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Forums - Sports - NBA playoffs 2017

Chris Hu said:
PAOerfulone said:

Yyyeah, no. 
The Golden State Warriors were, are, and always will be Steph's team. They're at their absolute best when he's leading the charge and playing at the level he is capable of playing.

Yeah, nope again it became Durant's team last year already.  On top of all that when Curry has a off game his numbers are much worse then when Durant has a off game.

Because last night, the Cavs were hounding Curry like a dog and were all over him the entire night. They were cool with Durant going off the way he did, but they absolutely refused to let Curry go off, which is the way every team tries to play the Warriors. Because everything the Warriors do starts with Stephen Curry. Coincidence that when Steph went off in Game 3 of the WCF, the Warriors utterly destroyed the Rockets by over 40 points. Or Game 7 when Steph went off in the 3rd quarter, that was the end of it? Or Game 2 in this series when he broke the record and lit the Cavs up like a Christmas tree in the 4th quarter, it took a relatively respectable, striking distance game, and turned it into a blowout.
He's the engine that makes them GO.
And I kind of can't take Durant seriously as an alpha male/leader of a team when he joined the team, led by Stephen Curry, that beat him after he was leading them 3-1 with Russell Westbrook.



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PAOerfulone said:
Chris Hu said:

Yeah, nope again it became Durant's team last year already.  On top of all that when Curry has a off game his numbers are much worse then when Durant has a off game.

Because last night, the Cavs were hounding Curry like a dog and were all over him the entire night. They were cool with Durant going off the way he did, but they absolutely refused to let Curry go off, which is the way every team tries to play the Warriors. Because everything the Warriors do starts with Stephen Curry. Coincidence that when Steph went off in Game 3 of the WCF, the Warriors utterly destroyed the Rockets by over 40 points. Or Game 7 when Steph went off in the 3rd quarter, that was the end of it? Or Game 2 in this series when he broke the record and lit the Cavs up like a Christmas tree in the 4th quarter, it took a relatively respectable, striking distance game, and turned it into a blowout.
He's the engine that makes them GO.
And I kind of can't take Durant seriously as an alpha male/leader of a team when he joined the team, led by Stephen Curry, that beat him after he was leading them 3-1 with Russell Westbrook.

I can't take any of the big 4 seriously.  Durant because of what you stated and the other three because for two finals in a row now they have needed Durant to change their diapers when they crapped the bed in a critical game.  Said it before, will say it again, no Durant, no 2017 ring.  Cause all the same flaws that were exploited in their 2016 loss persist and outside Durant they have improved none.  They just have Durant to cover for them when they screw up.



Nuvendil said:
PAOerfulone said:

Because last night, the Cavs were hounding Curry like a dog and were all over him the entire night. They were cool with Durant going off the way he did, but they absolutely refused to let Curry go off, which is the way every team tries to play the Warriors. Because everything the Warriors do starts with Stephen Curry. Coincidence that when Steph went off in Game 3 of the WCF, the Warriors utterly destroyed the Rockets by over 40 points. Or Game 7 when Steph went off in the 3rd quarter, that was the end of it? Or Game 2 in this series when he broke the record and lit the Cavs up like a Christmas tree in the 4th quarter, it took a relatively respectable, striking distance game, and turned it into a blowout.
He's the engine that makes them GO.
And I kind of can't take Durant seriously as an alpha male/leader of a team when he joined the team, led by Stephen Curry, that beat him after he was leading them 3-1 with Russell Westbrook.

I can't take any of the big 4 seriously.  Durant because of what you stated and the other three because for two finals in a row now they have needed Durant to change their diapers when they crapped the bed in a critical game.  Said it before, will say it again, no Durant, no 2017 ring.  Cause all the same flaws that were exploited in their 2016 loss persist and outside Durant they have improved none.  They just have Durant to cover for them when they screw up.

Kinda crazy cavs could have been up 2-1, if only they had irving.



I laugh at all the reactions on social media, when GS won game 1 and 2 it was ''the refs fault'' and then game 3 cavs lost and they were silent



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quickrick said:
Nuvendil said:

I can't take any of the big 4 seriously.  Durant because of what you stated and the other three because for two finals in a row now they have needed Durant to change their diapers when they crapped the bed in a critical game.  Said it before, will say it again, no Durant, no 2017 ring.  Cause all the same flaws that were exploited in their 2016 loss persist and outside Durant they have improved none.  They just have Durant to cover for them when they screw up.

Kinda crazy cavs could have been up 2-1, if only they had irving.

