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Forums - Politics - Hillary Clinton's memoir - it was Everyone Else Fault I lost...

Ljink96 said:
LivingMetal said:

Tell that to Hillary.

No tell that to us. We're entertaining it. She had what she had to say about her failed campaign. Let it end there. Humans, sheesh. She's got no power over any of us, we should be worried about Trump and his trash cabinet. You know, the people who can ACTUALLY screw our lives over?

And one can argue that it should have ended much earlier without Hilliary crying over a loss that most failed presidential candidates have gracefully conceded.  Or are others invading your... "safe space?"



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sethnintendo said:
irstupid said:

Both things that have drastically increased the more the Government has tried to 'fix' them. Anytime the government tries to fix things because they think it is too expensive for some or all, it ends up becoming way more expensive than before. With the more expensive school, they need to give out more grants, or make laws that banks have to give out more loans.

Then they will spin it to a victory somehow by saying "We gave away a million more grants this year than last year, or more people were able to get a school loan than ever before"

Meanwhile the schools knowing they now have a ton more potential students who can get grants/loans will just continue to increase prices, cause the government is basically guaranteeing that they will find a way to get kids to pay that.

I call bullshit.  Look at the state of Texas and college tuition here.  Good old George W and republicans took off the caps of tuition increase per year in the state of Texas.  You know what happened when the caps were removed?  Cost of tuition increased through the roof.

The college I went to in early 2000s (state not private) was about 3-4k in tuition per year.  It is about 10k in tuition alone per year now. I believe in the early 80s it was a few thousands if that to get a degree. 

https://www.depts.ttu.edu/financialaid/costToAttend.php

So much for letting the free market solve itself.  How's all those monopolies going now?  Why don't we just let companies form monopolies in telecom, cable, pharma, or any other industry.  What's the need of a trust bust?  You are so worried about getting ruled by the government you let all the companies merge into one big shit storm.  Have fucking fun because guess what?  Reality is shit

Caps on tuition don't solve the problem. A school can charge whatever the hell it wants, imo. If it costs too much, then people could not afford to go and enrollment would decrease, forcing them to reduce cost.

The reason they CAN raise the costs is because the government made it so that the poorest of the poor can go into huge debt. Like 90% of my friends all were paying for their school completely through loans. They and their families could not afford the school at all. Didn't matter if the school cost 3k a semester or 30k a semester, they would just get loans to cover it. No one got denied loans.

Now if they were more strick on handing out loans, or capping loan amounts, then schools could not charge whatever the hell they wanted. If I could only get a 20k a year loan, I could not afford to go to a 40k a year school. That school would be forced to lower its prices so they could fill enrollment. But since I can get a 40k a year loan, the school can charge that amount. In both scenerios, my situation is the same. I'm not from a richer or poorer family, I dont' have anymore or less colateral, my cosigner is the same, ect. They just let me take out a bigger loan for no reason other than I said the school I am going to costs more. The schools KNOW that students can take out rediculous loans and thus they know they can raise tuition.

Your thinking is backwards. Don't cap the schools limit on charging tuition, the market will self regulate that. There are only so many rich people that could afford super high tuition. Cap the limit on loans though. WIth unlimited loans, essentially everyone becomes super rich, thus the schools charge/raise tuition as if everyone is super rich. They don't care that everyone graduates with 50k+ in loans, because they are guaranteed that money. Did you know you can declare bankrupcy on everything in life except school loans. So not only the schools, but the loaners are guaranteed to always get their money, thus why they hand it out like candy to anyone who asks.



Faust said:
i voted Jill Stein and have no regrets

Same here.

method114 said:
Shadow1980 said:




Finally, there's the Bernie Bros who either decided to vote third-party or sit at home on election day. I've never seen that much butthurt over a candidate losing the primary in my lifetime. It's not like the Dems pulled a Hubert Humphrey and put in a candidate that primary voters didn't support. Hillary got the most delegates. Bernie did better than anyone expected and showed that America may be ready for a real left-wing populist, but, unlike Obama, he never had the support of a majority of Democratic primary voters. Bernie Bros can make up all the excuses they want, but even in a squeaky clean primary Bernie would have lost. And when he lost, any real progressive worth his salt would have bit the bullet and pulled the lever for Hillary Rodham Clinton on election day, because no reasonable, thinking person who's left-of-center would ever think that she would be just as bad as Trump.


