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Forums - Politics - Trump revokes Obama guidelines on transgender bathrooms

VGPolyglot said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Because I don't think people should be able to walk in whichever bathroom they want just because they "feel" a certain way. Bathrooms (and certain other places) are separated by gender for a reason and "feelings" don't change those reasons.

Do you realize how many transsexuals attempt to commit suicide? It's about 41%:

http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/transgender-suicide/

Discriminating against them further will only make things worse. It's not like they decide "hey, I guess that I'll be a girl today, let's just walk into the women's bathroom." That's not how things work. Now, I'm not sure what your reason is for bathrooms being seperated by gender, but I assume it's because of risk of sexual assault. Well, transgenders are much more at risk of being sexually assaulted than sexually assaulting others:

https://www.ovc.gov/pubs/forge/sexual_numbers.html

The suicide rate is so high because these are deeply disturbed people. They need help, they certainy don't need their delusions encouraged. The suicide rate is the same for pre and post op transexuals, which is a clear demonstration that pandering to these delusions does not help. A man thinking he is a women, or identifying as a women, does not make him a women. If a 30 year old man identified as a 9 year old, should this be respected also, should he be allowed to attend Elementary School?



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Ka-pi96 said:
MarkkyStorm said:

In Brazil, there's parking spaces for pregnants, disabled/handicapped people and elders. Also, there's prioritary seats for obese, pregnant, elders and disabled people.

Ah yeah, that makes more sense and is what I'm used to as well. Spaces exclusively for women just for being women however sounded pretty stupid and discriminatory though. Makes sense for pregnant women however.

Don't think obese people deserve them though.

I didn't understand the "parking space just for women" thing, but the way you answered made me thought if there were prioritary and exclusive spaces/seats at all in other countries.

Agreed with the obese people thing. It's a mess: if we take just Body Mass Index into account, then I'm obese (with 5'9" and 231 pounds), but I'm a totally healthy person, that can fit in the regular seats and no one that knows me would say I'm obese if you ask, they'd just say I'm fat. Could I use a prioritary seat? Should I? In any case, I just use the reason and don't use it even when it's available.



ArnoldRimmer said:
Ka-pi96 said:

WTF? Is that actually a thing? Why do women get their own special parking spaces that men can't use? The only logical reason I could think of is if the women were pregnant, but then shouldn't disabled/handicapped people (including men) have the same right to use them too?

I believe the prevailing logic behind women's parking spaces is their fear of being raped. Woman's parking spaces are usually in parking garages, located very close to the exit, so the women have to walk only the shortest possible distance which helps those of them who have (maybe irrational) fears of getting raped there.

You know, here in germany, we actually have "feminist wine" - where the bottles and even grapes are guaranteed to never have been touched by men. No kidding!

Oh, you're destroying my dreams of make a tour around Germany. Now I'm sad. :(

But sincerely, that's just absurd. Neo-feminist misandry always keep surprising me. Maybe we should make a law that let us touch any bottle or grapes that we want or feel more confortable with.



VGPolyglot said:
ArnoldRimmer said:

Anyway, since I'm not from the US, I'm wondering: Toilets are far from being the only area where we still have gender segregation, so there are much more areas where transgender people will face conflicts. How did Obama solve the following issues:

- changing rooms, for example in public swimming pools or gyms. Can I go into the ladies changing room and showers in case I feel kind of female today? Where do transgenders go to in such situations, are they free to choose?

- gender segregation in sports. Can transgender people choose which gender they play for? Will the german female soccer team soon consist of 11 people who were born men, but somehow feel trapped in a man's body whenever the female soccer world cup approaches?

- women's parking spaces etc. Now available for whoever currently identifies as female?

No, it's not the only reason,but it's a reflection on society's views and treatment of transsexuals. And in regards to gender segregation,I'd be all for eliminating it, but the problem is that there is a lot that we'd have to address first, like rape culture and so forth.

You somehow did not really comment on the other issues I brought up?

So, what about professional sports? How do you solve the obvious issue that allowing transgender people born as men would give them an unfair advantage in most sports if they could simply choose which gender they play for? How do you fight the obvious potential for abuse that a man could simply claim to be a transgender in order to play for the women's team in professional sports? Or, if completely eliminating gender segration as you suggest, it would obviously be illegal to have female leagues in sports, there could only be unisex leagues - which would in practice result in women more or less being excluded from professional sports. Is that such a good idea?

And what about changing rooms and shower rooms in swimming pools, gyms etc.? If the girls are hot, I'm sure most men wouldn't mind freely choosing the changing and shower rooms - or having unisex changing and shower rooms as a necessary result of eleliminating all gender segregation. But I severely doubt most women would be happy about that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INj6HPuKJnk



Why am I not surprised?



                
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Vyse_Blue_Rogue said:
VGPolyglot said:

Do you realize how many transsexuals attempt to commit suicide? It's about 41%:

http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/transgender-suicide/

Discriminating against them further will only make things worse. It's not like they decide "hey, I guess that I'll be a girl today, let's just walk into the women's bathroom." That's not how things work. Now, I'm not sure what your reason is for bathrooms being seperated by gender, but I assume it's because of risk of sexual assault. Well, transgenders are much more at risk of being sexually assaulted than sexually assaulting others:

https://www.ovc.gov/pubs/forge/sexual_numbers.html

The suicide rate is so high because these are deeply disturbed people. They need help, they certainy don't need their delusions encouraged. The suicide rate is the same for pre and post op transexuals, which is a clear demonstration that pandering to these delusions does not help. A man thinking he is a women, or identifying as a women, does not make him a women. If a 30 year old man identified as a 9 year old, should this be respected also, should he be allowed to attend Elementary School?

