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Forums - Politics - White Supremacist Drives Car into Counter-Protesters (20 Injured, One Dead)

NATO said:
VGPolyglot said:

How edgy of you.

You just don't get it because you, like many of your stance, can't step back far enough to evaluate the reality of it all.

Protesting doesn't change the opinions of apposing sides, it solidifies it and emboldens it.

Protesting against a hate group doesn't make that hate group go away, it just enforces their already stupid ideas and opinions, and gives them a sense of validity to what they believe - in the white supremacists case, the opposition just makes them fight back harder, and increase the ferrocity of their actions.

In instances where the perceived prevelance of a hate groups numbers are reduced, in actual fact all that has happened is the groups numbers have gone to ground, and hate groups hidden from plain sight are a much more dangerous group to deal with than the ones that you can point out in broad daylight.

This is almost always the case, because protesting does not encourage logical debate, protesting generally functions explicity to push an opinion or agenda on others and reject the opinion and agenda of others, it's a war of attrition, nobody ever wins, and without logical debate, opinions are never altered, they're just doubled down on and the rift between groups increases.

It isn't about who is right and who is wrong, because people never get to a point where they can explain why, it ultimately boils down to a shouting match, and the people who turned up in defense of either side, go home holding the same opinions they held the day before, only now they are a even less likely to question themselves.

 

exactly... dialogue is the only solution to these issues and even that might not work, but it is the only solution

 

calling people "evil" and ostracising them instead of engaging them on their beliefs is not only lazy but it strenghens their resolve and somehow people don't get that even though its so obvious



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Aeolus451 said:
Soundwave said:

You might be conservative, but majority of young people are not, if the election was only 18-24 year olds we can see from the exit polling that Trump loses that election easily. 

I'm saying racists are a *part* of his voter bloc, if you want to deny that go ahead, but I think deep down you know that's lie yourself. He doesn't want to alienate that group. 

And for a Republican every voter bloc counts because in all honesty they are not very easily able to win popular votes anymore. They need to eek out wins on electoral map technicalities to be able to win anymore. 

Americans under the age of 5 are already a majority minority population. In a few years, by 2020 majority of children under 18 will be a minority majority. That's the future of the American demographics ... as I've said in the long term Trump style politics are really in their last dying gasp. America is going to have to accept that it is already a massively multi-ethnic society.

I'm a right leaning libertarian. I don't like progressives/sjw, antifa types or the very religious "live as I do" right or the white supremacist types.

That's like saying that socialists are a part of democrat's voting bloc. That doesn't make the democrats socialists by association or anything like that. It's same with the white racists voting for some of the right. I don't believe there's alot of either. No one cares about their votes.

There's never been trump style politics before. It's a reaction to progressives in my opinion. Who knows if it die or live in. We can just agree to disagree on what the voter base will be like in the future. If you think it's all dems. lol

Democrats have won the majority vote 5/6 last elections. The electoral college won't save the current Republican party forever. 

The voter base in the future will be less white. That is not an opinion, that is simple demographic math. They cannot run on the same issues forever. 



 

double post



o_O.Q said:
NATO said:

You just don't get it because you, like many of your stance, can't step back far enough to evaluate the reality of it all.

Protesting doesn't change the opinions of apposing sides, it solidifies it and emboldens it.

Protesting against a hate group doesn't make that hate group go away, it just enforces their already stupid ideas and opinions, and gives them a sense of validity to what they believe - in the white supremacists case, the opposition just makes them fight back harder, and increase the ferrocity of their actions.

In instances where the perceived prevelance of a hate groups numbers are reduced, in actual fact all that has happened is the groups numbers have gone to ground, and hate groups hidden from plain sight are a much more dangerous group to deal with than the ones that you can point out in broad daylight.

This is almost always the case, because protesting does not encourage logical debate, protesting generally functions explicity to push an opinion or agenda on others and reject the opinion and agenda of others, it's a war of attrition, nobody ever wins, and without logical debate, opinions are never altered, they're just doubled down on and the rift between groups increases.

It isn't about who is right and who is wrong, because people never get to a point where they can explain why, it ultimately boils down to a shouting match, and the people who turned up in defense of either side, go home holding the same opinions they held the day before, only now they are a even less likely to question themselves.

 

exactly... dialogue is the only solution to these issues and even that might not work, but it is the only solution

Honestly, I think history says 'no it's not'. Dialogue is often not the only solution, in fact dialogue quite doesn't work. 

Black people didn't gain rights in this country by politely changing the minds of racists in debate time. 

Life is not a debate, this is a silly idealized notion, I realize this is a video game board and most posters here are young and such a notion makes "sense", but oh my poor children, that ain't how the real world works and you are going to come to learn that.

The real world is about conflict and struggle actually, that's how things get done. We may not like that because it makes us uncomfortable, but it is what it is. 



barneystinson69 said:
CGI-Quality said:

Eh, you cannot put BLM and the KKK in the same category. 

All of them promote violence one way or another. Of course one has a far worse more degrading and terrible history (KKK), but lets not say that BLM is a totally fair group. I mean they shot 6 police officers in Dallas a couple years back, and have spread violence too. Neither group helps unify America in any sort of fashion.

