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Forums - Gaming - Deepest video game storylines?

epinefridis on 04 April 2008
hunter_alien said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
I wonder if anyone in this thread even understands what it means to have a "deep" storyline.

 Thank god that youe here to explain it to us fools ...

 

epinefridis : Man , TLG was amazing . I actually played the game again when the sequel came , and was so dissapointed by what they did to this excelent universe :( 


 It was the gameplay that sucked (actually, there was no gameplay...). The story was satisfying but naturally not to be consider as an heir to TLG's throne! April Ryan and Kate Walker, are the most intensively and lively sculptured characters I've ever played! I mean, you could FEEL the change within their minds!

 

About KOTOR. I wish Lucas had half the inspiration of Bioware's and Obsidian's script writer's when he worked on Episodes I,II & III. Man, what crap...



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Garcian Smith on 04 April 2008
rocketpig said:
Garcian Smith said:
1) Planescape Torment
2) KotOR 2
3) Killer7
4) Legacy of Kain series
5) The Longest Journey

@ Words of Wisdom: From all of the mentions of Xenogears, Metal Gear Solid, and Legend of Zelda, it seems that the number isn't much. There's a BIG difference between a story that's merely entertaining and one that's deep.

Well, MGS has tried many underlying themes that show depth: pacifism, betrayal, various philosophies, etc. I just think it has failed in most regards to effectively communicate those ideas.

Meanwhile, games like KOTOR, Fallout, or Mass Effect show some depth by having real choice in-game and how those choices affect the rest of the game. That in itself raises questions of morality, independent choice, etc.

BioShock lightly grazed over Objectivism but the scene in Andrew Ryan's office showed some poignancy, though I felt it fell well short of the mark Irrational should have been aiming for and it left me unfulfilled.

Anyway, I have yet to see a game that I feel is deep and still offers a decent gaming experience around it. Most of the stuff I see people listing in this thread are really just slightly complex sci-fi fluff we see Hollywood churn out on a constant basis. Much more 2010: The Year We Make Contact than 2001: A Space Odyssey, if you catch my drift.


I think you're reading too deeply into the story of the MGS games if you think they're deep. The themes of pacifism and betrayal, etc. are glossed over, true, but they're not really treated any more in-depth than your average Hollywood blockbuster. In reality, the MGS games' stories are just over-the-top, semi-parody affairs with bisexual vampires, memory-card-reading psychics, and FISSION MAILED, and anyone who takes them any more seriously than that probably has no sense of humor.

@ the_vagabond7: I really hope so. I got about 15 hours into Xenogears, and all I took from the story was Standard JRPG Spiky-Haired Guy is trying to Regain His Conveniently-Forgotten Memories Integral to the Plot while Standard JRPG Villain wants to Kill God. (lol) Oh, and there's some BS animu mecha crap mixed in there as well. I'm a philosophy graduate, and I didn't catch a hint of any Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, or whatever in there.

@ epinefridis: If even a single character in the prequel episodes had the depth of characterization of Kreia, then the movies would be redeemed in their entirety. If only Chris Avellone would produce more games...



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

billy07 on 04 April 2008
Garcian Smith said:
rocketpig said:
Garcian Smith said:
1) Planescape Torment
2) KotOR 2
3) Killer7
4) Legacy of Kain series
5) The Longest Journey

@ Words of Wisdom: From all of the mentions of Xenogears, Metal Gear Solid, and Legend of Zelda, it seems that the number isn't much. There's a BIG difference between a story that's merely entertaining and one that's deep.

Well, MGS has tried many underlying themes that show depth: pacifism, betrayal, various philosophies, etc. I just think it has failed in most regards to effectively communicate those ideas.

Meanwhile, games like KOTOR, Fallout, or Mass Effect show some depth by having real choice in-game and how those choices affect the rest of the game. That in itself raises questions of morality, independent choice, etc.

BioShock lightly grazed over Objectivism but the scene in Andrew Ryan's office showed some poignancy, though I felt it fell well short of the mark Irrational should have been aiming for and it left me unfulfilled.

Anyway, I have yet to see a game that I feel is deep and still offers a decent gaming experience around it. Most of the stuff I see people listing in this thread are really just slightly complex sci-fi fluff we see Hollywood churn out on a constant basis. Much more 2010: The Year We Make Contact than 2001: A Space Odyssey, if you catch my drift.


I think you're reading too deeply into the story of the MGS games if you think they're deep. The themes of pacifism and betrayal, etc. are glossed over, true, but they're not really treated any more in-depth than your average Hollywood blockbuster. In reality, the MGS games' stories are just over-the-top, semi-parody affairs with bisexual vampires, memory-card-reading psychics, and FISSION MAILED, and anyone who takes them any more seriously than that probably has no sense of humor.

