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Who won?

Microsoft 244 8.59%
 
Nintendo 1,837 64.64%
 
Sony 761 26.78%
 
Total:2,842
gatito on 17 June 2017
SuperBott said:

E3 Conferences Ranked! Destructoid user data reformatted.

Lol @ 'Hate + Okay'

polls just don't lie 



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JWeinCom on 17 June 2017
Jranation said:
SuperBott said:

E3 Conferences Ranked! Destructoid user data reformatted.

Wow! Nintendo killing it! But im surprised with Sony! 

I'm really curious about the Hate vs OK breakdown for Microsoft... 

VideoGameAccountant said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Handheld consoles are, surprisingly enough, still consoles

Really don't get the TVs are dying therefore PS5 will fail thing though. I mean... WTF? Where do you even get something like that?

First, to Ka-pi, why did Sony do well this generation? If you compare 2016 to 2009 (about 3 years in to their respective generations) both hardward and software sales are DOWN. Every system is doing poorly except the 3DS and the PS4. Almost all the increase in PS4 hardware and software can be explained by the decline in Microsoft's hardware and software. This mean's the PS4's success is due not to some fabulous business maneuver but due to consolidation. Sony would have been in dire straights if Microsoft didn't create a DMR Kinect machine. A lot of people who think Sony is doing so well seem to ignore this fact.

As to your comment: Playstation is tethered to the TV with no way out. Sony needs to escape the shrinking box (this isn't an issue for Microsoft as they are turning their consoles into entertainment PCs). Fewer and fewer people are buying or watching TV. So any system tethered to a TV will suffer. The Switch is a transition. It can easily become just a mobile console once the bottom falls out. But Sony doesn't have any kind of plan. Sony is basically sticking with the PS4 and hoping it works out. For comparison, this would be like having factories in a warring South American country, and instead of getting the hell out, you double down your investment. 

Sony hasn't been able to compete in a handheld space with Nintendo. The PSP lost to the DS and the Vita crashed and burned. However, the market is moving towards mobile gaming. Since Sony can't compete, what are their options? Stay on the sinking ship or try to get into portables again? Even if Sony makes a Switch like system, would their core accept that? This would mean the PS5 wouldn't be much stronger than the PS4, which would leave Sony fans very upset. 

Sony is a lot like Sega in the last legs of its console run. Sega was living in a time long gone. They wanted to make arcade games in the home. The Dreamcast is still an awesome system for arcade games. Nevertheless, the market didn't accept it. Now Sony is doing the same thing. They are making "cinematic" games, but the market is moving away from that. The arcades were absorbed by the home console (which started the "war for the living room." ). Now, the home console is being absorbed by the handheld console as performance has hit its peak. Sony wants to keep making cinametic games of Gen 5,6 and 7, but the market is moving away from that. Even if they do release a Switch clone, will Sony have the right games? Probably not.

Why would your average consumer want a PS4 or a PS5 when they can buy a Switch they can play anywhere? Why buy a PS4 or PS5 when you don't really need a TV anyway (which is where we are going based on the data). So how does Sony compete? Too many analysis look at the present. "Sony is doing well now so they will do well in the future." Kind of like "The Wii U did bad so the Switch will do bad" And we all know how that turned out.

TL;DR - TVs are dying and Sony is tethered to the TV. Consoles are being absorbed by handhelds and Sony has never been able to compete in this space. Sony will struggle to make a Switch clone as their core wont accept a minimal upgrade in power. Sony is like Sega in they are in the wrong generation. 

Your post is at least a decade early, and probably won't ever be accurate.  TV sales are going down, because we saw a huge surge in TVs with HD (less so when they were introduced and moreso as the came down in price), and 4K isn't as enticing a proposition.  

But, that doesn't change the fact that virtually every household in the US at least (and I believe most of the western world) has a TV in it.  Even if people aren't buying new ones, they're not chucking the old ones out the window.

There are still enough TVs and enough people interested in large scale big budget shiny games to make the market healthy.  And it will be that way at least till the PS5 comes out.