Shoot forget Irving.  Just another Lovr-level player at guard would seal it.

That's the most depressing part of this.  In the playoffs we've seen flashes of quality play that show the Cavs - if they could just coalesce into a coherent team - are just one or two roster adjustments away from being great.  But none of that matters because they lack the cap space to get it done.  

The Warriors have basically done what the cap is specifically in place to avoid: lumped together 4 all stars AND a deep bench.  People talk about Miami being an unbalancing force but the trade off there was plainly obvious for those who looked: they lacked a deep bench and quality role players.  That's the whole point of the cap, more big names should come at a cost of depth that offsets the acquired star power and keeps things balanced.  The Warriors have managed to defy that and now the cap has actually made it *harder* for the league to correct its balance.



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Nuvendil said:
PAOerfulone said:

Because last night, the Cavs were hounding Curry like a dog and were all over him the entire night. They were cool with Durant going off the way he did, but they absolutely refused to let Curry go off, which is the way every team tries to play the Warriors. Because everything the Warriors do starts with Stephen Curry. Coincidence that when Steph went off in Game 3 of the WCF, the Warriors utterly destroyed the Rockets by over 40 points. Or Game 7 when Steph went off in the 3rd quarter, that was the end of it? Or Game 2 in this series when he broke the record and lit the Cavs up like a Christmas tree in the 4th quarter, it took a relatively respectable, striking distance game, and turned it into a blowout.
He's the engine that makes them GO.
And I kind of can't take Durant seriously as an alpha male/leader of a team when he joined the team, led by Stephen Curry, that beat him after he was leading them 3-1 with Russell Westbrook.

I can't take any of the big 4 seriously.  Durant because of what you stated and the other three because for two finals in a row now they have needed Durant to change their diapers when they crapped the bed in a critical game.  Said it before, will say it again, no Durant, no 2017 ring.  Cause all the same flaws that were exploited in their 2016 loss persist and outside Durant they have improved none.  They just have Durant to cover for them when they screw up.

BullShit with two capitals. 

The flaw the Warriors had in 2016 was their HEALTH. They weren't 100%. If they had all their pieces in 2016, they would have closed that series and won back-to-back titles. It took Draymond Green getting suspended, Andrew Bogut (their starting center and defensive anchor) getting injured in Game 5, the same game Draymond was suspended, and sitting the rest of the series, Iguodala suffering back spasms, and Steph already being injured for the Cavs to manage the comeback and just barely win Game 7 at the last minute to pull it off. If Draymond doesn't get suspended, if Bogut or one of those guys were healthy, if just one or two of those things went the Warriors' way, they would have finished the repeat. Because when both rosters were complete and healthy, the 2016 Cavaliers were absolutely no match for the 2016 Warriors.

Curry and Thompson were just as subpar and below average in the first two games of that series as they were in Game 3, and the Warriors blew the Cavs out of the building in those first two games because while they didn't have Durant, they had a deep, deep, DEEP roster of skilled and smart veterans coming off the bench that could step up and get the job done. Their bench/supporting cast wasn't just Iguodala and Livingston + whoever decides to show up on certain nights. Leandro Barbosa, Marreese Speights, Brandon Rush, Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, Ian Clark, and Andrew Bogut. They were a strong 11-12 guys deep. You can't compare that cast to Nick Young, Jordan Bell, Zaza Pachulia, Patrick McCaw, Kevon Looney, JaVale McGee, and David West and say they are even. There is no comparison. The former supporting cast FAR exceed the latter. I'll take that supporting cast all day, every day, over this one.
The narrative is has become so popular that Durant joined the 73 win team. 
But what everyone continues to fail to realize is; this is not the same team. They had to give up every last one of those guys, minus Clark, just to get him. That leads to a total makeover of the team, and new chemistry that has to be figured out.  It also created a problem with their depth that was exploited by Houston in the last series when Iguodala went down.

If there was no Durant in 2017, hard to say on who would have won that series, or if that would have been the series in the first place with how strong the Spurs and Rockets were last year. But they'd still have the same exact team that won 73 games and likely healthy, coming off back-to-back titles. Making them the automatic favorites. I can say that much.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 08 June 2018

PAOerfulone said:
Nuvendil said:

I can't take any of the big 4 seriously.  Durant because of what you stated and the other three because for two finals in a row now they have needed Durant to change their diapers when they crapped the bed in a critical game.  Said it before, will say it again, no Durant, no 2017 ring.  Cause all the same flaws that were exploited in their 2016 loss persist and outside Durant they have improved none.  They just have Durant to cover for them when they screw up.

