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Forums - Gaming - Sony: MS "punched themselves out of the fight"

The things I stated years before the PS3's release are now echoed by most 360/PS3 engine developers.


Sure they are. Which is why I can find as many complaints about the PS3's architecture as you can find compliments praising it.




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rocketpig said:
The things I stated years before the PS3's release are now echoed by most 360/PS3 engine developers.


Sure they are. Which is why I can find as many complaints about the PS3's architecture as you can find compliments praising it.

Me over 3 years ago:

"It will probably take some time before developers manage to get the most out of this platform, as has for example also been the case with the classic Amiga chipsets. The early Amiga games don't compare well to the complex graphics used by for instance game like Elfmania or Lion Heart."

The Amiga had a very innovative design for its time, processing many different tasks simulaneously by several custom chips. This freed up a lot of CPU time on the main CPU and added a lot of performance. 

Also regarding to the complaints:

"I understand that games developers may not be too fond of the idea of having to learn new ways to write their software."

So the complaints I were expecting are being echoed as well.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Care to rebut my other post? It sure is convenient how you dodge the tough posts (you know, the ones that call you out for blatant falsities) while focusing on easily argued posts like my last one.

... Still waiting for you to argue Legend's link and still waiting for you to finally admit that GT5p is not 1080p, despite the fact that you keep touting it as such in opposition of my continued links proving that it is not.




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rocketpig said:
MikeB said:
Legend11 said:
MikeB said:
I agree, XBox was prematurely discontinued and all XBox exclusives were released early to push a maximum amount of XBox fans towards the platform within an as short as possible timespan. The 360 did not receive enough testing and planning, everything looks like a rush job regarding the 360.

I foresee troubled times for the 360, the PS3 indeed proving to be much more powerful, the PS3 proving to have a better longterm games line-up, Blu-Ray indeed pushing HD DVD out of the market. Microsoft's FUD and Hype will probably backfire, fans will feel themselves fooled for spreading the gospel. I know one fanboy (a game reviewer!) who publicly called me names because I stated RRoD problems were widespread and he repeated and furiously defended the Microsoft Gospel that hardware issues are within industry standards and only his and others launch units were flawed (eventually he couldn't handle it for being wrong, asked his account to be deleted, will others feel similarly?).

Proving to be much more powerful? You mean with the multiplatform games with the majority giving the 360 the edge? If the PS3 was really a lot more powerful it would show even if games aren't developed for it first.


The 360 provides more tradional like technology, the later more demanding games are about on par. Early Atari ST to Amiga games were also slightly subpar, later games were far superior.

Judge the PS3 based on current exlcusives like Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction and Gran Turismo Prologue (1080p) but take into account my sig below.

Soon we will have Metal Gear Solid 4 (1080p), people will already know which platform is far more powerful this year, faster than was the case for the Amiga.


How did I know you would bring up the Amiga in this conversation?

What's funny is how you act as if Microsoft's position of using familiar technology and providing great developer tools to game creators is somehow a bad thing.

BTW, I still haven't seen your response to Legend's link. You list a bunch of exclusives while Legend provided a link talking about multi-platform games.

And for the last time, GT5p is not true 1080p. I've shown you the link proving otherwise multiple times yet you still reference it as being full high-def.


The Amiga experienced similar proplems by introducing for its time revolutionary technology (learning curve). The Atari ST early on had a larger install base (cheaper) and a small headstart.

The 360 dev tools are good for Windows/360 cross platform development, but not good for porting to 3rd party platforms. In part how the 360 development is easier is by encouraging lazy approaches, easy to implement dev tactics but far from optiomal in terms of potential. That's why 360 developers will see greater results if leading their projects on the PS3, it encourages devs to be efficient and think out their engine structure well yielding performance wise far superior results on the PS3 and better results on the PC/360 as well.

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue is a genuine 1080p game. It may not be FullHD, but it's certainly 1080p. The vertical resolution is more important to the human eye.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Sorry MikeB, total fail.

1920x1080 is 1080p. 1280x1080 is NOT. Stop dancing around the fucking subject and just admit it.

BTW, nice attempt to work lazy developers into the argument. Jesus Christ, you're so blinded by Sony's bullshit that it's nauseating. 




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First off, multiplatform titles are a piss poor way of comparing two systems technical capabilities. MGS2 ran better on the PS2 than the XBox, but that means jack shit about the 2 systems relative power. It's universally accepted that the XBox was more powerful than the PS2.