1. Emails were leaked showing the DNC favored Hillary and were in fact supporting her. They were taken to court over it and they basically said we don't have to be fair. Bernie supports were screwed over a fair primary race. So yes they stayed home and contributed to Hillary losing. That's not butthurt that's refusing to take part in the political game the DNC was playing and that they continue to play. The DNC has been recieving record low donations people are pissed and they refuse to acknowledge it.

2. Polls showed Bernie beating Trump by a wider margin than Hillary. At the end of the day we don't know what would have happened and the DNC contributed in robbing us of really finding out.

3. Any real American would have done the American thing and voted for the candidate they believed in or stayed at home and not vote at all. That's our right as Americans. We're not here to treat the election by saying "Well at least she's not as bad as that guy". If that's how you're voting step your game up and become a real American. Their are third party candidates you don't have to vote for Hillary because they tell you it's a waste. That's how they control the sheep.

^^^This, I refused to vote for Hillary after the DNC lied about them being fair and I voted for Jill Stein. I sometimes wish the DNC crashes and burns in hell and Bernie goes to another party.



Proud to be a Californian.

method114 said:
Shadow1980 said:




Finally, there's the Bernie Bros who either decided to vote third-party or sit at home on election day. I've never seen that much butthurt over a candidate losing the primary in my lifetime. It's not like the Dems pulled a Hubert Humphrey and put in a candidate that primary voters didn't support. Hillary got the most delegates. Bernie did better than anyone expected and showed that America may be ready for a real left-wing populist, but, unlike Obama, he never had the support of a majority of Democratic primary voters. Bernie Bros can make up all the excuses they want, but even in a squeaky clean primary Bernie would have lost. And when he lost, any real progressive worth his salt would have bit the bullet and pulled the lever for Hillary Rodham Clinton on election day, because no reasonable, thinking person who's left-of-center would ever think that she would be just as bad as Trump.


1. Emails were leaked showing the DNC favored Hillary and were in fact supporting her. They were taken to court over it and they basically said we don't have to be fair. Bernie supports were screwed over a fair primary race. So yes they stayed home and contributed to Hillary losing. That's not butthurt that's refusing to take part in the political game the DNC was playing and that they continue to play. The DNC has been recieving record low donations people are pissed and they refuse to acknowledge it.

2. Polls showed Bernie beating Trump by a wider margin than Hillary. At the end of the day we don't know what would have happened and the DNC contributed in robbing us of really finding out.

3. Any real American would have done the American thing and voted for the candidate they believed in or stayed at home and not vote at all. That's our right as Americans. We're not here to treat the election by saying "Well at least she's not as bad as that guy". If that's how you're voting step your game up and become a real American. Their are third party candidates you don't have to vote for Hillary because they tell you it's a waste. That's how they control the sheep.


View on YouTube

Relevant to the bolded.



irstupid said:
sethnintendo said:

I call bullshit.  Look at the state of Texas and college tuition here.  Good old George W and republicans took off the caps of tuition increase per year in the state of Texas.  You know what happened when the caps were removed?  Cost of tuition increased through the roof.

The college I went to in early 2000s (state not private) was about 3-4k in tuition per year.  It is about 10k in tuition alone per year now. I believe in the early 80s it was a few thousands if that to get a degree. 

https://www.depts.ttu.edu/financialaid/costToAttend.php

So much for letting the free market solve itself.  How's all those monopolies going now?  Why don't we just let companies form monopolies in telecom, cable, pharma, or any other industry.  What's the need of a trust bust?  You are so worried about getting ruled by the government you let all the companies merge into one big shit storm.  Have fucking fun because guess what?  Reality is shit

Caps on tuition don't solve the problem. A school can charge whatever the hell it wants, imo. If it costs too much, then people could not afford to go and enrollment would decrease, forcing them to reduce cost.