The guy that killed the six cops in Dallas wasn't a actual member of BLM.  But since its founding after the Civil War numerous actual KKK members have comitted numerous crimes against minorities.  Plus I'm pretty sure that most lychings of minorites that took place on a regular basis less then a hundred years ago involved some members of the KKK plus they actively promted such actions.



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Soundwave said:
o_O.Q said:

 

exactly... dialogue is the only solution to these issues and even that might not work, but it is the only solution

Honestly, I think history says 'no it's not'. 

Black people didn't gain rights in this country by politely changing the minds of racists in debate time. 

Life is not a debate, this is a silly idealized notion, I realize this is a video game board and most posters here are young, but that ain't how the real world works. 

The real world is about conflict and struggle actually, that's how things get done. We may not like that becuase it makes us uncomfortable, but it is what it is. 

 

"Black people didn't gain rights in this country by politely changing the minds of racists in debate time. "

 

no... white people did initially and then black people when they gained a higher position in society... or are you trying to say that black people gained freedom from a weaker position through violence and aggression?

 

"The real world is about conflict and struggle actually, that's how things get done."

 

meaning what? what is your proposed solution?



NATO said:
VGPolyglot said:

You should recognize though that the education system is also playing a part of the problem in the first place, there are private schools where the more wealthy go to, and there are many segregated schools due to the way that poverty leads to ghettos. So, the education system would have to be almost completely transformed.

There are people from all walks of life in a position to educate children on these issues, regardless of if they're children in ghettos or children going to 100k a year private schools.

While I do agree the school system in general is in dire need of an overhaul, it's current system shouldn't be used as a crutch or excuse for how children are educated, (or not educated, as the case often is) on these issues.

Well, it's not really an excuse, it's more of an explanation. Though yes, the unfortunate reality is that we have to do it with the cards stacked against us, and that's the cards we'll have to deal with.



Chris Hu said:
barneystinson69 said:

All of them promote violence one way or another. Of course one has a far worse more degrading and terrible history (KKK), but lets not say that BLM is a totally fair group. I mean they shot 6 police officers in Dallas a couple years back, and have spread violence too. Neither group helps unify America in any sort of fashion.

The guy that killed the six cops in Dallas wasn't a actual member of BLM.  But since its founding after the Civil War numerous actual KKK members have comitted numerous crimes against minorities.  Plus I'm pretty sure that most lychings of minorites that took place on a regular basis less then a hundred years ago involved some members of the KKK plus they actively promted such actions.

As I've already said, the KKK is a despicable group that has no right existing (one of my previous posts replying to CGI).



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

o_O.Q said:
Soundwave said:

Honestly, I think history says 'no it's not'. 

Black people didn't gain rights in this country by politely changing the minds of racists in debate time. 

Life is not a debate, this is a silly idealized notion, I realize this is a video game board and most posters here are young, but that ain't how the real world works. 

The real world is about conflict and struggle actually, that's how things get done. We may not like that becuase it makes us uncomfortable, but it is what it is. 

 

"Black people didn't gain rights in this country by politely changing the minds of racists in debate time. "

 

no... white people did initially and then black people when they gained a higher position in society... or are you trying to say that black people gained freedom from a weaker position through violence and aggression?

 

"The real world is about conflict and struggle actually, that's how things get done."

 

meaning what? what is your proposed solution?

Yes, some of the civil rights movement was aggressive. Most of it required courage and bravery to stand up against yelling mobs that didn't want black people in schools or on buses. That is not debate. That is grace/humility/courage and today when we see that we are ashamed of those yelling/hurling death threats/throwing items/etc. etc. America was shamed out of its more racist tendancies because black people would not back down and surrender their dignity any longer and from that painful realization a lot of people realized how ugly such behavior was. Not through conversation though. 

Shame can be one tool certainly to bring about pain. 

Against racism I don't think there is any singular magic bullet solution. It's a problem for society and will continue to be for the duration of our short time span on Earth. Things change, but it doesn't mean it happens on our schedule. I think in 100-200 years the concept of race will be rendered moot because of genetic engineering (ie: every parent will be able to select every physical trait of their child if they want, over time this will forever alter the human race). 

All I'm saying is life is not debate class. That is a notion of someone who probably has spent most of their life in a class room (I don't say that as an insult just a matter of fact, we have all been young and naive at some point). Read any history book and find me periods of human history where massive change occured on the back of a debate. 



Soundwave said:
Aeolus451 said:

I'm a right leaning libertarian. I don't like progressives/sjw, antifa types or the very religious "live as I do" right or the white supremacist types.

That's like saying that socialists are a part of democrat's voting bloc. That doesn't make the democrats socialists by association or anything like that. It's same with the white racists voting for some of the right. I don't believe there's alot of either. No one cares about their votes.

There's never been trump style politics before. It's a reaction to progressives in my opinion. Who knows if it die or live in. We can just agree to disagree on what the voter base will be like in the future. If you think it's all dems. lol

Democrats have won the majority vote 5/6 last elections. The electoral college won't save the current Republican party forever. 

The voter base in the future will be less white. That is not an opinion, that is simple demographic math. They cannot run on the same issues forever. 

Yes, and who's to say that those replacing the whites will vote democratic? By your logic, Obama shouldn't have been voted in 2008 ... cuz OMG, so many whites in 2008. Also, all of this racist talk and blaming, is being pushed by BLM, and blacks are a declining demographic.