No, that is just not true. Look at this, depression from pre-op to post op goes down:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/827713

The studies that say that were misrepresenting the original author:

http://transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/myths-about-transition-regrets_b_6160626.html



ArnoldRimmer said:
VGPolyglot said:

No, it's not the only reason,but it's a reflection on society's views and treatment of transsexuals. And in regards to gender segregation,I'd be all for eliminating it, but the problem is that there is a lot that we'd have to address first, like rape culture and so forth.

You somehow did not really comment on the other issues I brought up?

So, what about professional sports? How do you solve the obvious issue that allowing transgender people born as men would give them an unfair advantage in most sports if they could simply choose which gender they play for? How do you fight the obvious potential for abuse that a man could simply claim to be a transgender in order to play for the women's team in professional sports? Or, if completely eliminating gender segration as you suggest, it would obviously be illegal to have female leagues in sports, there could only be unisex leagues - which would in practice result in women more or less being excluded from professional sports. Is that such a good idea?

And what about changing rooms and shower rooms in swimming pools, gyms etc.? If the girls are hot, I'm sure most men wouldn't mind freely choosing the changing and shower rooms - or having unisex changing and shower rooms as a necessary result of eleliminating all gender segregation. But I severely doubt most women would be happy about that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INj6HPuKJnk

Well, I'd support unisex leagues too. And as I said, I'd generally be fine with unisex change rooms, but sexism is still a big problem in our societies so it is not feasible at the moment.



Vyse_Blue_Rogue said:
VGPolyglot said:

Do you realize how many transsexuals attempt to commit suicide? It's about 41%:

http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/transgender-suicide/

Discriminating against them further will only make things worse. It's not like they decide "hey, I guess that I'll be a girl today, let's just walk into the women's bathroom." That's not how things work. Now, I'm not sure what your reason is for bathrooms being seperated by gender, but I assume it's because of risk of sexual assault. Well, transgenders are much more at risk of being sexually assaulted than sexually assaulting others:

https://www.ovc.gov/pubs/forge/sexual_numbers.html

The suicide rate is so high because these are deeply disturbed people. They need help, they certainy don't need their delusions encouraged. The suicide rate is the same for pre and post op transexuals, which is a clear demonstration that pandering to these delusions does not help. A man thinking he is a women, or identifying as a women, does not make him a women. If a 30 year old man identified as a 9 year old, should this be respected also, should he be allowed to attend Elementary School?

You're going with a extreme case. I agree with you, but just in parts. Of course a 30 years old man identifying himself as a 6 years old girl is a problem. That person would never be happy in that way and need to accept who he really is. But, despite that I think a person wanting to change her gender or dress up like the other gender is not natural (that is just MY THOUGHT on the matter, but that means nothing, I'm not a psychologist  or a specialist in sexuality, I'm not calling it wrong or bad, just not natural, I DON'T HAVE PREJUDICE with any kind of people), there's nothing stopping a man of passing through a surgery to looks like a woman in every possible aspect and eventually find happiness with that, she would look in the mirror and feel like a woman. Could even forget her past as a man.



MarkkyStorm said:
niceguygameplayer said:
Fantastic news! Trump may end up being the best president of my lifetime. Common sense may make a comeback.

That's why he was elected in the first place. For the comeback of a little sanity and reasonability. But, I'm a little afraid that maybe he could turn out to just used that for vote.

He was elected on a platform that included leaving this issue where it was, and even said that Caitlyn Jenner was welcome to use any bathroom in Trump Tower.  I had hoped that Trump would be true to his campaign statements where he showed some compassion towards programmes like welfare.

I had hoped he'd try to "drain the swamp" with sweeping campaign finance reform that brought power to the people by taking the big money out of politics, since it would serve him to do so by denying his opponents their vast ill-gotten war chests, whereas he had been so successful running his campaign on such a small budget.  The amount of gerrymandering in U.S. politics is a global embarassment, and shocking to people in many other countries.  Canada, for example, has an independent national electoral commission (Elections Canada) that decide the geographic distribution of the districts, and wouldn't allow for the kinds of games going on in the U.S. where Republicans at the State and local levels carve up the districts in the ways that are most advantageous to Republican electoral prospects as opposed to the fairest for democracy.  In contrast, the head of Elections Canada is so independent that they're not even allowed to vote, as it would be unseemly for someone running the electoral process to even be thinking about who they might prefer to win.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how Trump's supporters who like him because he "tells it like it is" will react to him repudiating specific campaign promises, such as his pledge to protect the LGBTQ community better than Hillary Clinton every would.



VGPolyglot said:
Rogerioandrade said:

I´m not sure about that.  Do they ?

There are two trangenders on the building I work and they don´t care, they use both bathrooms. I saw that happening in public bathrooms too.

That´s  not about what they "feel"to be ... it´s about what they actually are.

That's pretty vague.

1. How did you know that they were transsexual?

2. Did they use them separately before/after coming out?

1. Because they told that to  H.R. when they were employed here.

2. When they came there they already considered themselves transexual so we don´t know. 

People here have been discussing about having a unisex bathroom in certain floors  because we have many visitors daily. I´m not sure if they like the idea or not