I agree Cersie will die. But not this season. Season 8.

Imagine if a Greyjoy summons a Kraken in the final battle. That shit would be too hype.

Ka-pi96 said: hehe, book people complaining about the last couple seasons. I personally think the last couple have been the overall best seasons so far. So the further it gets from the books, the better!

Past book 3, the books became toxic for adaptation. They did an awesome job spreading ''Feast for Crows'' and ''Dance of Dragons'' within season 4-5-6. 

Only, there are major letdowns on the show, some of them were diluted from the highlights of the books:

1) Dorne, which could have been cut entirely to introduce Doran at the end of Season 6 when Dany is making alliances

2) Conflict between Jaime and Kevan, and Cersei getting rid of Jaime by sending him to Riverrun (and not Dorne)

3) They could have handled Stannis' demise more thoughtfully. I agree that he had to go in Season 5 to make room for Snow, but at least he bought time for Sansa to escape

4) They should have had followed the source material for the Ironborn's Kingsmoot, but I understand they already had Yara so Victarion was in no need of an introduction

5) Dany should've tame Drogon with the whip, instead of Drogon bashing in the Daznak Pit and burning Sons of the Harpy. The Sons of the Harpy are not even that important in the books.

What I can say though is that they handled Hodor's demise, the destroying of the Sept and the Battle of Meereen like bosses. And I really liked how they portayed Cersei's descent into madness and Jon's rise to the hero status. And giving Sansa the Jeyne Poole storyline was a good idea for character development, I think they just ran out of time in Season 5 because they could have had explored the North uprising much more.

Overall, I agree with some of the points Augen made, meaning that the show became much more straightforward in storytelling past Season 4, and it was clear some loose ends were tied in a clumsy way. What I liked about Game of Thrones is that you were witnessing the growth of hundreds of character in the midst of warfare, though the war is now ended in the books, along with the show, which makes the common denominator between all characters vanish. 

The sense of purpose, though, is much stronger in the show than it is in the books now. Especially because of Jon Snow witnessing the army of the dead and Cersei taking over King's Landing.

1. Dorne - In the show the sand Snakes murder house Martell and no one says anything.  This is insanity.  House Martell dates back to Nymeria's arrival in Wetseros and the unification of Dorne.  This is an ancient and beloved house in Dorne.  Do you really think the lower houses would accept this? That the house they've pledge fealty to for centuries is gone and they are ruled by House Sand?  Bastards may have more rights in Dorne, but they cannot rule.  The logical conclusion of the House Martell dying is the Sand Snakes being executed in brutal fashion and a struggle and possible civil war in the power vaccuum they would leave.  This isn't just me saying this, you see how even House Bolton (the second most powrful house in the north) replacing House Stark took a long time (Baelor, Red wedding, etc.) and had backing of powerful allies (namely the royal family) and yet still many houses in north still reject them "The North remembers".

2. Baratheon - This isn't the first time the show writers forgot that death is not some cheap trick to shock audiences. It has very real consequences and that is what makes it matter.  Stannis is not stupid and he loves his daughter, which is why he leave sher at the Wall and states if he dies she is the last Baratheon.  Him burning her makes zero sense because it means his reign would be short and meaningless and goes against his character.  Tywin states to his children how the family name an dlegacy is everything, that all it takes is a single generation to wipe away centuries of hard work.  When Stannis, the brilliant strategist, dies ask yourself, who rules the Stormlands?  Apparently no one does as the show ignores their very existence. What did the lower houses do, is it anarachy or did the peasnatry create an autonomous collective somehow.  It's lazy writing.

3. Space and time - It's important to note that Martin's core aspect is Westeros inhabits a real world with rules. one of those is people move on foot, horseback or ship.  This conveys how big the world is and is shown in the very first epsiode.  Robert sees Ned after years apart, why would he wait that long to see his best friend?  Because going from King's Landing to Westeros takes a long time, we're talking weeks to months depending on method of travel.  This briings me to Arya and how her story was well told in how long her journey was across the north and riverlands with the Hound, and finally arriving at Braavos.  This took seasons and really drove home "The World is big!" and then after botching Arya's training and a complete misunderstanding of the Faceless Men the most infuriating scene plays out.  Walder Frey is at the Twins and Arya appears and kills him.  I had to leave the room this was so stupid.  Arya somehow transported across a sea and continent to assassinate Frey?  It is cheap, it is lazy, and it makes the entire struggle have zero payoff.  If people can just get from one place to another so quickly it brings into question so many times when why didn't character X just go to place Y real quick.  These rules govern the logic and action of everything in this world.

4. Sansa - Sansa is accussed of murdering the king, which is a serious crime, so logically she is in hiding. Except, she isn't in the show, she visibly weds Ramsay and then wages war on House Bolton in the North in Winter (Winter is never properly shown in the show, imagine five to ten feet of snow, fighting be impossible).  Yet, not once in a show where time and distance seemingly become meaningless does anyone say "Hey, Sansa Stark is alive and well" to the Queen.  Doesn't matter, because we can get a spectacle battle and Ramsay gets killed in yet another empty revenge scene that felt like fan wish fulfilment out of touch with the themes and style of the source material. Nothing is easy in Westeros so you don't get this sort of lazy writing with everything neatly wrapped up.

