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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Weapon Durability, Fanbase Fragility (The Jimquisition)

sc94597 said:
Nem said:

It's not the first time and it won't be the last.

For example, just recently they reveled on FFXV. How did that turn out after playing it? 

It's hype reviews, not honest reviews.

Yet the game is getting plenty of acclaim amongst fans and new players to the series alike. Your (and Jim's) opinions are a very small minority. The overwhelming majority of people think this game is a 9,10, or something in between. You can argue that it is hype, but more often than not hyped games get demolished when they don't live up to it. This game has, for most people. 

FFXV has many more mixed reviews than BOTW. It even has a lower score than FFXIII which was a low point in the series review wise. 

See, i don't agree with that. I think theres only a few with the clairvoyance to see the flaws and have the courage to be honest. It's much easier to gush and go with the flow and simply not finish the game without thinking why you got bored. Most people won't say anything now and it will just dawn on them much later when the game isn't the latest hype thing and just sits on their backlog untouched.



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DakonBlackblade said:
sc94597 said:

Yet the game is getting plenty of acclaim amongst fans and new players to the series alike. Your (and Jim's) opinions are a very small minority. The overwhelming majority of people think this game is a 9,10, or something in between. You can argue that it is hype, but more often than not hyped games get demolished when they don't live up to it. This game has, for most people. 

FFXV has many more mixed reviews than BOTW. It even has a lower score than FFXIII which was a low point in the series review wise. 

Sore to break that to you but there ar eplenty of ppl that think BoTW is super overhyped on the reviews, I don't think I know anybody that think its bad but I don't think I know anyone who wasn't already a super Zelda fan who actualy thinks this game is anywhere near a 10.

89% of the reviews on Amazon give the game a 5/5. 

https://www.amazon.com/Legend-Zelda-Breath-Wild-Nintendo-Switch/dp/B01MS6MO77/ref=s9_simh_gw_g63_i1_r?_encoding=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=K64WSCSFBV12VJESKHXG&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=1cded295-23b4-40b1-8da6-7c1c9eb81d33&pf_rd_i=desktop&th=1

You're going to have to back up your claims with statistics and not anecdotes. 



Nem said:
sc94597 said:

Yet the game is getting plenty of acclaim amongst fans and new players to the series alike. Your (and Jim's) opinions are a very small minority. The overwhelming majority of people think this game is a 9,10, or something in between. You can argue that it is hype, but more often than not hyped games get demolished when they don't live up to it. This game has, for most people. 

FFXV has many more mixed reviews than BOTW. It even has a lower score than FFXIII which was a low point in the series review wise. 

See, i don't agree with that. I think theres only a few with the clairvoyance to see the flaws and have the courage to be honest. It's much easier to gush and go with the flow and simply not finish the game without thinking why you got bored. Most people won't say anything now and it will just dawn on them much later when the game isn't the latest hype thing and just sits on their backlog.

Yet notriously tough sites/reviewers like Edge Magazine, Gamespot (8.6 Twilight Princess, 7.5 Skyward Sword), and YouTubers like ProJared who don't let fans sway them have given the game a 10. It is silly to think that ALL of these reviewers are just falling for the hype. It reeks of silly conspiracal think, rather than the Occam's Razor scenario where you just didn't enjoy the game as much as everyone else. 



sc94597 said:
DakonBlackblade said:

Sore to break that to you but there ar eplenty of ppl that think BoTW is super overhyped on the reviews, I don't think I know anybody that think its bad but I don't think I know anyone who wasn't already a super Zelda fan who actualy thinks this game is anywhere near a 10.

89% of the reviews on Amazon give the game a 5/5. 

https://www.amazon.com/Legend-Zelda-Breath-Wild-Nintendo-Switch/dp/B01MS6MO77/ref=s9_simh_gw_g63_i1_r?_encoding=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=K64WSCSFBV12VJESKHXG&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=1cded295-23b4-40b1-8da6-7c1c9eb81d33&pf_rd_i=desktop&th=1

You're going to have to back up your claims with statistics and not anecdotes. 

You do know that Zelda is one of the bigest if not the bigest videogame franchise on the planet and that like everyone who games for 10 or more years are actually fans of the series right ? Cause there is a bias there, a giant bias, wich is exactly what ppl that aren't just giving the game 10/10s cause of Zelda are trying to tell the crazy hype ppl. Remeber Star Wars Episode I, ye ppl loved that thign to bits when it launche don theather, until the hype wave died down, the nostalgia glasses came out and ppl were hit in the face by the crap that was ep I. Zelda isnt crap, far from it, its quite good, but tis definetly nowhere near a 10/10 game.

Also https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GW3PJJK?th=1 Horizon has 91% 5 stars so, what exactly is your point if a new IP can beat 5/5 stars rating of a Zelda game on Amazon ? You know what thoese buyers reviews amount to ? Absolutly nothing, ppl generaly buy what they know they will enjoy, its rare to see a buyer review where the dude trashes what he bought, unless the product is a huge disapointment.

Its realy rather funny see the "profesional reviewers" jumping trough hoops to justify one of the worst systems ever implemented ona  Zelda game, wich is the durability stupidity.



DakonBlackblade said:
sc94597 said:

89% of the reviews on Amazon give the game a 5/5. 

https://www.amazon.com/Legend-Zelda-Breath-Wild-Nintendo-Switch/dp/B01MS6MO77/ref=s9_simh_gw_g63_i1_r?_encoding=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=K64WSCSFBV12VJESKHXG&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=1cded295-23b4-40b1-8da6-7c1c9eb81d33&pf_rd_i=desktop&th=1

You're going to have to back up your claims with statistics and not anecdotes. 

You do know that Zelda is the bigest videogame franchise on the planet and that like everyone who games for 10 or more years are actually fans of the series right ? Cause there is a bias there, a giant bias, wich is exactly what ppl that aren't jsut giving the game 10/10s cause of Zelda are trying to tell the crazy hype ppl. Remeber Star Wars Episode I, ye ppl loved that thign to bits when it launche don theather, until the hype wave died down, the nostalgia glasses came out and ppl were hit in the face by the crap that was ep I. Zelda isnt crap, far from it, its quite good, but tis definetly nowhere near a 10/10 game.

 

Also https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GW3PJJK?th=1 Horizon has 91% 5 stars so, what exactly is your point if a new IP can beat 5/5 stars rating of a Zelda game on Amazon ? You know what thoese buyers reviews amount to ? Absolutly nothing, ppl generaly buy what they know they will enjoy, its rare to see a buyer review where the dude trashes what he bought, unless the product is a huge disapointment.

I don't know Zelda is the biggest videogame franchise on the planet, because it is nowhere near true. There are plenty of people who have not played the series at all, and there are plenty of series which sell much more than The Legend of Zelda, and when I say plenty -- I mean it.

http://www.connectedly.com/10-best-selling-video-games-all-time

^ Look there for starters. 

I don't know anything about Star Wars fandom, so the analogy does not work for me. 

I'd argue that Horizon's reviews reflect fan acclaim for that series as well. It doesn't deserve 6's or 7's either. A 5/5 is much more in line with critic and fan sentiment than a 3/5. My point was that user acclaim matches the reviewer acclaim for BOTW, and seemingly for Horizon also. 

But as a counter-example to your point about "people will buy what they know they enjoy" here is a review on the Zelda Amazon. 

"Not a Zelda fan but I'm enjoying this, a lot. NO SPOILERS.

So now that I pissed off everyone with my title, on with the review.

Breath of the Wild surprised me because as the title says, I don't really like Zelda games. They never clicked with me for one reason or another. Which is funny because clones like Darksiders and Beyond Oasis on the Sega Genesis, I love! But I really have been enjoying this game. I really like Twilight Princess, that's the one I can say I enjoyed the most and love. I enjoyed the characters, the growth between Link and Midna, seeing her develop as a character really won me over.

I know a lot of people don't like durability because ...they like their games simple and dull, but it really keeps combat interesting in this game. You will be swapping weapons often whether you like it or not, they also function differently with attack values, durability, swing speed and how you can maneuver.


This game was obviously inspired by the likes of Skyrim and Farcry, you need to cook to make better healing items and they can even have special effects to resist the weather. It's not complex either and even me who doesn't care for this finds it simple and quick. Get ingredients, find a pot, light a fire, dump in, fud is dun. The Farcry inspiration is...the towers and random dungeons you can find. But they're not as frequent, useless and annoying. They managed to do what Ubisoft did, but make it good. Who knew. Thank you Nintendo for understanding that FUN is priority in a game and not irritating padding. Oh, also fire spreading is a fun mechanic they took and I'd say improved on in many ways.

It's not perfect, the controls can be a bit finicky with powers and personally I find it hard to maneuver. Also, despite a patch it has some massive framedrops due to its vsyncing. The game runs at 30fps, if there's slowdown it drops to 20 and it's very obvious. Now before you comment saying "that's not important, wah wah wah" it's a flaw, low framerates strain my eyes as it is and yes it's not frequent, it's uncommon at best but it's still worth noting.

Combat is great, maybe the best it's ever been. You can do ztargeting or ...don't, play more like an action game, it does help, especially with some moves being required to ztarget (I think?) but it adds to it. As I said, durability has you switching weapons and using a variety of them to get by and it makes it fun, for me anyway. Weapon about to break? Fling it at the enemy! See a fire? Light your arrow and shoot it at a field of grass, fire!

There's random encounters and FINALLY a game with no difficulty/level scaling. Wander into the wrong neck of the woods? You'll find strong ass enemies that will happily punch your face in faster than you can say "MuscularImpaIsSexy"

Is this game worth playing? Yes. At the time of writing this is the only must have Switch game (the others are either not my thing or they're too expensive), if you have a WiiU and you're not interested in a Switch? Get it on that, ignore the rumors. It runs just as well, the framerate dips happen in different areas and it also may be patched.

It runs well and looks great in tablet or TV mode. Again, I am FAR from a die-hard Zelda fan but I do find this game fun and I imagine fans of Zelda may get more mileage out of it than me. Like Skyrim? Zelda? ....Farcry...? You'd probably dig this game."



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sc94597 said:
DakonBlackblade said:

You do know that Zelda is the bigest videogame franchise on the planet and that like everyone who games for 10 or more years are actually fans of the series right ? Cause there is a bias there, a giant bias, wich is exactly what ppl that aren't jsut giving the game 10/10s cause of Zelda are trying to tell the crazy hype ppl. Remeber Star Wars Episode I, ye ppl loved that thign to bits when it launche don theather, until the hype wave died down, the nostalgia glasses came out and ppl were hit in the face by the crap that was ep I. Zelda isnt crap, far from it, its quite good, but tis definetly nowhere near a 10/10 game.

 

Also https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GW3PJJK?th=1 Horizon has 91% 5 stars so, what exactly is your point if a new IP can beat 5/5 stars rating of a Zelda game on Amazon ? You know what thoese buyers reviews amount to ? Absolutly nothing, ppl generaly buy what they know they will enjoy, its rare to see a buyer review where the dude trashes what he bought, unless the product is a huge disapointment.

I don't know Zelda is the biggest videogame franchise on the planet, because it is nowhere near true. There are plenty of people who have not played the series at all, and there are plenty of series which sell much more than The Legend of Zelda, and when I say plenty -- I mean it.

http://www.connectedly.com/10-best-selling-video-games-all-time

^ Look there for starters. 

I don't know anything about Star Wars fandom, so the analogy does not work for me. 

I'd argue that Horizon's reviews reflect fan acclaim for that series as well. It doesn't deserve 6's or 7's either. A 5/5 is much more in line with critic and fan sentiment than a 3/5. My point was that user acclaim matches the reviewer acclaim for BOTW, and seemingly for Horizon also. 

But as a counter-example to your point about "people will buy what they know they enjoy" here is a review on the Zelda Amazon.  "cut"

First that list is crap, it includes MMOs and family games wich realy have no place in this discussion, Wii Sports realy ? And I said one of the bigest, don't be blunt, Zelda is one of the bigest franchises on gaming history (games have sold around 80M copies combined), theres no data you can pull out of your behind to counter that. Random ppl on the streets generaly recognize two videogame characters, Mario and Link (altough they usualy don't know Link's name), they also tend to know who Sonic is but thats neither here nor there. And it is a fact ppl generaly buy what they think they will like, even if they had never played Zelda in their lives they are buying this one expecting to like it, and picking and choosing reviews from a pool of over 400 displaying only the ones of ppl telling they are first time Zelda players don't do your point any good cause theres a bazillion other reviews from ppl who are massive fans of the series. Whats your point here ? Proving that Zelda is actualy just a small time franchise and that BotW reviews aren't being inflated from hype and fan nostalgia ? Come on man. and if Amazong reviews are trustworthy so should be metacritic user ones, and we all know how those ones are going for Zelda (I know it splagued by haters, just making a point that user/buyers reviews means nothing).

And again there are games with more 5 star reviews on Amazon than Zelda, if Zelda realy was the second coming of the Messiah like the professional reviews would lead you to think, it should have more 5 stars than everything else put together.



DakonBlackblade said:
sc94597 said:

I don't know Zelda is the biggest videogame franchise on the planet, because it is nowhere near true. There are plenty of people who have not played the series at all, and there are plenty of series which sell much more than The Legend of Zelda, and when I say plenty -- I mean it.

http://www.connectedly.com/10-best-selling-video-games-all-time

^ Look there for starters. 

I don't know anything about Star Wars fandom, so the analogy does not work for me. 

I'd argue that Horizon's reviews reflect fan acclaim for that series as well. It doesn't deserve 6's or 7's either. A 5/5 is much more in line with critic and fan sentiment than a 3/5. My point was that user acclaim matches the reviewer acclaim for BOTW, and seemingly for Horizon also. 

But as a counter-example to your point about "people will buy what they know they enjoy" here is a review on the Zelda Amazon.  "cut"

First that list is crap, it includes MMOs and family games wich relay have no place here, Wii Sports realy ? And I said one of the bigest, don't be blunt Zeld ais one of the bigest franchises on gaming history, theres no data you can pull out of your behind to counter that. Random ppl on the streets generaly recognize two videogame characters, Mario and Link (altough they generaly don't know Link's name), they also tend to know who Sonic is. And it is a fact ppl generaly buy what they think they will like, even if they had never played Zelda in theire lives they are buying this one expecting to like it, and picking and choosing reviews from a pool of over 400 displaying only the ones of ppl telling they are first time Zelda players don't do your point any good cause theres a bazillion other reviews from ppl who are massive fans of the series. Whats your point here ? Proving that Zelda is actualy just a small time franchise and that BotW reviews aren't being inflated from hype and fan nostalgia ? Come on man.

And again there are games with more 5 star reviews on Amazon than Zelda, if Zelda realy was the second coming of the Messiah liek the professional reviews would lead you to think, it should have more 5 stars than everything else put together.

You said this verbatim 

"You do know that Zelda is the bigest videogame franchise on the planet "

The list includes GTA, Pokemon, and Mario huge series in comparison to Zelda. I don't know what random people you know, but most non-gamers can vaguely recall the Legend of Zelda s a NES game, and that is it. Other series like Call of Duty, GTA, Pokemon, and the Elder Scrolls are much more well-known these days. 

Also I don't understand your point. You have to buy this game in order to play it and review it. Since when do we consider the opinions of people who don't buy and play a game? For the people who bought the game, they overwhelmingly enjoyed it. And no, it isn't "pure nostalgia" when a critic like Gamespot which gave Twilight Princess an 8.6 and Skyward Sword a 7.5 reviewed the game a 10, which they rarely give out. They had nothing to lose by giving an "honest review" because they've done it for the last ten years. 

No I don't think it should have more 5 star reviews, because that wasn't the point I was making. I was making the point that the game is obviously a 9 or 10 game for most people who've bought it, not a 6/7. The only games which get the same percentage of 5-stars are those which also get a ton of 9 and 10 scores from reviewers. A 6/10 or a 7/10 is much less in line with the popular opinon than a 10/10 (the median score on Metacritic and Amazon.) 



sc94597 said:
SvennoJ said:

Still don't want to defend him but oh well, there are people like me that took the freedom from the start and didn't follow the story at all. The game never explained dodging and parrying to me (I found out from my kids that it is explained in Kariko village which I haven't gotten to yet), nor the use of fairies, or upgrades. I went straight into the Gerudo mountains, getting one hit killed everywhere, no room to experiment with dodging and parrying anyway. Not that that discouraged me, you don't really need those risky moves. Once you learn their patterns and stay out of the way or raise the shield in time you're fine. But sure it's a bit odd to find out after 70 hours that I've missed half the basic things you can do in combat. In that regard my experience with it is a lot like Dark souls. I didn't know you could jump until 27 hours in... 

Anyway I'm still getting one hit killed, but I don't mind, saves having to heal and make food lol. Don't get hit at all or reload and do it right. Dark souls was easier in combat, just difficult since you have to start over every time. Zelda lets you save after every kill which saves it from becoming frustrating. It would be nice though to conquer a camp without having to pick up new weapons multiple times.

Sure, but none of this is relevant in his case because he did do the main story (at least eventually, in order to review the game) and he mentioned "gear upgrades" which means he knows where to find fairies (don't want to spoil it for you beyond that.) 

I found the gear upgrades, found what looks like fairies too, but no clue how to capture them. No bottles or net, no press A to grab showed up, no idea. My 5 year old did show me how to easily make red chu chu jelly, so I can finally upgrade the gear I have. Why didn't I think of that when I was there lol.



RolStoppable said:
The conclusion I draw from this video is that Jim simply doesn't know any better.

As in, he seems to be honestly surprised that he got backlash for a 7/10 score. And he gave a 7/10 because weapons are too good to use. And weapon durability (or fragility as he calls it) breaks immersion, but the health of your character depleting apparently does not.

I still haven't read his review, but it doesn't sound like he had something of value to say.

Depends on what you consider value. I mean how much value do other people's opninions have for you, especially if you do not care about the person.

Also your counter example is just terrible. You can prevent your hearts going down through planning and skill, you can't really stop your weapons from breaking though. When an action game is actively discouraging you from jumping into action, something is wrong. They might as well made it a survival game with food and drink meters and the necessity to sleep every day and stay indoors when it rains.

Also permadeath, that should add some challenge and realism to the game.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

SvennoJ said:

I found the gear upgrades, found what looks like fairies too, but no clue how to capture them. No bottles or net, no press A to grab showed up, no idea. My 5 year old did show me how to easily make red chu chu jelly, so I can finally upgrade the gear I have. Why didn't I think of that when I was there lol.

You should be able to catch them by sneaking up on them and pressing A. No bottles necessary in this game.