VideoGameAccountant on 18 June 2017
Ka-pi96 said:
VideoGameAccountant said:

First, to Ka-pi, why did Sony do well this generation? If you compare 2016 to 2009 (about 3 years in to their respective generations) both hardward and software sales are DOWN. Every system is doing poorly except the 3DS and the PS4. Almost all the increase in PS4 hardware and software can be explained by the decline in Microsoft's hardware and software. This mean's the PS4's success is due not to some fabulous business maneuver but due to consolidation. Sony would have been in dire straights if Microsoft didn't create a DMR Kinect machine. A lot of people who think Sony is doing so well seem to ignore this fact.

As to your comment: Playstation is tethered to the TV with no way out. Sony needs to escape the shrinking box (this isn't an issue for Microsoft as they are turning their consoles into entertainment PCs). Fewer and fewer people are buying or watching TV. So any system tethered to a TV will suffer. The Switch is a transition. It can easily become just a mobile console once the bottom falls out. But Sony doesn't have any kind of plan. Sony is basically sticking with the PS4 and hoping it works out. For comparison, this would be like having factories in a warring South American country, and instead of getting the hell out, you double down your investment. 

Sony hasn't been able to compete in a handheld space with Nintendo. The PSP lost to the DS and the Vita crashed and burned. However, the market is moving towards mobile gaming. Since Sony can't compete, what are their options? Stay on the sinking ship or try to get into portables again? Even if Sony makes a Switch like system, would their core accept that? This would mean the PS5 wouldn't be much stronger than the PS4, which would leave Sony fans very upset. 

Sony is a lot like Sega in the last legs of its console run. Sega was living in a time long gone. They wanted to make arcade games in the home. The Dreamcast is still an awesome system for arcade games. Nevertheless, the market didn't accept it. Now Sony is doing the same thing. They are making "cinematic" games, but the market is moving away from that. The arcades were absorbed by the home console (which started the "war for the living room." ). Now, the home console is being absorbed by the handheld console as performance has hit its peak. Sony wants to keep making cinametic games of Gen 5,6 and 7, but the market is moving away from that. Even if they do release a Switch clone, will Sony have the right games? Probably not.

Why would your average consumer want a PS4 or a PS5 when they can buy a Switch they can play anywhere? Why buy a PS4 or PS5 when you don't really need a TV anyway (which is where we are going based on the data). So how does Sony compete? Too many analysis look at the present. "Sony is doing well now so they will do well in the future." Kind of like "The Wii U did bad so the Switch will do bad" And we all know how that turned out.

TL;DR - TVs are dying and Sony is tethered to the TV. Consoles are being absorbed by handhelds and Sony has never been able to compete in this space. Sony will struggle to make a Switch clone as their core wont accept a minimal upgrade in power. Sony is like Sega in they are in the wrong generation. 

I still find it absolutely hilarious that somebody actually thinks that

Yeah, because unlike you, I can operate Google

https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/08/13/its-official-the-tv-industry-is-dying.aspx

According to data from The Acumen Report from DEFY Media, 90% of consumers aged 22 to 24 use social media as a top source of video content, 86% of the respondents go with YouTube, and 67% of them consider Netflix to be one of their main video sources. Cable and satellite TV came in fourth position in the survey, with 59% of consumers choosing it as one of their leading sources of video. 

http://adage.com/article/digitalnext/tv-die-stay-tuned/308618/

 

For today: Advertisers are spending, traditional networks are making money and all of this sounds like stuff you've heard before. But we're only talking about timing. Traditional (linear) TV audiences are declining at a significant rate, and they are practically aged out of key demographics. Cable customers are also declining. So, the question is when this shift will make a difference, not if.

http://www.multichannel.com/news/content/tv-ownership-declines-2009/411192

The average number of TVs in homes is on the decline, according to the Department of Energy's U.S. Energy Information Administration's most recent figures, while younger households have higher concentrations of broadband content-access devices.

According to its latest Residential Energy Consumption Survey, there are an average of 2.3 TVs per home in 2015, down from 2.6 in 2009.

 

In addition, a larger share of homes reported not using a TV set at all. In fact, the percentage doubled from 1.3% in 2009 to 2.6% in 2015.

Emphasis is mine. I point this out because someone was claiming "The decline of TV is due to a correction as it rose with HD TV purchases." This is wrong as there are more households without TVs. 