5. Iron Islanders and geography and culture - One aspect Martin hammers home is how much a people are molded by their environment.  The Iron Islanders are rapers and reapers in part because they live on harsh islands.  This created the culture of raiding and dominating the riverlands in their past before Aegn burned Harenhall.  They have a disitnct culture with gods and attitudes about human life.  So we see two examples of the show writers complete misunderstanding of reality in Wetseros.  First Dany tells Asha  they have to change their entire culture, why? Because then they'll be acceptable "good guys" in 2016.  There is no way Iron Islanders would stand for this, and removes the challenge of compromise and dealing with different cultures.  The other aspect is Asha takes the ships and Euron says "build more" to his men.  What? With what? The abundant lumber supples on Pyke?  You going to raid and build ships then? Okay, see you about two years.  Oh wait, resources, time, and space ar emeaningless obstacles to bad writing.

I could go on, but the point is I fell in love with A Song of Ice and Fire for every bit of what it was. It is complicated, it is grounded, it is intricate, it feels real and lived in. The characters come across as people with real struggles and I enjoy reading about so many of them.  I love that this section of time is essentially another chapter in an even greater tale as that is exactly how history works.  This all rests upon rules and undertsanding of systems that fit together and make sense.  Once you strip that away Game of Thrones is little more than light entertainment with a massve budget.  What sticks with me as much as the big scenes are seeing the patterns and well crafted dialog that draw me in to a place that is alive.

Look, I'm not trying to take away anyone's enjoyment.  I've been a fan of this for now most of my life dating back years before the show.  it is the only xample that is personal to me and I have watched adpatations of other books and shrugged off book fans concerns.  People come at it from different angles and that is fine, I come at it from mine and I won't pretend I've enjoyed the dumbing down of a story that I adore.

guiduc said: Ka-pi96 said: hehe, book people complaining about the last couple seasons. I personally think the last couple have been the overall best seasons so far. So the further it gets from the books, the better! Past book 3, the books became toxic for adaptation. They did an awesome job spreading ''Feast for Crows'' and ''Dance of Dragons'' within season 4-5-6.  Only, there are major letdowns on the show, some of them were diluted from the highlights of the books: 1) Dorne, which could have been cut entirely to introduce Doran at the end of Season 6 when Dany is making alliances 2) Conflict between Jaime and Kevan, and Cersei getting rid of Jaime by sending him to Riverrun (and not Dorne) 3) They could have handled Stannis' demise more thoughtfully. I agree that he had to go in Season 5 to make room for Snow, but at least he bought time for Sansa to escape 4) They should have had followed the source material for the Ironborn's Kingsmoot, but I understand they already had Yara so Victarion was in no need of an introduction 5) Dany should've tame Drogon with the whip, instead of Drogon bashing in the Daznak Pit and burning Sons of the Harpy. The Sons of the Harpy are not even that important in the books.   What I can say though is that they handled Hodor's demise, the destroying of the Sept and the Battle of Meereen like bosses. And I really liked how they portayed Cersei's descent into madness and Jon's rise to the hero status. And giving Sansa the Jeyne Poole storyline was a good idea for character development, I think they just ran out of time in Season 5 because they could have had explored the North uprising much more. Overall, I agree with some of the points Augen made, meaning that the show became much more straightforward in storytelling past Season 4, and it was clear some loose ends were tied in a clumsy way. What I liked about Game of Thrones is that you were witnessing the growth of hundreds of character in the midst of warfare, though the war is now ended in the books, along with the show, which makes the common denominator between all characters vanish.  The sense of purpose, though, is much stronger in the show than it is in the books now. Especially because of Jon Snow witnessing the army of the dead and Cersei taking over King's Landing.

To dmeonstrate I'm not all negative, I love Hodor's conclusion and I actually got teary eyed.  Martin told the writers this scene so it fits perfectly and why it was the most impactful scene for me of all of season 6.

I do agree the source material is not made for adaptation.  the cast is massive and the show cut dozens of characters and sometimes mixed multiple characters into one.  This creates issues for me as Loras went from being one of th emost noble people in the books to a sad idiot in the show.  my sincere hope is twenty years from now the books are done and an exact adaptation via animation can be achieved.

You should watch Game of Thrones: Complete History and Lore, it's absolutely amazing!

Those are clips of moments throughout Essos and Westeros' history, narrated by some of the most iconic Game of Thrones actors. The one about the Dance of Dragons, told by Viserys (Harry Lloyd) is absolutely amazing. Or Robert's Rebellion seen by Stephen Dillane's Stannis (one of the most mesmerizing actors, such a shame the character is no longer with us).

And it is 100% faithful to the books.

I have the encyclopedia and I've regularly read histories and studied lineages and read supplementary materials.  This series is my biggest nerd obsession.  I always watched the stories read by the actors on the Blu Rays as well.  Love all that stuff.

Ka-pi96 said: hehe, book people complaining about the last couple seasons. I personally think the last couple have been the overall best seasons so far. So the further it gets from the books, the better!

That's fine.  I have a friend that prefers the Hobbit films over the Lord of the Rings.  I strongly disagree, but I understand people watch something for different reasons.  I hope this thread allows for praise and criticism.  I'm not going to attack you or anyone else if there is a plot point that infuriates me and makes you cheer.  I will criticzie the writers because I want it to be better.  We shall see how it unfolds in the coming weeks.

how did you come to that conclusion? i explained why i feel seasons 5 & 6 were worse than 1-4.

16 hours to go people. Winter is here