The reason they CAN raise the costs is because the government made it so that the poorest of the poor can go into huge debt. Like 90% of my friends all were paying for their school completely through loans. They and their families could not afford the school at all. Didn't matter if the school cost 3k a semester or 30k a semester, they would just get loans to cover it. No one got denied loans.

Now if they were more strick on handing out loans, or capping loan amounts, then schools could not charge whatever the hell they wanted. If I could only get a 20k a year loan, I could not afford to go to a 40k a year school. That school would be forced to lower its prices so they could fill enrollment. But since I can get a 40k a year loan, the school can charge that amount. In both scenerios, my situation is the same. I'm not from a richer or poorer family, I dont' have anymore or less colateral, my cosigner is the same, ect. They just let me take out a bigger loan for no reason other than I said the school I am going to costs more. The schools KNOW that students can take out rediculous loans and thus they know they can raise tuition.

Your thinking is backwards. Don't cap the schools limit on charging tuition, the market will self regulate that. There are only so many rich people that could afford super high tuition. Cap the limit on loans though. WIth unlimited loans, essentially everyone becomes super rich, thus the schools charge/raise tuition as if everyone is super rich. They don't care that everyone graduates with 50k+ in loans, because they are guaranteed that money. Did you know you can declare bankrupcy on everything in life except school loans. So not only the schools, but the loaners are guaranteed to always get their money, thus why they hand it out like candy to anyone who asks.

I agree with you 100%. Not just that but they now offer usselesclases that are more like hobbys than anything to teach and students still go and get loans for them. and even if you study something good, they pad out the time by adding mandatory diversity classes, some other liberal art and nonsense that is not focused at all with what you want to do.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

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What about the whole campain of Hillary being about "vote for me because I have a pussy"? trump at least made some promisses like bringing manufacture back to US (ok he will never be able to do it) that attracted people that are looking for jobs other than part-time bartender.



Imo bashing third party voters as idiots because they wanted to express anger at the establishment is way you guys lost the last election.

Democrats and progresisves dont own the Whitehouse...they have to get people to vote for them across the nation....not only in California.



Shadow1980 said:
method114 said:

1. Emails were leaked showing the DNC favored Hillary and were in fact supporting her. They were taken to court over it and they basically said we don't have to be fair. Bernie supports were screwed over a fair primary race. So yes they stayed home and contributed to Hillary losing. That's not butthurt that's refusing to take part in the political game the DNC was playing and that they continue to play. The DNC has been recieving record low donations people are pissed and they refuse to acknowledge it.

2. Polls showed Bernie beating Trump by a wider margin than Hillary. At the end of the day we don't know what would have happened and the DNC contributed in robbing us of really finding out.

3. Any real American would have done the American thing and voted for the candidate they believed in or stayed at home and not vote at all. That's our right as Americans. We're not here to treat the election by saying "Well at least she's not as bad as that guy". If that's how you're voting step your game up and become a real American. Their are third party candidates you don't have to vote for Hillary because they tell you it's a waste. That's how they control the sheep.

@ #1: So what if they favored her? Big whoop. They favored her in 2008 and she lost to Obama. When Obama pulled ahead, the superdelegates and the DNC put their support behind him. You do know that political parties are private institutions and their leadership and members can favor whoever the hell they want to, right? And FWIW, Sanders was and still is an independent, not a Democrat.

This is why Obama beat Hillary while Sanders lost against her:

Sanders just didn't have the support Obama did in 2008, and, except for a very narrow window in late March/early April, Sanders was always behind Hillary in the polls. Sanders lost fair and square.

@ #2: So what? Clearly most primary voters didn't care about general election polling at the time.