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/24/television-sets-dying-accenture-study.html

Instead, more than four out of 10 people said they would rather watch on a laptop or desktop computer, while 13 percent opted for their smartphone. The survey also found just 19 percent of survey takers used their TVs as the go-to device when watching sports games.

U.S. sales of TV sets during the back-to-school period between June and September have fallen 9% to $4.1 billion in the last three years alone, according to market research firm NPD Group. Large-screen TVs comprise much of the ongoing sales, noted Stephen Baker, VP-industry analysis at NPD.
"Sales of smaller-size TVs are declining because people aren't replacing the ones they have with televisions, they're replacing them with mobile devices," Mr. Baker said.
If you looked up for a minute, you'd see that TVs are fading out. The next generation is not buying TVs. As I said before, the iPhone generation is growing up. If they buy games, where do you think they'll gravitate. To play a PS4, you need a TV, and most Millennials don't want to lug it around. They don't need it if they are watching everything on their phone. Or will they buy a Switch which is cheaper than a PS4+TV and fits better into their lives? The new generation is going to want mobility. Sony isn't offering that. And Vue isn't going to save them as everyone is getting into streaming. Sony has shown they aren't able to keep up with other major companies. Apple and Samsung have been kicking their asses for years. Do you really think Sony can get that off the ground? 
I find it funny how everyone who disagreed with my post didn't have any reasons. No one had an argument. Just plug your ears, say LALALALA and hope everything will turn out fine. 


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Cloudman on 18 June 2017

From what I've seen so far, I'd say Microsoft had the best showing of the 3 and best overall (still missing Bethesda and Ubisoft, so this could change).

MS just had the most amount to show. They had so many games that I lost count, and they covered a lot of ground as well, showing many different genres and showing they really tried this E3. At times, they mirrored Sony in terms of just bringing the games. It may have been rocky at times, but it turned out to be quite well.

That isn't to say it was a great show, it had some major flaws. To me, MS this year was like Regigigas of Pokemon. Good show, but hindered by its slow start. It took about of the show to take off, but it sure did. Not bad MS.

Meanwhile, Sony and Ninten only had good shows. As I started watching the other shows besides Nintendo's, I was feeling more and more that their style of presentation is something I prefer more, and that felt more apparent during Sony's event. I could only feel awkward watching the Uncharted trailer with it's weird audio issues and it only grew more from the silence in the crowd. It was a bit painful to watch this happen live. It somewhat killed the excitement for the game I feel, and that audio issue seemed to last a little while. It wasn't better though, focusing on games already revealed before, and having only 2 new game reveals, Monster Hunter and Shadow of the Colossus , as far as I remember. That often noted joy of a live audience was lacking there as well, as I barely heard any cheers for MH or Shadow (I suppose it truly is a solely Japan focused game?) There were some highlights from Sony's show (Detroit and Spiderman), but... the show just felt lacking.


Ninten's show wasn't that great either. It was the opposite of MS's show, too short, and that bone was lacking some prime meat. Kirby and Yoshi are cool, but rather weak new announcements, which really felt... more of the same from before. Seeing more on other games like XC2 and Mario were great, but... we already know about those games. Metroid Prime 4 and a confirmed core RPG pokemon game were great announcements, but... the show overall was lacking. It could have used more announcements. Personally, I am likely more disappointed because I feel Nintendo needed to have an excellent showing to help drive the Switch, and it didn't happen. I hope it doesn't hurt them in the coming months, and I hope they reveal more later on in more directs.

So yeah... I give it to MS (so far) but overall, pretty poor E3 this year, which is crazy to think.



 

              

Dance my pretties!

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zogs88 on 19 June 2017

i think microsoft won, but just cause the thirdies, and thats is not necessary good for xbox.



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gatito on 19 June 2017

Is this the biggest and most accurate poll ever?