The best way is to compare what the console exclusives do at a technical level. No offense, but a lot of people here seem to think that a better looking game automatically means that it's superior technology. What technical tricks can console A do that console B can't? How many more pixels can we squeeze out of the system without reducing graphical fidelity? Those are the types of questions that should be asked if comparing 2 consoles.

As for GT5 Prologue not being true HD, that is true. 1080p is a buzzword. All it simply refers to is 1080 pixels of vertical resolution. There are a lot of different 1080p HD standards ("FullHD" or "TrueHD" being 1920x1080). Either way, GT5 Prologue runs at 1280x1080p with 2xAA. That's a lot of pixels. 50% more than 720p. Even more when you consider that games like Gears of War don't have AA, and Halo 3 runs at ~1060x640. That said, there's a lot to be desired from GT5 Prologue's graphics. The cars are insanely detailed, but the tracks could use some sprucing up. Though, it's still the best looking racing game out right now.

Personally, I don't think either console has shown that it can out-muscle the other. Although, I am inclined to believe that the PS3 has a little more potential than the XBox360, if all it's bottlenecks can be overcome with some good programming.



bobobologna said:
First off, multiplatform titles are a piss poor way of comparing two systems technical capabilities. MGS2 ran better on the PS2 than the XBox, but that means jack shit about the 2 systems relative power. It's universally accepted that the XBox was more powerful than the PS2.

The best way is to compare what the console exclusives do at a technical level. No offense, but a lot of people here seem to think that a better looking game automatically means that it's superior technology. What technical tricks can console A do that console B can't? How many more pixels can we squeeze out of the system without reducing graphical fidelity? Those are the types of questions that should be asked if comparing 2 consoles.

As for GT5 Prologue not being true HD, that is true. 1080p is a buzzword. All it simply refers to is 1080 pixels of vertical resolution. There are a lot of different 1080p HD standards ("FullHD" or "TrueHD" being 1920x1080). Either way, GT5 Prologue runs at 1280x1080p with 2xAA. That's a lot of pixels. 50% more than 720p. Even more when you consider that games like Gears of War don't have AA, and Halo 3 runs at ~1060x640. That said, there's a lot to be desired from GT5 Prologue's graphics. The cars are insanely detailed, but the tracks could use some sprucing up. Though, it's still the best looking racing game out right now.

Personally, I don't think either console has shown that it can out-muscle the other. Although, I am inclined to believe that the PS3 has a little more potential than the XBox360, if all it's bottlenecks can be overcome with some good programming.

100% agree, especially the bolded part. I own a PS3 and enjoy the console. I'm just not blinded by "OMG Teh C3ll Bluray RSX!". But it's going to be difficult to convince me that it's miles ahead of the 360 hardware-wise. Each machine has its advantages and disadvantages.




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@ RocketPig

Sorry MikeB, total fail.

1920x1080 is 1080p. 1280x1080 is NOT. Stop dancing around the fucking subject and just admit it.

704x480, 640x480 and 720x480. All 480p standards.

1080i can be a resolution of 1920×1080, but the HDV standard 1440×1080 pixels is also 1080i. Just read some HDV articles (both 720p and 1080i is supported) before upsetting yourself any further.

It's all so simple...



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

MikeB said:

@ RocketPig

Sorry MikeB, total fail.

1920x1080 is 1080p. 1280x1080 is NOT. Stop dancing around the fucking subject and just admit it.

704x480, 640x480 and 720x480. All 480p standards.

1080i can be a resolution of 1920×1080, but the HDV standard 1440×1080 pixels is also 1080i. Just read some HDV articles (both 720p and 1080i is supported) before upsetting yourself any further.

It's all so simple...


Yeah, okay.

Again, 1080p is 1920x1080. GT5p does not run at that resolution. Just fucking admit this and we can both move on. Why are you bringing up 480p and 1080i? They are different fucking resolutions that have nothing to do with this conversation.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

bobobologna said:

As for GT5 Prologue not being true HD, that is true. 1080p is a buzzword. All it simply refers to is 1080 pixels of vertical resolution. There are a lot of different 1080p HD standards ("FullHD" or "TrueHD" being 1920x1080). Either way, GT5 Prologue runs at 1280x1080p with 2xAA.

TrueHD refers to an audio codec, Dolby TrueHD:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueHD 



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales