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Forums - Gaming - Weapon Durability, Fanbase Fragility (The Jimquisition)

JWeinCom on 14 March 2017
potato_hamster said:
JWeinCom said:

Have you seen the secret box episode of Spongebob?  If you haven't I'll give you a brief synopsis.  Patrick shows Spongebob his secret box and tells him they're something super secret inside.  Spongebob is naturally curious and asks what's in the box.  Patrick refuses because Spongebob is just not privy to the box's secret.  And he just goes on and on and on about how special his box is, and how valuable its contents are and how Spongebob must wish he was special enough to see the box.

If you don't get it, you're Patrick.  Instead of just dropping the subject like a rational person would, you keep going on and on about it and how special it is.  Talking about NDAs, then talking about how it cost thousands of dollars to do the studies, and then later upping it to hundreds of thousands so it's that much more special (don't know why game development companies are doing hundreds of thousands of dollars of market research anyway instead of a market research firm, but hey what do I know? ) The data keeps becoming more and more special.  And you keep getting more and more special for being "privy" to this special secret data.  And I just laugh more and more.

If this is how you normally act, then the problem isn't with Nintendo fans.  The problem is that you're acting like a pink starfish character in an episode meant to highlight how annoying he is.  If you can't talk about your secret box, then just put it away.  I promise I'm not demanding that you give it to me.  I'm not going to grab it from you.  I'm not going to break into your house to get it.

It's really simple... don't talk about things you're not supposed to talk about.  If you can't do that, then the problem isn't everyone else.  It's you.

I never mentioned the box. You asked me if the box exists and I told you it does. Then you asked to look inside the box and got pissed that I can't let you. In fact, I don't even have access to the box any more.

My bad for answering you honestly. Next time I'll just tell you look it up yourself like some asshole would.

No... I didn't ask for any market research.  You brought it up all by yourself.  

"All I can say is that it's amazing what kind of market analysis game development companies do."

I don't know how I could possibly have asked you to see research that I had no reason to believe existed.  



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potato_hamster on 14 March 2017
JWeinCom said:
potato_hamster said:

I never mentioned the box. You asked me if the box exists and I told you it does. Then you asked to look inside the box and got pissed that I can't let you. In fact, I don't even have access to the box any more.

My bad for answering you honestly. Next time I'll just tell you look it up yourself like some asshole would.

No... I didn't ask for any market research.  You brought it up all by yourself.  

"All I can say is that it's amazing what kind of market analysis game development companies do."

I don't know how I could possibly have asked you to see research that I had no reason to believe existed.  

You're right. I should have just told you to look it up yourself. My bad.



d21lewis on 14 March 2017
Areym said:
Alright, those weapons in the footage were breaking with like 4 - 6 freaking hits, that is just absurd, specially having to switch weapons so many times and stopping the flow of combat. People are comparing it TW3, but I've gone hours in TW3 without worrying about weapon durability, this is a whole new level of annoyance. I mean, at least last a full fight before breaking. I'm not a fan of the "it's only early on" defense since it basically admits it is a problem but it's only really annoying/disruptive early on.

Not sure if anybody replied yet. I'm reading through the thread and I just stumbled across this post. With that said, I'm pretty sure he's already weakened those weapons or they are the lowest level possible. He did that on purpose.



irstupid on 14 March 2017
RolStoppable said:
potato_hamster said:

It's amazing how finding a grenade launcher in GTA V just ruins that game, or in Dark Swords, when you get the Drake Sword, or Borderlands, or countless other open world games where players can pick up pretty powerful weapons pretty early in the game somehow manage to get by. But for Nintendo, it would just totally shatter the game. Yep. Un huh. I totally believe you.

Just tie the strength of weapons Link can use to the amount of hearts or stamina upgrade Link has acquired. You can even let him use them if he's underleveled, just make them less powerful or difficult to swing if the user chooses to use them. Pretty simple. iI's like hundreds of games have already figured out this problem.

I'm not at all arguing that weapon durability results in mandatory grinding. I'm arguing that weapon durability makes the game fundamentally less fun to play. There's nothing enjoyable about watching your favorite weapon get irreparably damaged at all.

So it's enjoyable to find a weapon that you won't be able to use until several or dozens of hours later, or to make it less powerful to taunt the player?

I hate those things in games too. Especially when its a premanent change. You know like if you find this weapon or armor at lvl 20 its these stats forever. If you find it at lvl 50 its these stats instead.

But I don't mind weaposn getting powerups through story reasons, like in Wind Waker for example you power up the master sword.

Hiku said:
sc94597 said:

This is what Jim Sterling says of the game's difficulty in his review. 

"Given the additional “difficulty” of Breath of the Wild, it’s more crucial than ever to have a solid health supply, and I’ve put “difficulty” in quotes because the main way in which this game tries to be tough is to make most enemies highly absorbent and more than capable of dropping Link in one or two hits.

Rather than fully mimic the Dark Souls combat it half-heartedly aims for, Breath simply pumps up the monsters’ ability to do damage, resulting in a lot of one-hit kills even once Link finds and upgrades some decent armor or puts a lot of shrinework into gaining heart containers. It’s a cheap and dirty way of making any game more “challenging” and I can’t say I find it particularly edifying."

 

The video shows that the enemies teleprompt their attacks and a lot of the skill involved in the game relies on dodging, parrying, and fury attacks. Besides, it is very easy to get revivals in the game, because faries (which revive you when you die) are accessible since the first town, and there is a skill that automatically revive you when you die (with a cool down.) There is a lot more strategy in the game than Jim gives credit. 

Right. I'm not doubting your overall opinion of it. Besides, what's difficult for one person may be easy for someone else. And from what I've seen of the game so far, I doubt I'd share Jim's views on the difficulty. I'm just saying that the video is no more representative of the overall difficulty of the game, even when it comes to the issue of enemy damage output, than a video of me avoiding every attack of the first boss in Nioh.
What you wouldn't see is all the times the boss destroyed me easily until an hour later I was able to beat it without even getting hit, because of practicing my muscle memory, visual cues, reactions, meter management, attack strategies, etc. Or how often I had to do this in other situations in the game. That's how I learned how the difficulty in Nioh works. A process I haven't gone throug yet in Zelda, as I have yet to play it.

I was wondering about bottled fairies though, as I haven't seen them appear in any videos so far. That there's a skill with a cooldown that auto revives you is interesting as well.

I haven't ever played a sould type game but from what I've heard this game's roaming bosses are similar. Even non bosses. I still have an annoying time with lizards that have spears. They are fast, shoot stuff out of their mouths and have a long reach.

But you end up learning their movements and patterns and how to fight through trial and error, experience, dying, what have you. You then get to a potn where you can take on the foes that OHKO you and take no damage. Or as you upgrade your armor they 2HKO you and so on. I hear when you have armor to max lvl 4 you are just godly. I'm still at 2. Have yet ot find anymore great fairy fountains.

There is a skill you get for completing a divine beast that has a 30 minute cooldown. It revives you and gives you full health + 5 hearts. As with the other 3 skills you can turn it off if you want. I turn off the other 2 I have, but always leave this one on. Fairies, can be cooked to make great things, but if not they revive you with 5 hearts. Not the most helpful. Feels like whenever it happens, I'm fighting something like a lynel that by the time I get done ragdolling, he is upon me again and I go through my few fairies instantly. OH and you just sneak up on them and push A. It can be annoying at times, cause they sometimes are flying too dang high up in the air to grab. But whatevs. The game once you get the hang of it, is pretty easy imo. I hardly ever use the fairies. Anytime I do, its as I said above. Usually ends up them being used super quick and followed by game over screen, thus reloading and i have the fairies again. And then approach whatever killed me in a new way, or just avoid.



potato_hamster on 14 March 2017
d21lewis said:
Areym said:
Alright, those weapons in the footage were breaking with like 4 - 6 freaking hits, that is just absurd, specially having to switch weapons so many times and stopping the flow of combat. People are comparing it TW3, but I've gone hours in TW3 without worrying about weapon durability, this is a whole new level of annoyance. I mean, at least last a full fight before breaking. I'm not a fan of the "it's only early on" defense since it basically admits it is a problem but it's only really annoying/disruptive early on.

Not sure if anybody replied yet. I'm reading through the thread and I just stumbled across this post. With that said, I'm pretty sure he's already weakened those weapons or they are the lowest level possible. He did that on purpose.

... the weapons he picks up from enemies are "already weakened"? Uhh I dunno man.



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d21lewis on 14 March 2017

Jim's right, though. In Super Mario 3, for example. Why use my invincibility Star? Once I use it, it's gone. Why use my Tanooki suit? It's so rare! One hit from an enemy, and it's gone!



d21lewis on 14 March 2017
potato_hamster said:
d21lewis said:

Not sure if anybody replied yet. I'm reading through the thread and I just stumbled across this post. With that said, I'm pretty sure he's already weakened those weapons or they are the lowest level possible. He did that on purpose.

... the weapons he picks up from enemies are "already weakened"? Uhh I dunno man.

Which weapon did he take from an enemy? 

 

I'm not saying the weapons aren't fragile. I'm just saying he was constantly choosing his weakest weapon and running from foe to foe, swinging wildly. That's like playing Metal Gear, running directly into a swarm of bad guys, and going crazy with a tranquilizer gun. Yes, you can do it but you aren't supposed to do that! Zelda's combat system is much more refined than that.

 

Also, if you look closely, you can see at one point, he's swinging one weapon (a hammer). There's a quick cut and another weapon (a Bokoblin arm) breaks. The video supports his point but it doesn't accurately​ depict the game. At least from my experience.



irstupid on 14 March 2017
d21lewis said:
potato_hamster said:

... the weapons he picks up from enemies are "already weakened"? Uhh I dunno man.

Which weapon did he take from an enemy? 

It's funny, I want to watch the video so I can better disect him, yet I dont 'want to give him even one more view.



JWeinCom on 14 March 2017
potato_hamster said:
JWeinCom said:

No... I didn't ask for any market research.  You brought it up all by yourself.  

"All I can say is that it's amazing what kind of market analysis game development companies do."

I don't know how I could possibly have asked you to see research that I had no reason to believe existed.  

You're right. I should have just told you to look it up yourself. My bad.

Look up what exactly?  Let's go back to the play by play.

You:  "Sure it's not a Nintendo-specific phenomena, but it's far, far more predominant amongst Nintendo fans."

Me:  "As a Nintendo fan I find it more prevalent among Sony fans.  But that's probably because I'm predisposed to have a favorable opinion towards Nintendo fans, and a less favorable one towards Sony fans.  That's how confirmation bias works.  And noone is above it.

Unless you've done some kind of actual analysis that shows that it's more prevalent among Nintendo fans."

I wasn't asking for anything.  It was a statement, not a question or a demand requiring a response.  Definitely not a demand to see private information that I didn't know existed (and still don't) as you keep insisting.  

If you're looking to not be an asshole, I'm happy to assist.  There are two appropriate non asshole responses to this.

If you had information you wanted to share to back up your assertion, you were free to present it.  If not you didn't have to say anything.  Both of those were perfectly non-asshole responses.

Claiming that you have access to some special research, repeatedly claiming that I'm demanding that information when I definitely didn't, and making pissy remarks about how you're not going to reveal your secret hundred thousand dollar NDA protected information to win internet points is not a non-asshole response.  It is amusing though.

If there is some private information you have, and nobody is demanding you share it or indeed is even aware of its existence, then just don't mention it.  Why is that so unreasonable to you?



Pyro as Bill on 14 March 2017
potato_hamster said:
RolStoppable said:

Does this mean that you now admit to being biased against Nintendo or would you still deny it?

Biased against Nintendo? Never. Biased against Nintendo fans? That's a totally different story.

If it's true that you're a 3rd party, then the feeling is mutual.



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