VideoGameAccountant on 25 June 2017
Ka-pi96 said:
VideoGameAccountant said:

Yeah, because unlike you, I can operate Google

https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/08/13/its-official-the-tv-industry-is-dying.aspx

According to data from The Acumen Report from DEFY Media, 90% of consumers aged 22 to 24 use social media as a top source of video content, 86% of the respondents go with YouTube, and 67% of them consider Netflix to be one of their main video sources. Cable and satellite TV came in fourth position in the survey, with 59% of consumers choosing it as one of their leading sources of video. 

http://adage.com/article/digitalnext/tv-die-stay-tuned/308618/

 

For today: Advertisers are spending, traditional networks are making money and all of this sounds like stuff you've heard before. But we're only talking about timing. Traditional (linear) TV audiences are declining at a significant rate, and they are practically aged out of key demographics. Cable customers are also declining. So, the question is when this shift will make a difference, not if.

http://www.multichannel.com/news/content/tv-ownership-declines-2009/411192

The average number of TVs in homes is on the decline, according to the Department of Energy's U.S. Energy Information Administration's most recent figures, while younger households have higher concentrations of broadband content-access devices.

According to its latest Residential Energy Consumption Survey, there are an average of 2.3 TVs per home in 2015, down from 2.6 in 2009.

 

In addition, a larger share of homes reported not using a TV set at all. In fact, the percentage doubled from 1.3% in 2009 to 2.6% in 2015.

Emphasis is mine. I point this out because someone was claiming "The decline of TV is due to a correction as it rose with HD TV purchases." This is wrong as there are more households without TVs. 

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/24/television-sets-dying-accenture-study.html

Instead, more than four out of 10 people said they would rather watch on a laptop or desktop computer, while 13 percent opted for their smartphone. The survey also found just 19 percent of survey takers used their TVs as the go-to device when watching sports games.

U.S. sales of TV sets during the back-to-school period between June and September have fallen 9% to $4.1 billion in the last three years alone, according to market research firm NPD Group. Large-screen TVs comprise much of the ongoing sales, noted Stephen Baker, VP-industry analysis at NPD.
"Sales of smaller-size TVs are declining because people aren't replacing the ones they have with televisions, they're replacing them with mobile devices," Mr. Baker said.
If you looked up for a minute, you'd see that TVs are fading out. The next generation is not buying TVs. As I said before, the iPhone generation is growing up. If they buy games, where do you think they'll gravitate. To play a PS4, you need a TV, and most Millennials don't want to lug it around. They don't need it if they are watching everything on their phone. Or will they buy a Switch which is cheaper than a PS4+TV and fits better into their lives? The new generation is going to want mobility. Sony isn't offering that. And Vue isn't going to save them as everyone is getting into streaming. Sony has shown they aren't able to keep up with other major companies. Apple and Samsung have been kicking their asses for years. Do you really think Sony can get that off the ground? 
I find it funny how everyone who disagreed with my post didn't have any reasons. No one had an argument. Just plug your ears, say LALALALA and hope everything will turn out fine. 

I know how to use google just fine, thanks.

Ok so let's see shall we... firstly you fail to take in to account the fact that the majority of your sources (probably all in fact), are US only and US =/= the world.

Secondly, the majority of your sources are about viewership of traditional TV networks and so are completely irrelevant. Yes, streaming is having a big impact on traditional networks and will almost surely overtake it (if it hasn't already), but people can and do stream youtube, netflix, amazon prime etc to their TVs.

Thirdly, your sources fail to account for the fact that TV sets and computer monitors are for all intents and purposes the same thing. Can people watch traditional TV, stream to and connect video game consoles to their computer monitors? Yes on all accounts. I myself have a computer monitor as my only TV and it works fine for all of that.

So all your data suggests is that A. traditional TV networks are declining. B. people are less likely to own mutliple TVs. And C. tablets etc are more popular with young people.

A is completely irrelevant. And B/C in no way suggest that TVs will be dead by the time that the PS5 releases (2-3 years maybe). It suggests that the number of TVs sold may decline, sure. But something declining doesn't mean it's dying.

Oh and remember that part where I said US =/= the world? Well here's some worldwide data for you...

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan-business/2017/02/04/490785/global-lcd.htm

Sure, that fails to account for non-LCD TVs, which I'd assume is where any decline is, but that still shows a 1.6% increase in sales for LCD TVs.