@ the_vagabond7: I really hope so. I got about 15 hours into Xenogears, and all I took from the story was Standard JRPG Spiky-Haired Guy is trying to Regain His Conveniently-Forgotten Memories Integral to the Plot while Standard JRPG Villain wants to Kill God. (lol) Oh, and there's some BS animu mecha crap mixed in there as well. I'm a philosophy graduate, and I didn't catch a hint of any Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, or whatever in there.

@ epinefridis: If even a single character in the prequel episodes had the depth of characterization of Kreia, then the movies would be redeemed in their entirety. If only Chris Avellone would produce more games...


 Xenogears doesn't get good until the second disc. But then it becomes very very good.



rocketpig on 04 April 2008

I think you're reading too deeply into the story of the MGS games if you think they're deep.


Heheheh, I think you're misunderstanding me. Read the MGS2/MGS4 thread to see what I think of the game.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

billy07 on 04 April 2008

BTW, does Xenosaga have a deep storyline when compared to XenoGears? I realize the title originates from a work by Neitzsche but there have been a lot of mixed opinions I've heard of the game. Is it supposed tackle existential philosophies? Does it go to depth that Gears does and does it explore any other themes?



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Garcian Smith on 04 April 2008

@ billy07: Odd, I've heard the opposite. People I know have enjoyed the first disc, but hated the second because the development team apparently ran out of budget and decided to fill it with nigh-incomprehensible exposition.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

shio on 04 April 2008
kn said:
shio said:
kn said:
mrstickball said:
No mention of Mass Effect frightens me...

KOTOR comes to mind as well....


None of those two have deep stories, so they're not worth being mentioned.

And you know this because you've played both? IGN awarded KOTOR "Best Story". If you have played both you'd know that the story can be as shallow as you want it to be or deeper than you thought possible. The amount of detail each character has and the amount of branching in the story more than exemplefies "deep". There are certainly some good ones on the OP, but this one certainly belongs on the list. GameInformer ranked it #2 all-time in top ten all time game plot twists. In fact, from Wikipedia (on KOTOR):

"has seen success as the game of the year from many sources including IGN, Gamespot, Computer Gaming World, PC Gamer, GMR Magazine, The Game Developers Choice Awards, Xbox Magazine, and G4.[3] Interactive Achievement Awards awarded it for best story and best character development.[3] IGN gave KotOR additional awards in Best Sound (Xbox category), Best Story (PC category), Xbox RPG Game of the Year 2003, PC RPG Game of the Year 2003, Xbox Game of the Year 2003, PC Game of the Year 2003, and Overall Game of the Year 2003 across all platforms. In 2007, IGN listed it at #27 on its list of the Top 100 Games of All-Time.[4] "

But, hey, what do all these people know. Clearly they are shills.

First, "best story" has nothing to do with how deep the game's story is (even though Kotor doesn't have a great story Imo)

Second, do you really think Kotor's story is as deep as Planescape's or Deus Ex's or even MGS2's? Seriously, you better retract your statement because that's hilarious. Have people's standards been lowered so much as to include their favorite games in every single category?

If you had mentioned Kotor 2 instead of Kotor 1, then I might've given you some credit. Kotor 2 atleast had some of the best characterizations I've ever seen in a game, especially on Kreia (one of the best characters ever Imo), which was extremely deep and excelently done.

 



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billy07 on 04 April 2008

The reason why people hate the second disc is because the pacing is completely ^%& up. There is very little gameplay as the story pretty much walks you through the game rather than allowing you to experience it yourself. Gameplay wise the second disc is an enormous change of pace and you're often bombarded with half our long cutscenes after every 20 or so minutes of gameplay. Plot wise though, the second disc is far superior to the first one. Things start to make sense, become less cliche and overall much more interesting and satisfying. It took me 30 hours finishing the first disc and I felt cheated on with the story after reading raving reviews but the secon disc made it all worth it so it's damn worth playing it through til the end.



epinefridis on 04 April 2008


 



@ epinefridis: If even a single character in the prequel episodes had the depth of characterization of Kreia, then the movies would be redeemed in their entirety. If only Chris Avellone would produce more games...


 Thats exactly what I meant."Crap" goes to the prequel movies...



masschamber on 04 April 2008

some of the deepest stories have been largely ignored,
Shining Force 3, an engaging political story juxtaposed against a more typical fantasy story.
Phantasy Star 2, final fantasy 7's does a whole lot of copy catting off of this one.
Hotel Dusk, just because the story is grandiose doesn't mean that it isn't brilliantly written, plus the characters aren't deeper than 99.9% of all other games out there
Panzer Dragoon Saga, hard to explain its story but it is incredible


early ultimas and phantasy star 1 both warrant a mention because of how far they were ahead of the curb in terms of story

but we all know the best story is actually in Earth Defense Force 2017, arr tharr be alien and ye need be blowin' em up matey, arr



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