1 million? That is an epic flop.

Wut?What are you blabbing about?

And what i meant is that a game can be profitable at 1 million, such as these examples I just gave.If a game requires 500k to break even but ends up selling 1 million, then thats great news.Not every game needs to sell 10 millions, otheriwse this industry would have crashed and burned long ago.

And just to you know, by this point P5 sold around 2 million units, while Automata long passed 1 million(I think its at 1.5 million now), both being the best selling games for Atlus and Nier respectively.If it makes money, why wouldnt a company not make such game?

Because they can make a big budget multiplayer game that makes 10 times more.



JRPGfan said:
contestgamer said:

How many of them sold 10 million units? They werent that successful.   (edit: the 5 underlined above)

Horizon Zero Dawn sold 3.4m+ in less than 3months (FH3 did like 2.5m in its first 3months), for HZD was in the top 20-30 ranks on amazon many months after that. Its probably over 6m by now, and the new Expansion DLC might push sales futher. Its maybe not that likely, but it *could* hit 10m lifetime.

Uncharted 4 is already over 10m,... Last of Us (is at like ~12m ps3+ps4) so maybe it can too.

God of war & Spiderman probably under 10m, but still going to do well.

 

Also since when do you need to sell over 10m to be successfull?

Is FH3 a flop then? since probably around 3-3,5m or something? Halo 5 at like 5m?

FH3 and Halo 5 are flops, there's no way MS was hapy with 5 million for that franchise. At one point it was somewhat competitive with COD at least on it's own platform. Uc4 and LoU are at least moderate successes I'll concede that much. But anything under 7-8 million is a sure-fire flop, Capcom and Square have called some of their flagship games diappointing at those numbers and that was years ago. You should sell 8-10 mill+ to call a game successfull.



contestgamer said:
Nautilus said:

Wut?What are you blabbing about?

And what i meant is that a game can be profitable at 1 million, such as these examples I just gave.If a game requires 500k to break even but ends up selling 1 million, then thats great news.Not every game needs to sell 10 millions, otheriwse this industry would have crashed and burned long ago.

And just to you know, by this point P5 sold around 2 million units, while Automata long passed 1 million(I think its at 1.5 million now), both being the best selling games for Atlus and Nier respectively.If it makes money, why wouldnt a company not make such game?

Because they can make a big budget multiplayer game that makes 10 times more.

Which also costs 100 times more and are 100 times riskier, by trying to enter a market as red as blood.Not to mention that they would be passing a niche, one in which they can be somewhat safe that is going to be profitable AND sustainable.

And that logic is extremely flawed, not only because there are single player games that sell better than many multiplayer games or the "mainstream" ones, but that these popular games or genres are created when someone takes a chance.Nintendo, Sony, Square, Capcom and many others became the giants they are today because they invested in games that either popular back then or in genres that werent even created(and by default, not a slam dunk).



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

contestgamer said:
LivingMetal said:

So are you saying that they were unsuccessful titles that weren't worth the development time and resourses because they sold less than 10 millions units...?

Under around 7-8 million they're flops. Even Capcom and Square have said so much of their games that have sold only 6 million copies.

Really...?  Yet, they don't seem to have any problems developing and publishing games for quite some time now.  And as much as I have nothing to do with Capcom these day and with Dragon Quest being the only appealing franchise I care from Square (more so from the Enix side) as of recent, why should I care what they say? A plethora of other developers of single player games of competiting consoles have been churning out successful quality games left and right while not hitting the 10 million units sold mark.



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contestgamer said:
LivingMetal said:

So are you saying that they were unsuccessful titles that weren't worth the development time and resourses because they sold less than 10 millions units...?

Under around 7-8 million they're flops. Even Capcom and Square have said so much of their games that have sold only 6 million copies.

You are delusional. 8M can't be considered a flop at all even 5M can't. The most you can say about something that sells 5M is that it didn't achieve expectations, in case some people that have excessive expectations.

contestgamer said:
DonFerrari said:

Up until this gen a 1M seller was considered a best seller.