And of course, there's this "WitsView forecasts that global TV shipments for 2017 will reach 225 million units, up 2.5% compared with the prior year."
http://press.trendforce.com/node/view/2707.html

More growth predicted for this year, huh? Again, that's only referring to LCD TVs. So even if their forecasts are correct there could still be a decline overall. But still, LCD TV shipments still growing really doesn't suggest that they'll be dead within the next couple of years...

First, I love how your impecable argument is freaking 1 percent growth. Oh, but next year its TWO PERCENT. WOW, what amazing numbers. Clearly this industry is growing by leaps and bounds. Nevertheless, you may want to look at why there was an increase. From your article:

 

Shipment growth was attributed to the strong sales in North America's distribution channels during the busy season, the increasing affordability of large TVs and the robust housing market in China, WitsView said in a press statement.

 

WitsView expects TV makers will increasingly focus on developing and promoting higher-margin products such as models featuring large 4K displays. Consequently, the average size of TV sets will expand significantly as well.

 

 

Models sized 50 inches and larger are expected to make up nearly 30 percent of total shipments for this year, while the share of UHD-resolution products in total shipments may reach 31.5 percent.

So you have anemic growth of 1.6 percent driven by purchases of larger TVs and China. This means people aren't buying new TV but they are just upgrading. The fact that the market is focusing on "higher-margin products," tells us that we are seeing the market focus on its best customers rather than reaching new consumers. As I noted with my data, its the younger generation who isn't buying TVs. If you compare this to data showing that TV viewership is declining (this trend is the same in Europe), then you can see market growth is due to buying better sets rather than an increase in penetration.

The worst part? This decline mirrors GPD growth in both the US and Europe. Basically, the TV market, which has declined in previous years, only keeping pace with GPD growth in 2016 and that seems to be driven to selling better sets.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-economic-growth-slowed-in-2016-to-1-9/

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/31/euro-zone-gdp-hits-05-in-last-quarter-of-2016-beating-estimates-january-inflation-at-18-unemployment-falls.html

And lastly, there is this

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/global-ad-growth-slow-year-tv-sales-drop-first-time-2009-1013366

Digital media has now surpassed linear TV to become the No.1 ad revenue category and will grow 14 percent in 2017 to $204 billion. "Within digital, the majority of advertising sales (54 percent) is now generated by impressions and clicks on mobile devices," the firm said. "Video and social formats will continue to drive digital advertising growth (30 percent or more) while paid search will grow double digit again (13 percent) to remain the #1 format."MAGNA forecasts media owners’ net advertising sales to grow by +3.7% to $505 billion

So where is the growth? It's not in traditional TVs but in mobile. Advertisers are moving there. If TV was this healthy industry as you implied, why are advertisers moving away from it. You missed this because you can't look at the big picture. You saw increased sales figures, didn't read what was written and say "No problem here." You missed what the numbers so plainly told you. You have a growth not from serving new customers but serving core customers. At the same time, advertising and viewership are down. Consumers are moving away from traditional TVs.

"Oh, but what about monitors. You clearly forgot about monitors. See, there is no problem because you can attach your PS4 to a monitor." Yes, because there isn't this platform that can be more powerful than the PS4 Pro, has more games, more variety of controllers and a greater range of prices. Yes, that platform does not exist. 

So let's take this full circle. You have the younger generation ditching TVs and the market catering to its best customers. So which console manufacturer is going to do better. Nintendo, who is focusing on mobile, or Sony who is sticking with traditional TVs. The answer is Nintendo. Sony is becoming a company for middle-aged men (as evidence by their plethora of slow walking games), and that's primarily who will buy these new TVs. Older generations are watching more TV, but the next generation is watching less and having fewer (if any) TVs. Sony won't be able to capture youths. They will have to appeal to an older demographic.  This is why their E3 is a trashfire. They are showing they aren't changing when the market is changing. 



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VideoGameAccountant on 25 June 2017
Ka-pi96 said:
VideoGameAccountant said:

First, I love how your impecable argument is freaking 1 percent growth. Oh, but next year its TWO PERCENT. WOW, what amazing numbers. Clearly this industry is growing by leaps and bounds. Nevertheless, you may want to look at why there was an increase. From your article:

 

Shipment growth was attributed to the strong sales in North America's distribution channels during the busy season, the increasing affordability of large TVs and the robust housing market in China, WitsView said in a press statement.