BullShit with two capitals. 

The flaw the Warriors had in 2016 was their HEALTH. They weren't 100%. If they had all their pieces in 2016, they would have closed that series and won back-to-back titles. It took Draymond Green getting suspended, Andrew Bogut (their starting center and defensive anchor) getting injured in Game 5, the same game Draymond was suspended, and sitting the rest of the series, Iguodala suffering back spasms, and Steph already being injured for the Cavs to manage the comeback and just barely win Game 7 at the last minute to pull it off. If Draymond doesn't get suspended, if Bogut or one of those guys were healthy, if just one or two of those things went the Warriors' way, they would have finished the repeat. Because when both rosters were complete and healthy, the 2016 Cavaliers were absolutely no match for the 2016 Warriors.

Curry and Thompson were just as subpar and below average in the first two games of that series as they were in Game 3, and the Warriors blew the Cavs out of the building in those first two games because while they didn't have Durant, they had a deep, deep, DEEP roster of skilled and smart veterans coming off the bench that could step up and get the job done. Their bench/supporting cast wasn't just Iguodala and Livingston + whoever decides to show up on certain nights. Leandro Barbosa, Marreese Speights, Brandon Rush, Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, Ian Clark, and Andrew Bogut. They were a strong 11-12 guys deep. You can't compare that cast to Nick Young, Jordan Bell, Zaza Pachulia, Patrick McCaw, Kevon Looney, JaVale McGee, and David West and say they are even. There is no comparison. The former supporting cast FAR exceed the latter. I'll take that supporting cast all day, every day, over this one.
The narrative is has become so popular that Durant joined the 73 win team. 
But what everyone continues to fail to realize is; this is not the same team. They had to give up every last one of those guys, minus Clark, just to get him. That leads to a total makeover of the team, and new chemistry that has to be figured out.  It also created a problem with their depth that was exploited by Houston in the last series when Iguodala went down.

If there was no Durant in 2017, hard to say on who would have won that series, or if that would have been the series in the first place with how strong the Spurs and Rockets were last year. But they'd still have the same exact team that won 73 games and likely healthy, coming off back-to-back titles. Making them the automatic favorites. I can say that much.

My point was that the Warriors outside Durant still have road game quality ranging from spottty to utter crap.  They still have sections of games and entire games where they turn the ball over embarrassingly.  For the 4th finals series in a row the big three have proven incapable of having a solid baseline of quality, having games where they are just garbage.  They still get loose and commit stupid fouls when they are under pressure.  They sacrificed some of their depth.  But not all of their depth, they are still more well rounded than any team with 4 big names has any right to be.  Far more so than, say, the Miami Heat.

And no, I am 95% sure the Warriors in 2017 without Durant would have lost to the Cavs.  Durant cleaned up after them at multiple points, kept them in games where the Cavs would have steamrolled them.  And yes, they would have had their better supporting cast.  But the Cavs also made improvements.  Just not enough to offset the Warriors bringing in Kevin Durant.  

 

And I never put all that much stock in the 73 win thing.  It's not as impressive as the next 3 records behind that for a ton of reasons, most notably the number of cannon fodder teams.

 

Edit:  And don't give me that Green suspension nonsense.  The game may have been closer in 5 but they shredded them.  And Green was invisible in 6.  And then in 7, Green had a phenomenal night and all the Warriors needed was for ANYONE to step up.  None of them did, not one of them did.  The Cavs won, the Warriors lost.  They had the single highest odds scenario in basketball: Game 7, at home, after being up 3-1. They were outplayed, end of story.

Last edited by Nuvendil - on 08 June 2018

72-10 Bulls in 1996 and the 69-13 Lakers in 1971/72 were way better teams than the 73-9 Warriors in 2015/16. The Bulls and Lakers faced strong teams back in those days that played defence. Warriors jack up so many 3-point shots every game, where is the defence? The modern NBA is very weak in comparison to the strong competition the Bulls and the Lakers faced in the 1990s and the 1970s respectively.

Last edited by Dark_Lord_2008 - on 08 June 2018

Nuvendil said:
PAOerfulone said:

BullShit with two capitals. 

