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Forums - Politics - Should all beliefs be tolerated?

VGPolyglot said:
Puppyroach said:

So you mean to forbid a person to, for example, say that he/she is a nazi (but the person can still think it)? So basically a totalitarian society that acts as if, as lo g as people don't say what they think, everything is fine? That is how you breed ignorance in every society. The best thing is if people express their opinion, no matter how we think of them, and then we get a chance to oppose them. That way we practice critical thinking and rationality. Forbidding opinion is how Christianity for hundreds of years kept the rational discussion out of society...

What I'm saying that if doesn't say that he's a Nazi, we can't do anything about because we wouldn't know that he's a Nazi. It'd be fine and dandy if we could let Nazis say their views and just get on with our day with nothing happening, but as we saw with World War II, letting Nazis grow and fester doesn't turn out well.

And seeing what happened in Soviet Union, letting communists grow and fester doesn't turn out well. And Yugoslavia. And Cuba. And Spain. And...

But looking at WW2 and western capitalism, UK, USA, W. Germany, it's pretty clear which system have been the best.



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bdbdbd said:
VGPolyglot said:

What I'm saying that if doesn't say that he's a Nazi, we can't do anything about because we wouldn't know that he's a Nazi. It'd be fine and dandy if we could let Nazis say their views and just get on with our day with nothing happening, but as we saw with World War II, letting Nazis grow and fester doesn't turn out well.

And seeing what happened in Soviet Union, letting communists grow and fester doesn't turn out well. And Yugoslavia. And Cuba. And Spain. And...

But looking at WW2 and western capitalism, UK, USA, W. Germany, it's pretty clear which system have been the best.

The difference is that communism is a benevolent ideology that was hijacked by authoritarian dictators. Nazism is bad at its core.



VGPolyglot said:
bdbdbd said:

What? That makes absolutely no sense. You clearly are opposing something you do not understand. People who make billions need to invest their money into something, and that something creates jobs and jobs create wealth. What the billionares own, are shares that have an imaginary value that's based on how they are respected on the market. You can't save money because inflation eats away the billionaires savings.

Equal distribution of wealth have no value by itself, as everyone can be piss-poor. What better welfare needs, is investments from people who have money to invest. Going a decade back, the main driver of global economy was investments that were made to China. In similar fashion there should be some driver (that has money to invest) in global economics to have GNP growing again.

What's causing today's financial problems is (loan) money that's leaving the market faster than there's new (loan) money coming on the market and inflation eating away the value of old debt.

Some food for thought: let's say a square meter in an appartment in Helsinki would be worth the same as square kilometer of desert in Africa, which would be more valuable, the the square meter or square kilometer? In the current financial atmosphere they'd be worth the same, but clearly how the real value should be calculated is much more complex than just to compare the monetary value.

So, keeping billions of dollars stashed in a bank is investing it? Most billionaires are never going to become close to spending all of the money that they have. 

Of course it isn't investing it. That's why they don't have billions of dollars in the bank. That's just stupid to think there is. If you have a billion in the bank, and yearly inflation rate is 2%, you'll lose 20 million of your savings value each year.

Naturally the billionaires have money in the bank, not just the way you think, because there will be times when the investments aren't making you any. 

If all the money would just sit in a bank, what value would it have anymore? 



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VGPolyglot said:
bdbdbd said:

And seeing what happened in Soviet Union, letting communists grow and fester doesn't turn out well. And Yugoslavia. And Cuba. And Spain. And...

But looking at WW2 and western capitalism, UK, USA, W. Germany, it's pretty clear which system have been the best.

The difference is that communism is a benevolent ideology that was hijacked by authoritarian dictators. Nazism is bad at its core.

Really? But doesn't communism begin with oppression? What would make national socialism any worse than that?



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bdbdbd said:
VGPolyglot said:

The difference is that communism is a benevolent ideology that was hijacked by authoritarian dictators. Nazism is bad at its core.

Really? But doesn't communism begin with oppression? What would make national socialism any worse than that?

What do you mean begins with oppression? Of course it begins with oppression, the whole ideology of communism is that oppression exists, and it needs to be eliminated. If there was no oppression, we wouldn't need communism.



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VGPolyglot said:
Aeolus451 said:

Competition is vital in all aspects of life. If you see someone that has it better, it drives you to better yourself and strive to obtain it. That drive or instinct should be encouraged in all people because they'll never get ahead without it. 

This is why I don't like socialism and communism because it punishes people who try to better themselves for the so called good of all people. If you destroy the point of "trying" to get ahead by taking anything of worth and giving it to people who are in need because of their apathy, it will only create more apathetic people. It's a society that will destroy itself in the long run because it disregards human nature and reality. It's the ultimate form of envy, self-loathing and misanthropy. No matter what is done, there will always be people who do good and people who don't. There will be always be the rich and poor. Making everyone poor or miserable for the sake of equality is not a way to obtain equality or fairness. 

I'm all for helping out people who are in actual need because hard times or because of their empairment to work. 

People are not born It's incredible niave to believe that you can get rid of "there'll always be people that lose out"

We're already destroying ourselves with competition. There are numerous people starving while so much food is wasted, and we're destroying our environment beyond repair.

There will be more starving people without competition and the drive to better themselves because of people becoming more apathetic living under communism or socialism.  



Aeolus451 said:
VGPolyglot said:

We're already destroying ourselves with competition. There are numerous people starving while so much food is wasted, and we're destroying our environment beyond repair.

There will be more starving people without competition and the drive to better themselves because of people becoming more apathetic living under communism or socialism.  

Apathy? After what you wrote in the thread about civilians getting killed?



VGPolyglot said:
Aeolus451 said:

There will be more starving people without competition and the drive to better themselves because of people becoming more apathetic living under communism or socialism.  

Apathy? After what you wrote in the thread about civilians getting killed?

Trying to change the subject?



Aeolus451 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Apathy? After what you wrote in the thread about civilians getting killed?

Trying to change the subject?

My point was that apathy is already alive and well in the current society. Besides, when we don't have to worry about when our next paycheck is coming, or whether or not we can afford to pay the bills, we can use that energy to think of things that we actually enjoy.



VGPolyglot said:
bdbdbd said:

Really? But doesn't communism begin with oppression? What would make national socialism any worse than that?

What do you mean begins with oppression? Of course it begins with oppression, the whole ideology of communism is that oppression exists, and it needs to be eliminated. If there was no oppression, we wouldn't need communism.

It begins with oppressing the people to the ideology, because people are not willing to accept it. You're using the end to justify the means, and it is no different from any other ideology that's forcing people to do what they don't want to, because in the end there's peace anyway, as non-willing people are either oppressed or dead. Why would communism be any better than national socialism? In the end everyone's happy anyway, it's only the road to the end that's painful.



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Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

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