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Forums - Politics - America is a bigger threat to world peace than North Korea

VGPolyglot said:
Aeolus451 said:

Nope. For us to be at war, we would have to declare it or another country would have to declare it. Bombing terrorists in the sand dunes and mountains doesn't count. It would be silly if it did. We're not trying to destroy those countries' governments. If NK bombed us, we would declare war on them then go to war with them. 

So, that means them that North Korea has never been at war, because they didn't declare war in the Southern government. So, by they logic they're actually a peaceful country. And are you really trying to tell me that the United States is not trying to destroy the Syrian government?

I think you misread his statement. It's either one country or the other has to declare it, not both. North Korea declared war on South Korea in 1953 (and still claims they are at war today), so there is still technically a war.

O/T: World Peace is something of a tricky concept to define. Does that mean an absence of violent organizations? Having all countries ruled by non-abusive regimes/governments? A lack of wars? Simply avoiding a global war? North Korea actively starves its own citizens and imprisons government dissentors into concentration camps, while the United States has history of destabilizing governments who commit human rights abuses as long as it's convenient for them to do so.

I'd argue North Korea is a greater threat if we define world peace as the first two, while the US is a greater threat to last two, if only because they are far more likely to start or participate in wars (especially any sort of global conflict). North Korea is incredibly repressive and a consistent human rights violator, but I don't think anyone considers them a serious contender for global superpower.



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Leadified said:
Player2 said:

The Afghan Communist Party did, not Russia like you said in your original statement, and I don't think I've ever heard anybody refer to a coup as an "invasion". Again, like you say, It was the government who carried out the purges and repression against civilians, not Russia.

No, both parties are reponsible. I'm not sure what you mean by this post, are you implying the Soviet Union did not invade Afghanistan? I find it a bit baffling that you are unaware about the atrocities commited there by Soviet troops.

Okay, let's see if this makes things more clear:

April 1978 - Coup d'etat - Daoud is overthrown and killed, PDPA (Afghan Communist Party) seizes power.

1978 - Uprisings become common due to the repression, purges and unpopular policies dictated by the PDPA. The mujahideen appear.

December 1979 - The USSR invaded Afghanistan at the request of the Afghan government, who found themselves unable to control the situation on their own.

 

Now let's revise your original statement: "If Russia did not invade Afghanistan, there would be no mujahideen"

Doesn't sound reasonable because the mujahideen existed before a single USSR soldier put a foot on Afghanistan.



Puppyroach said:
Of course they are, North Korea would never be a threat of any kind, they don't have the technological resources to wage war.

They have all sorts of technology (nuclear bombs for example) and a million man army.  What they don't have are basic resources like food and gas.  They could fight a pretty legitimate fight for a month or so.  With the South Korean capital not that far away from the dmz they could inflict some pretty serious damage.  

The two koreas just need to be reunited.  It's ridiculous how lopsided the prosperity is between the two half nations.  



You just have to count the number of countries invaded, occupied and/or bombed in the last 70 years by the US and by the DPRK (North Korea) and clearly see who's been (and still is) a bigger threat to peace and stability in almost every region of the world.

P.S.: BTW it's dozens by the US and 0 by NK.



Aeolus451 said:
VGPolyglot said:

So, that means them that North Korea has never been at war, because they didn't declare war in the Southern government. So, by they logic they're actually a peaceful country. And are you really trying to tell me that the United States is not trying to destroy the Syrian government?

You're being silly.

You know, you said the same thing to me in another thread, which leads me to assume that you're main goal is to rile me up.



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Player2 said:
Leadified said:

No, both parties are reponsible. I'm not sure what you mean by this post, are you implying the Soviet Union did not invade Afghanistan? I find it a bit baffling that you are unaware about the atrocities commited there by Soviet troops.

Okay, let's see if this makes things more clear:

April 1978 - Coup d'etat - Daoud is overthrown and killed, PDPA (Afghan Communist Party) seizes power.

1978 - Uprisings become common due to the repression, purges and unpopular policies dictated by the PDPA. The mujahideen appear.

December 1979 - The USSR invaded Afghanistan at the request of the Afghan government, who found themselves unable to control the situation on their own.

 

Now let's revise your original statement: "If Russia did not invade Afghanistan, there would be no mujahideen"

Doesn't sound reasonable because the mujahideen existed before a single USSR soldier put a foot on Afghanistan.

You're missing the point. The mujahideen has grown powerful because of foreign investment from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the United States as a direct result of the Soviet invasion. Without it, groups like Al-Qaeda would either not exist or have any influence beyond a local level.



Ruler said:
Leadified said:

Assad agreed to hand over his chemical weapons for destruction after the chemical attack in Ghouta in 2013, do you think he would if he didn't have any? Or that there is no possibility that he used them? I'm not sure why you list examples of American intervention and assume Russia is any better. If Russia did not invade Manchuria, there would be no North Korea. If Russia did not invade Afghanistan, there would be no mujahideen. Putin has dragged Russia right into the middle of the Sunni-Shia conflict now too. Don't be fooled by the crocodile tears from these politicians.