@ #3: And that attitude right there is part of the reason why we have Donald Trump sitting in the White House. You saw a Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich running for President. I saw an establishment Democrat and a dangerous, megalomaniacal man-child who coddles racists, thinks government exists to make life easier for the rich and harder for everyone who isn't rich, and who threatens to undo every progressive reform back to the New Deal and perhaps beyond. Anybody who didn't see a very real difference between Clinton and Trump, anyone who thought they were equally as bad or close to it, is blind.

 

LurkerJ said

 
View on YouTube

Relevant to the bolded.

Feh. That guy has no idea what he's talking about. When was the last time an honest-to-God left-wing Democrat in the vein of Bernie Sanders won a general election? Since the end of WW2, we've seen the following Democrats win the presidency: Truman, JFK, LBJ, Carter, Bill Clinton, and Obama. Of those seven men, how many of them were reasonably close to Sanders? Not a damn one.

 

Y'know, I really like Sanders. I've "Felt the Bern" long before it was popular. Many of his supporters were still in diapers when I first started supporting his ideals. I voted for him in the primary, and I would have voted for him time and time again if I lived in Vermont. But again, I knew that Trump was simply too dangerous to simply go "Well, Hillary sucks so I'm staying home/voting third-party." I may like Sanders, but I'm not an ideological purist, and I'm not suicidal. But some Bernie Bros helped put the round in the chamber because Hillary was "2centrist4me," and time will tell if Trump will pull the trigger and blow this country's metaphorical brains out or merely just shoot it in the foot.

Whe they tell me at a restaurant, we dont have coke, just pepsi, its the same thing, I always say no thanks. I rater have water.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Shadow1980 said:
method114 said:

1. Emails were leaked showing the DNC favored Hillary and were in fact supporting her. They were taken to court over it and they basically said we don't have to be fair. Bernie supports were screwed over a fair primary race. So yes they stayed home and contributed to Hillary losing. That's not butthurt that's refusing to take part in the political game the DNC was playing and that they continue to play. The DNC has been recieving record low donations people are pissed and they refuse to acknowledge it.

2. Polls showed Bernie beating Trump by a wider margin than Hillary. At the end of the day we don't know what would have happened and the DNC contributed in robbing us of really finding out.

3. Any real American would have done the American thing and voted for the candidate they believed in or stayed at home and not vote at all. That's our right as Americans. We're not here to treat the election by saying "Well at least she's not as bad as that guy". If that's how you're voting step your game up and become a real American. Their are third party candidates you don't have to vote for Hillary because they tell you it's a waste. That's how they control the sheep.

@ #1: So what if they favored her? Big whoop. They favored her in 2008 and she lost to Obama. When Obama pulled ahead, the superdelegates and the DNC put their support behind him. You do know that political parties are private institutions and their leadership and members can favor whoever the hell they want to, right? And FWIW, Sanders was and still is an independent, not a Democrat.

This is why Obama beat Hillary while Sanders lost against her:

Sanders just didn't have the support Obama did in 2008, and, except for a very narrow window in late March/early April, Sanders was always behind Hillary in the polls. Sanders lost fair and square.

@ #2: So what? Clearly most primary voters didn't care about general election polling at the time.

@ #3: And that attitude right there is part of the reason why we have Donald Trump sitting in the White House. You saw a Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich running for President. I saw an establishment Democrat and a dangerous, megalomaniacal man-child who coddles racists, thinks government exists to make life easier for the rich and harder for everyone who isn't rich, and who threatens to undo every progressive reform back to the New Deal and perhaps beyond. Anybody who didn't see a very real difference between Clinton and Trump, anyone who thought they were equally as bad or close to it, is blind.

 

LurkerJ said

 
View on YouTube

Relevant to the bolded.

Feh. That guy has no idea what he's talking about. When was the last time an honest-to-God left-wing Democrat in the vein of Bernie Sanders won a general election? Since the end of WW2, we've seen the following Democrats win the presidency: Truman, JFK, LBJ, Carter, Bill Clinton, and Obama. Of those seven men, how many of them were reasonably close to Sanders? Not a damn one.

