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Forums - General - Doe it really matter if God exists or not...?

 

I am

Theist 96 20.25%
 
Atheist 178 37.55%
 
Agnostic 96 20.25%
 
Spiritual but non theist 29 6.12%
 
Other 32 6.75%
 
God. 43 9.07%
 
Total:474
Superman4 said:
numberwang said:

Can you objectively state what is right and wrong?

Religion is as old as civilization, the oldest buildings are often supposed to be religious in nature (Stonehenge, Göbekli Tepe...)

Ethical monotheism has only one god. Polytheism or paganism did not claim moral laws and is irrelevant.

Long before religion you had no religion and had the same problems then as we do today, murder, rape, theft etc.

Well can you objectively state what is right or wrong? After all killing is prevalent in nature and nobody cares if the lion eats the lamb.



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numberwang said:
Superman4 said:

Long before religion you had no religion and had the same problems then as we do today, murder, rape, theft etc.

Well can you objectively state what is right or wrong? After all killing is prevalent in nature and nobody cares if the lion eats the lamb

Animals kill other Animals for food, we do the same. Killing for sport is wrong. Also I cant think of any animals that kill their own for food. Killing is a part of survival, when it becomes a part of sport or entertainment than it is wrong.



o_O.Q said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

In that case you are saying that people can't learn about objective morality without believing in a diety. That's a completely different statement from "If God does not exist, then objective morality does not exist." 

 

no that's not what i said at all... its a more complex issue than you appear to realise

thought has to also be placed into the best method for communicating these ideas

At this point you need to spell your position out in good old fashioned propositional logic. You know, if P then Q, and if not P then not Q. That sort of stuff. I'm not the only one that is confused over what your position is here. Why not just find out what behavioral patterns are more productive, and then teach them directly? Why are Gods needed for morality? What makes the existance of Gods necessary for the existance of Objective Morality? 




numberwang said:
kowenicki said:

 

If you can't determine right from wrong then you lack empathy not religion.

We had empathy as a species way before we had religion.

There have been thousands of gods, I just chose to belive in one less than you.

etc

etc

 

Can you objectively state what is right and wrong?

Religion is as old as civilization, the oldest buildings are often supposed to be religious in nature (Stonehenge, Göbekli Tepe...)

Ethical monotheism has only one god. Polytheism or paganism did not claim moral laws and is irrelevant.

Are you kidding me? Horus would weigh the hearts of the dead against a feather of truth. If their sins were greater than the weight of the feather they'd be fed to a crocodile/hippo monster. Euthypro's dilemma asks whether moral laws are something prescribed by the gods, or whether they are something followed and enforced by the gods. Just about EVERY pagan religion on the planet has had a system of ethics. 

Do yourself a favor and read up on Egyptian moral law. It's called Maat. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ethics.htm



I didn't read your post because it was to long, and my American attention span is to short to read it fully, however I personally do not care if god exists. If he does, I would not worship him. If he attempts to smites me down, than I will conquer him with my superior knowledge and strength.



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Superman4 said:
numberwang said:

Well can you objectively state what is right or wrong? After all killing is prevalent in nature and nobody cares if the lion eats the lamb

Animals kill other Animals for food, we do the same. Killing for sport is wrong. Also I cant think of any animals that kill their own for food. Killing is a part of survival, when it becomes a part of sport or entertainment than it is wrong.

There are vegetarians who would call eating meat an evil act. Where is your morality now?



Cerebralbore101 said:
o_O.Q said:

 

no that's not what i said at all... its a more complex issue than you appear to realise

thought has to also be placed into the best method for communicating these ideas

At this point you need to spell your position out in good old fashioned propositional logic. You know, if P then Q, and if not P then not Q. That sort of stuff. I'm not the only one that is confused over what your position is here. Why not just find out what behavioral patterns are more productive, and then teach them directly? Why are Gods needed for morality? What makes the existance of Gods necessary for the existance of Objective Morality? 


 

"Why not just find out what behavioral patterns are more productive, and then teach them directly?"

 

several reasons - for one as i've said most of these concepts are very complex and, therefore, have to be encoded into stories to convey the meanings in a more effective way

 

also have you ever disobeyed good advice that was conveyed to you? i'm guessing that's the case since everyone does, however, you'd be more compelled to follow certain advice if that advice transcends your subjective view of the world or is assigned to something that transcends your subjective view of the world

 

and that's all a god is in this context - something that transends the limited subjective scope humans are plagued with

 

that's why in the past there were gods for many of the intangible concepts we deal with that appear to be constants such aphrodite for love and ares for war 



Kristof81 said:
o_O.Q said:

well generally but that doesn't account for sociopaths or people who simply decide to revoke that social arrangement and that's where the problem of the subjetivity of individuals comes from

Of course. Thanks to our intelligence, our behaviours are more complex than any other creature on this planet. We have common trades as well as unique ones to our species (including all sorts of psychological issues). But there's a striking correlation between moral behaviour of group animals (like us) and their intelligence, so why would we be any different? 

 

yes intelligence fosters moral behavior to some extent since inidividuals come to understand that if they work together they can achieve much more than they can alone

however, with that also comes the capacity for sociopathic destructive behavior, its not just a positive attribute with regards to morality



o_O.Q said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

At this point you need to spell your position out in good old fashioned propositional logic. You know, if P then Q, and if not P then not Q. That sort of stuff. I'm not the only one that is confused over what your position is here. Why not just find out what behavioral patterns are more productive, and then teach them directly? Why are Gods needed for morality? What makes the existance of Gods necessary for the existance of Objective Morality? 


 

"Why not just find out what behavioral patterns are more productive, and then teach them directly?"

 

several reasons - for one as i've said most of these concepts are very complex and, therefore, have to be encoded into stories to convey the meanings in a more effective way

 

also have you ever disobeyed good advice that was conveyed to you? i'm guessing that's the case since everyone does, however, you'd be more compelled to follow certain advice if that advice transcends your subjective view of the world or is assigned to something that transcends your subjective view of the world

 

and that's all a god is in this context - something that transends the limited subjective scope humans are plagued with

 

that's why in the past there were gods for many of the intangible concepts we deal with that appear to be constants such aphrodite for love and ares for war 

In that case I didn't misunderstand anything. Your position is literally that ethics can't be taught without attributing them to a god in a story. 



Rogerioandrade said:
Very personal question. For some people it matters, for other it doesn´t matter. It´s just about individual approach to spirituality. Each one has its own.

The real question is..... does it matter to you if other people believe or not in God? I think this is the point where the subject really gets weird.

Well I think mandatory worshiping some god whatever this concept is defined, its a dope concept but cant help out against some people stuborness. If they leave me be so I will.Amen.lol