I swear I've heard Capcom and Square complain about games selling 6 illion copies as failures. 1 million was a success in the mid 90's at best. It hasn't been since the turn of the century.

You can swear all you like, you would still not find any source. What you can find is SquareEnix saying TR hadn't met their expectations when it was about 5M sold.

Do you know how to differentiate flop, failure, not meating expectative, etc?

Also if you would go from your perspective of flop about 90% or more of the games would be flop, and if that was true then the industry would have gone under long ago.

And even more laughable is you thinking that being MP make a game a 10M seller.

And again to the below 10M being a flop. By VGC tables we have only had 65 games that sold over 10M so far in history...

When Sony introduced the program for PlayStation in 1997, games could become Greatest Hits titles after selling at least 150,000 copies and being on the market for at least a year.[2] Minimum sales required eventually rose to 250,000.[3] When the program came to PlayStation 2 in 2002, games could become Greatest Hits titles after selling at least 400,000 copies and being on the market for at least 9 months.[4] Suggested retail prices of Greatest Hits titles were initially $24.99, but they now typically retail for $19.99. Though Sony-developed games are virtually guaranteed to eventually become Greatest Hits titles by meeting their sales and age requirements, 3rd party developers are not required to release their titles with a Greatest Hits label even if said titles meet the criteria. Additionally, Sony allows 3rd party developers some flexibility in the pricing of their own Greatest Hits titles, but most of them stick to the agreed-upon suggested retail price. Games that are multi-million sellers may become Greatest Hits titles much later than 9 months to maximize profits. It is also a common practice for a game to re-release on the Greatest Hits label at a close proximity to the release of that game's sequel or follow-up.

In 2006, Sony extended the Greatest Hits program to the PlayStation Portable.[5] To qualify, a title must be on the market for at least 9 months and have sold 250,000 copies or more. The Greatest Hits price for PlayStation Portable games typically begins at $19.99.

On July 28, 2008, the program was introduced on the PlayStation 3. A PlayStation 3 game must be on the market for 10 months and sell at least 500,000 copies to meet the Greatest Hits criteria. PlayStation 3 Greatest Hits titles currently sell at $29.99.

Since the PS4's release on November 15, 2013,[6] there have been four titles that have been named Greatest Hits for the PlayStation 4 with an as of yet unknown criteria for meeting the label.

 

SO it was 500k not even a million the target during PS3.

link to get you started https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greatest_Hits_(PlayStation)



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

contestgamer said:
LivingMetal said:

So are you saying that they were unsuccessful titles that weren't worth the development time and resourses because they sold less than 10 millions units...?

Under around 7-8 million they're flops. Even Capcom and Square have said so much of their games that have sold only 6 million copies.

LOL...oh my...

Let me see if i got your point, so the Xbox One according to your statistics, has a 100% Flop Rate seeing how the best selling game on the console is under 8m copies sold.

Am i right?



 

ThisGuyFooks said:
contestgamer said:

Under around 7-8 million they're flops. Even Capcom and Square have said so much of their games that have sold only 6 million copies.

LOL...oh my...

Let me see if i got your point, so the Xbox One according to your statistics, has a 100% Flop Rate seeing how the best selling game on the console is under 8m copies sold.

Am i right?

Well and every year the platform flops to sell 8M.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

 

ThisGuyFooks said:

LOL...oh my...

Let me see if i got your point, so the Xbox One according to your statistics, has a 100% Flop Rate seeing how the best selling game on the console is under 8m copies sold.

Am i right?

Well and every year the platform flops to sell 8M.

Welp!



I'll just make this as simple as possible. If the amount of earned revenue exceeds the development cost, marketing cost, platform cuts, and publishing cost, then the game is making a profit. A game can sell below 1 million and still be successful if it is not expensive to make.