I'm not sure what's you're talking about now, North Korea developing nukes has always been a big deal. Instead of developing into a modern state such as China or Vietnam, North Korea is busy sucking its population dry and using international aid to fund its imperial family.  I don't know how anyone can defend it.

There are reports that the rebels are in possession of chemical weapons as well.

If Russia/USSR wouldnt have invaded Manchuria, WW2 would still be going on, So i dont get how you can blame the USSR if they freed China and the Korean peninsuela from Japanese Fascists/Imperialists.

The Mujahideen existed for centuries in Afghanistan, they were supported by the US and Saudi Arabia in the Soviet/Civil War in Afghanistan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9RCFZnWGE0

America and europe allready are involved in the Sunni-Shia conflcit and they obviously pick the Sunni side lead by Saudi Arabia, despite that every terrorist attack in the west were done by Sunni Muslims so far.

Its the US who isolated North Korea to the ground thanks to their embargos and sanctions, they are the most independent and isolated state on the planet now. Thats why they can afford to have a nuclear programm in the first place. Any other devoloping country would give up their nuclear weapons ounce other countries would stop trading with it like Iran had to.

The international aid stopped long time ago for North Korea, and North Korea allready can substain itself. The Nuclear weapon maybe would also benifit their economy as they wouldnt need to employ 2 million soldiers every day in order to defend themselfs against a potential invasion, like what the US did in Iraq. And they wouldnt want to have a Nuke if these US invasions in Iraq or Lybia wouldnt have happened.

There weren't reports that Assad had chemical weapons, he did. A batch of them were destroyed in 2014.

The Soviet Union helping to end the war does not excuse propping up a fascist regime like the Kim family and invading the south. American and Saudi support for the mujahideen only happened because the Soviets invaded. Also, why should Russia get involved in messes that America and Europe are involved in? Two wrongs don't make a right.

North Korea isolated itself, it's a part of the Juche ideology, which is much closer to the Japanese fascism than any form of communism. I don't know how you can call North Korea sustainable, the country was crippled by the fall of the USSR and has never recovered since. The whole show is smoke and mirrors, all these bombastic remarks are just to suck up foreign aid.

The only reason that North Korea still exists is because of China, who does not want to deal with American presence at its border nor a massive refugee crisis from the state collapsing on itself. Nuclear weapons are impractical, unless if North Korea is feeling suicidal.



Ruler said:
KLAMarine said:

Let's make an exception for ISIS, shall we? Their Paris attack alone killed 130 and injured 368. I must remind you in case you have forgotten that ISIS targeted Paris knowing full well it was a civilian target. My university mourned the death of one of its alumni after the attack as a matter of fact.

This GBU-43 killed 30-something ISIS fighters as far as is currently known and was dropped on a tunnel complex used by ISIS.

The GBU-43 is neither a chemical nor nuclear weapon.

Bravo on sticking up for ISIS by the way. I'm honestly impressed.

North Korea's pretty bad too.

Its not about killing ISIS member its about using a weapon that can be classified as a weapon of mass destruction, just some days after bombing the Syrian army for accusing them of using weapons of mass destruction. Its pretty irational and unecaptable just like people accuse North Korea to be, but we are talking about the US here.

Nothing irrational about it. GBU-43 is not a chemical weapon.

Ruler said:

There was no need to use this weapon in order to 90 ISIS members, the US has plenty of other weapons.

There was a need: ISIS members were taking shelter underneath considerable fortifications.



VGPolyglot said:
Aeolus451 said:

You're being silly.

You know, you said the same thing to me in another thread, which leads me to assume that you're main goal is to rile me up.

I'm saying that again because you're points are devolving into absurdity. You're clearly exaggerating with your examples of what war is but I don't know if you're doing that intentionally or that you're just ignorant of what war is. I can't take you seriously when you're doing something like that repeatedly either way. I try to treat everyone as a sensible person that is intelligent will debate using logic but you're going off the rails with this. I'm not interested in continuing conversations with people who are being silly.

 

sil·ly

/ˈsilē/

adjective

1.

having or showing a lack of common sense or judgment; absurd and foolish:

"another of his silly jokes"



Aeolus451 said:
VGPolyglot said:

You know, you said the same thing to me in another thread, which leads me to assume that you're main goal is to rile me up.

I'm saying that again because you're points are devolving into absurdity. You're clearly exaggerating with your examples of what war is but I don't know if you're doing that intentionally or that you're just ignorant of what war is. I can't take you seriously when you're doing something like that repeatedly either way. I try to treat everyone as a sensible person that is intelligent will debate using logic but you're going off the rails with this. I'm not interested in continuing conversations with people who are being silly.

 

sil·ly

/ˈsilē/

adjective

1.

having or showing a lack of common sense or judgment; absurd and foolish:

"another of his silly jokes"

So, you say that they're not attempting to destory governments, I say that they're trying to overthrow the Syrian government (and the Houthi regmine in Yemen too, for that matter), and you say that my response is not based on logic? It's also because your checklist of what constitutes a war is too limited in today's world, where the majority of conflicts do not involve declarations of war, and where the United States has such power that they can keep the conflict entirely out of American territory, that I gave the North Korean example: it's supposed to be absurd, and if you saw it that way it was the whole point, because you used the exact same logic to say that the United States wasn't at war.