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Forums - PC - Persona 5 is almost perfect now on PC using latest version of RPCS3.

Cerebralbore101 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Man, it's just crazy to me that allowing for more options and a wider range of people being able to enjoy the game can be seen as a bad thing. And guess what? DRM was going to be attempted, piracy or not. Remember the Xbox One, and its original plans? Guess what? That was not to avoid piracy, that was to avoid people getting used copies of games.

Just because piracy isn't the sole source of DRM, doesn't mean that it doesn't cause DRM. A causes B. C also causes B. Therefore A does not cause B? Not a valid argument. 

You're saying that it spells the end of consumers' rights, and I'm saying that it's happening either way. Maybe, it's the companies themselves that end consumers' rights through their own decisions and practices.



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Leadified said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

That's not the point. The point is it isn't needed. 

You would not need to print a PS1 if it's legal to emulate. You've offered a solution to a problem which no longer exists.

Right, but that's not the arguement people are making. They are saying that emulation is absolutely nesseccary for games preservation. But clearly it's not. 



VGPolyglot said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Just because piracy isn't the sole source of DRM, doesn't mean that it doesn't cause DRM. A causes B. C also causes B. Therefore A does not cause B? Not a valid argument. 

You're saying that it spells the end of consumers' rights, and I'm saying that it's happening either way. Maybe, it's the companies themselves that end consumers' rights through their own decisions and practices.

Yep. But we can vote with our wallets. MS was forced to change their DRM policy once they saw the consumer reaction. 



Cerebralbore101 said:
VGPolyglot said:

You're saying that it spells the end of consumers' rights, and I'm saying that it's happening either way. Maybe, it's the companies themselves that end consumers' rights through their own decisions and practices.

Yep. But we can vote with our wallets. MS was forced to change their DRM policy once they saw the consumer reaction. 

"by voting with our wallets" you mean by...not buying it? If so, it sounds like piracy is actually the way to go, that way we can show them that putting in DRM is not going to stop piracy anyway, so they'll just give in and relent, and we get consumers' rights back!



Cerebralbore101 said:
Zkuq said:

1. Thanks! Looks like too much reading to get a firm idea of whether the decision was sound or not, but I think I got a general idea of the case.

2. I guess I should have elaborated in the first place instead of assuming you'd understand what I meant. Technically my argument wasn't what you say it is, it just seems that way because of my poor expression. My bad.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for your answer to which part of emulators violates which copyrighted property, because I can't find any.

They violate the copyright on the bios code, by using it. 

They're not distributing it though. The user must provide it. Technically emulators aren't even dependent on actual firmware code; anything that provides similar functionality will most likely do. Thus the whole situation reduces to whether copyright (or rather, fair use, it seems) applies to APIs, to which the answer is no (see Oracle vs. Google). As far as my sense of justice is concerned, that is exactly the right decision. I don't know if there's any exceptions to this, but at least PCSX2 and RPCS3 work that way, and I would imagine others do too to avoid problems with copyright laws.



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VGPolyglot said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Yep. But we can vote with our wallets. MS was forced to change their DRM policy once they saw the consumer reaction. 

"by voting with our wallets" you mean by...not buying it? If so, it sounds like piracy is actually the way to go, that way we can show them that putting in DRM is not going to stop piracy anyway, so they'll just give in and relent, and we get consumers' rights back!

lol no I mean by choosing to buy another company's products. CEO's aren't bright enough to see it that way anyway. 



Azuren said:
People trying so hard to avoid buying the game and a platform to play it.

Right! I bet its the same people whowants Nintendo to go third party. 



Pocky Lover Boy! 

Zkuq said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

They violate the copyright on the bios code, by using it. 

They're not distributing it though. The user must provide it. Technically emulators aren't even dependent on actual firmware code; anything that provides similar functionality will most likely do. Thus the whole situation reduces to whether copyright (or rather, fair use, it seems) applies to APIs, to which the answer is no (see Oracle vs. Google). As far as my sense of justice is concerned, that is exactly the right decision. I don't know if there's any exceptions to this, but at least PCSX2 and RPCS3 work that way, and I would imagine others do too to avoid problems with copyright laws.

Yeah that ruling got changed by a higher court. https://www.cnet.com/news/court-sides-with-oracle-over-android-in-java-patent-appeal/



Jranation said:
Azuren said:
People trying so hard to avoid buying the game and a platform to play it.

Right! I bet its the same people whowants Nintendo to go third party. 

Who in their right mind would want that?



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Cerebralbore101 said:
Leadified said:

You would not need to print a PS1 if it's legal to emulate. You've offered a solution to a problem which no longer exists.

Right, but that's not the arguement people are making. They are saying that emulation is absolutely nesseccary for games preservation. But clearly it's not. 

The argument is for preserving software, not hardware. Obscure DOS and Atari games are prone to be lost due to lack of records not unlike early movies, without digital preservation virtually all of those game would have been lost.