The flaw the Warriors had in 2016 was their HEALTH. They weren't 100%. If they had all their pieces in 2016, they would have closed that series and won back-to-back titles. It took Draymond Green getting suspended, Andrew Bogut (their starting center and defensive anchor) getting injured in Game 5, the same game Draymond was suspended, and sitting the rest of the series, Iguodala suffering back spasms, and Steph already being injured for the Cavs to manage the comeback and just barely win Game 7 at the last minute to pull it off. If Draymond doesn't get suspended, if Bogut or one of those guys were healthy, if just one or two of those things went the Warriors' way, they would have finished the repeat. Because when both rosters were complete and healthy, the 2016 Cavaliers were absolutely no match for the 2016 Warriors.

Curry and Thompson were just as subpar and below average in the first two games of that series as they were in Game 3, and the Warriors blew the Cavs out of the building in those first two games because while they didn't have Durant, they had a deep, deep, DEEP roster of skilled and smart veterans coming off the bench that could step up and get the job done. Their bench/supporting cast wasn't just Iguodala and Livingston + whoever decides to show up on certain nights. Leandro Barbosa, Marreese Speights, Brandon Rush, Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, Ian Clark, and Andrew Bogut. They were a strong 11-12 guys deep. You can't compare that cast to Nick Young, Jordan Bell, Zaza Pachulia, Patrick McCaw, Kevon Looney, JaVale McGee, and David West and say they are even. There is no comparison. The former supporting cast FAR exceed the latter. I'll take that supporting cast all day, every day, over this one.
The narrative is has become so popular that Durant joined the 73 win team. 
But what everyone continues to fail to realize is; this is not the same team. They had to give up every last one of those guys, minus Clark, just to get him. That leads to a total makeover of the team, and new chemistry that has to be figured out.  It also created a problem with their depth that was exploited by Houston in the last series when Iguodala went down.

If there was no Durant in 2017, hard to say on who would have won that series, or if that would have been the series in the first place with how strong the Spurs and Rockets were last year. But they'd still have the same exact team that won 73 games and likely healthy, coming off back-to-back titles. Making them the automatic favorites. I can say that much.

My point was that the Warriors outside Durant still have road game quality ranging from spottty to utter crap.  They still have sections of games and entire games where they turn the ball over embarrassingly.  For the 4th finals series in a row the big three have proven incapable of having a solid baseline of quality, having games where they are just garbage.  They still get loose and commit stupid fouls when they are under pressure.  They sacrificed some of their depth.  But not all of their depth, they are still more well rounded than any team with 4 big names has any right to be.  Far more so than, say, the Miami Heat.

That 73 win season literally shoots this point in the foot. Curry, Thompson, and Green have a championship under their resume in 2 trips, including that season. Do they lapse and have a stretch where they play sloppy and do stupid things. Yes, but what team doesn't? All of LeBron's teams have had those stretches, as well as every other great team in history. No team is perfect, no trio is perfect. But they were still good enough to get the job done 1 out of 2 times, which is far more chances than any other Big Threes get. 

And no, I am 95% sure the Warriors in 2017 without Durant would have lost to the Cavs.  Durant cleaned up after them at multiple points, kept them in games where the Cavs would have steamrolled them.  And yes, they would have had their better supporting cast.  But the Cavs also made improvements.  Just not enough to offset the Warriors bringing in Kevin Durant.  

And I am 100% sure that a 100% healthy Warriors team in 2016 would have finished the job, gone back-to-back, and possibly could have 3 peated as champions. Oh yeah, Durant sure was important for the Warriors in Games 1 & 2 where the Warriors crushed the Cavs. They would never have done that if they had their original roster... Oh wait a minute, they most likely would have won anyways. Because the year prior, the crushed them in the first two games by a margin EVEN BIGGER than last year's first two games. The Cavs would have made it more competitive with the pieces they added. But the Warriors didn't need Durant to beat them. He needed them FAR MORE than they need him. He just took them from an all-time great team, to arguably the greatest team ever. 

And I never put all that much stock in the 73 win thing.  It's not as impressive as the next 3 records behind that for a ton of reasons, most notably the number of cannon fodder teams.

There have only been 2 teams that have won over 70 games in a season. The other team had Michael Jordan on it. It's incredibly hard and equally impressive no matter who the competition was, (which included the Thunder with Durant and Westbrook.)

Edit:  And don't give me that Green suspension nonsense.  The game may have been closer in 5 but they shredded them.  And Green was invisible in 6.  And then in 7, Green had a phenomenal night and all the Warriors needed was for ANYONE to step up.  None of them did, not one of them did.  The Cavs won, the Warriors lost.  They had the single highest odds scenario in basketball: Game 7, at home, after being up 3-1. They were outplayed, end of story.