 

Y'know, I really like Sanders. I've "Felt the Bern" long before it was popular. Many of his supporters were still in diapers when I first started supporting his ideals. I voted for him in the primary, and I would have voted for him time and time again if I lived in Vermont. But again, I knew that Trump was simply too dangerous to simply go "Well, Hillary sucks so I'm staying home/voting third-party." I may like Sanders, but I'm not an ideological purist, and I'm not suicidal. But some Bernie Bros helped put the round in the chamber because Hillary was "2centrist4me," and time will tell if Trump will pull the trigger and blow this country's metaphorical brains out or merely just shoot it in the foot.

Whe they tell me at a restaurant, we dont have coke, just pepsi, its the same thing, I always say no thanks. I rater have water.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

irstupid said:
sethnintendo said:

I call bullshit.  Look at the state of Texas and college tuition here.  Good old George W and republicans took off the caps of tuition increase per year in the state of Texas.  You know what happened when the caps were removed?  Cost of tuition increased through the roof.

The college I went to in early 2000s (state not private) was about 3-4k in tuition per year.  It is about 10k in tuition alone per year now. I believe in the early 80s it was a few thousands if that to get a degree. 

https://www.depts.ttu.edu/financialaid/costToAttend.php

So much for letting the free market solve itself.  How's all those monopolies going now?  Why don't we just let companies form monopolies in telecom, cable, pharma, or any other industry.  What's the need of a trust bust?  You are so worried about getting ruled by the government you let all the companies merge into one big shit storm.  Have fucking fun because guess what?  Reality is shit

Caps on tuition don't solve the problem. A school can charge whatever the hell it wants, imo. If it costs too much, then people could not afford to go and enrollment would decrease, forcing them to reduce cost.

The reason they CAN raise the costs is because the government made it so that the poorest of the poor can go into huge debt. Like 90% of my friends all were paying for their school completely through loans. They and their families could not afford the school at all. Didn't matter if the school cost 3k a semester or 30k a semester, they would just get loans to cover it. No one got denied loans.

Now if they were more strick on handing out loans, or capping loan amounts, then schools could not charge whatever the hell they wanted. If I could only get a 20k a year loan, I could not afford to go to a 40k a year school. That school would be forced to lower its prices so they could fill enrollment. But since I can get a 40k a year loan, the school can charge that amount. In both scenerios, my situation is the same. I'm not from a richer or poorer family, I dont' have anymore or less colateral, my cosigner is the same, ect. They just let me take out a bigger loan for no reason other than I said the school I am going to costs more. The schools KNOW that students can take out rediculous loans and thus they know they can raise tuition.

Your thinking is backwards. Don't cap the schools limit on charging tuition, the market will self regulate that. There are only so many rich people that could afford super high tuition. Cap the limit on loans though. WIth unlimited loans, essentially everyone becomes super rich, thus the schools charge/raise tuition as if everyone is super rich. They don't care that everyone graduates with 50k+ in loans, because they are guaranteed that money. Did you know you can declare bankrupcy on everything in life except school loans. So not only the schools, but the loaners are guaranteed to always get their money, thus why they hand it out like candy to anyone who asks.

Yes I know about the bankrupcy clause because I believe under George W Bush he made it harder to declare it.  Makes sense for credit card debit where someone racks up shit and trys to bail out but when you go to college and economy collapses then he have almost entire fucked generation.  Luckily the economy has staggered along and is semi supporting but the cost are too great.  I agree with you on basis yes lets keep having these colleges raise their rates and eventually on the rich and attend it thus forcing them to reduce their rates.

However, this would only happen in a perfect world.  How come most of Europe can afford to send their kids to school?  Because they pay higher tax.  What happened in USA is you turned education into a money making institution.  It only wants more money.  Just like our healthcare.  Just keep feeding the beast.

The next big collapse won't be adjustable rate mortgages as in 2008 it will be college debt.