 

WitsView expects TV makers will increasingly focus on developing and promoting higher-margin products such as models featuring large 4K displays. Consequently, the average size of TV sets will expand significantly as well.

 

 

Models sized 50 inches and larger are expected to make up nearly 30 percent of total shipments for this year, while the share of UHD-resolution products in total shipments may reach 31.5 percent.

So you have anemic growth of 1.6 percent driven by purchases of larger TVs and China. This means people aren't buying new TV but they are just upgrading. The fact that the market is focusing on "higher-margin products," tells us that we are seeing the market focus on its best customers rather than reaching new consumers. As I noted with my data, its the younger generation who isn't buying TVs. If you compare this to data showing that TV viewership is declining (this trend is the same in Europe), then you can see market growth is due to buying better sets rather than an increase in penetration.

The worst part? This decline mirrors GPD growth in both the US and Europe. Basically, the TV market, which has declined in previous years, only keeping pace with GPD growth in 2016 and that seems to be driven to selling better sets.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-economic-growth-slowed-in-2016-to-1-9/

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/31/euro-zone-gdp-hits-05-in-last-quarter-of-2016-beating-estimates-january-inflation-at-18-unemployment-falls.html

And lastly, there is this

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/global-ad-growth-slow-year-tv-sales-drop-first-time-2009-1013366

Digital media has now surpassed linear TV to become the No.1 ad revenue category and will grow 14 percent in 2017 to $204 billion. "Within digital, the majority of advertising sales (54 percent) is now generated by impressions and clicks on mobile devices," the firm said. "Video and social formats will continue to drive digital advertising growth (30 percent or more) while paid search will grow double digit again (13 percent) to remain the #1 format."MAGNA forecasts media owners’ net advertising sales to grow by +3.7% to $505 billion

So where is the growth? It's not in traditional TVs but in mobile. Advertisers are moving there. If TV was this healthy industry as you implied, why are advertisers moving away from it. You missed this because you can't look at the big picture. You saw increased sales figures, didn't read what was written and say "No problem here." You missed what the numbers so plainly told you. You have a growth not from serving new customers but serving core customers. At the same time, advertising and viewership are down. Consumers are moving away from traditional TVs.

"Oh, but what about monitors. You clearly forgot about monitors. See, there is no problem because you can attach your PS4 to a monitor." Yes, because there isn't this platform that can be more powerful than the PS4 Pro, has more games, more variety of controllers and a greater range of prices. Yes, that platform does not exist. 

So let's take this full circle. You have the younger generation ditching TVs and the market catering to its best customers. So which console manufacturer is going to do better. Nintendo, who is focusing on mobile, or Sony who is sticking with traditional TVs. The answer is Nintendo. Sony is becoming a company for middle-aged men (as evidence by their plethora of slow walking games), and that's primarily who will buy these new TVs. Older generations are watching more TV, but the next generation is watching less and having fewer (if any) TVs. Sony won't be able to capture youths. They will have to appeal to an older demographic.  This is why their E3 is a trashfire. They are showing they aren't changing when the market is changing. 

You say TVs aren't selling to new customers, but how many new customers even exist? How many people don't already have TVs? Very very few. The vast majority of TV sales are going to be upgrades/replacements, but so what? People still want those upgrades/replacements. The mobile market which you seem to be so fond of is almost certainly the same, reliant on upgrades/replacements rather than new customers simply because practically everyone in the developed world already has one already.

Me: TV is declining

You: But look. Sales are up

Me: The increase is due to reselling sets

You:  Sales don't matter because everyone owns a TV

I love how in one post you destroyed your own argument from the previous post. If the sales numbers don't matter because most sales are replacements, then the only thing we have to look at is viewership, penetration, and arguments, and what would you know, all of those are down as I've said on the outset. Why even bring up this figure if it didn't matter. If you believe sales are only a function of TVs being replaced, then why bring up sales at all?

 You basically proved my argument. Thank you. 



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sethnintendo on 25 June 2017

I wanted to vote for Ouya or Oculus Rift.



gatito on 26 June 2017
sethnintendo said:
I wanted to vote for Ouya or Oculus Rift.

Did you travel to the future from 2013?