Still didn't address my other points about the injuries to Bogut, Iguodala, and Curry. So, if the Warriors were outplayed in 2016, then the Cavs were outplayed in 2015. You'd have to try hard to not outplay a team that is missing its Starting Center and has injuries to its Sixth Man, and Unanimous MVP.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 08 June 2018

PAOerfulone said:
Nuvendil said:

My point was that the Warriors outside Durant still have road game quality ranging from spottty to utter crap.  They still have sections of games and entire games where they turn the ball over embarrassingly.  For the 4th finals series in a row the big three have proven incapable of having a solid baseline of quality, having games where they are just garbage.  They still get loose and commit stupid fouls when they are under pressure.  They sacrificed some of their depth.  But not all of their depth, they are still more well rounded than any team with 4 big names has any right to be.  Far more so than, say, the Miami Heat.

That 73 win season literally shoots this point in the foot. Curry, Thompson, and Green have a championship under their resume in 2 trips, including that season. Do they lapse and have a stretch where they play sloppy and do stupid things. Yes, but what team doesn't? All of LeBron's teams have had those stretches, as well as every other great team in history. No team is perfect, no trio is perfect. But they were still good enough to get the job done 1 out of 2 times, which is far more chances than any other Big Threes get. 

And no, I am 95% sure the Warriors in 2017 without Durant would have lost to the Cavs.  Durant cleaned up after them at multiple points, kept them in games where the Cavs would have steamrolled them.  And yes, they would have had their better supporting cast.  But the Cavs also made improvements.  Just not enough to offset the Warriors bringing in Kevin Durant.  

And I am 100% sure that a 100% healthy Warriors team in 2016 would have finished the job, gone back-to-back, and possibly could have 3 peated as champions. Oh yeah, Durant sure was important for the Warriors in Games 1 & 2 where the Warriors crushed the Cavs. They would never have done that if they had their original roster... Oh wait a minute, they most likely would have won anyways. Because the year prior, the crushed them in the first two games by a margin EVEN BIGGER than last year's first two games. The Cavs would have made it more competitive with the pieces they added. But the Warriors didn't need Durant to beat them. He needed them FAR MORE than they need him. He just took them from an all-time great team, to arguably the greatest team ever. 

And I never put all that much stock in the 73 win thing.  It's not as impressive as the next 3 records behind that for a ton of reasons, most notably the number of cannon fodder teams.

There have only been 2 teams that have won over 70 games in a season. The other team had Michael Jordan on it. It's incredibly hard and equally impressive no matter who the competition was, (which included the Thunder with Durant and Westbrook.)

Edit:  And don't give me that Green suspension nonsense.  The game may have been closer in 5 but they shredded them.  And Green was invisible in 6.  And then in 7, Green had a phenomenal night and all the Warriors needed was for ANYONE to step up.  None of them did, not one of them did.  The Cavs won, the Warriors lost.  They had the single highest odds scenario in basketball: Game 7, at home, after being up 3-1. They were outplayed, end of story.

Still didn't address my other points about the injuries to Bogut, Iguodala, and Curry. So, if the Warriors were outplayed in 2016, then the Cavs were outplayed in 2015. You'd have to try hard to not outplay a team that is missing its Starting Center and has injuries to its Sixth Man, and Unanimous MVP.

They sought out Durant as mucj as Durant did them.  Also, comparing the catastrophic loss of 2 of the Cavs 3 all stars to the Warriors only losing ONE of their role players, having one that was inhibited a bit, and Curry who played strong games in the finals being injured earlier in the playoffs is hilarious.  There's no comparing. Theonly comparable scenario would be if Curry, Green, AND Thompson were all injured and out for the series and it was just Durant.  Or in 2016, Curry being the only of the big 3 standing.  The Warriors were put on the ropes by a Cavs team that was literally LeBron and a scrappy group of midtier roleplayers.  People didn't even give them much credit for the 2015 win until later.  Don't EVEN compare them.  

And yeah, they played the Thunder in the regular season. Three times.  And the Cavs twice.  The 76ers in 66-67 played the Celtics 9 times.  And the Warriors (number 1 western seed) 9 times as well.  The Lakers also played their stiffest competition far more often.  The League now is spread thin, lots of cannon fodder to pad the win count.  And on top of that, the regular season intensity is way down and big names play smaller minutes.  The Warriors were the perfect regular season team thanks to that depth but that didn't translate as well to the playoffs where big players play big minutes and the intensity steps way up.  With Durant they are a much better playoff team, that's why they got him.  Sure it makes reaching that 70 win mark harder but it's a worthwhile exchange.