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Forums - Microsoft - Why Microsoft doesn't reveal hardware numbers.

Xbox Ones collecting dust in closets confirmed by Phil Spencer.



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Its not rocket science, good press sell consoles and bad press might detract people from buying the consoles. If the roles were reverse Microsoft would be release their top selling numbers and Sony would pick and choose the information that they want release.



Whatever happened to taking things at face value?

A lot of people jumping down Phil's throat.



axumblade said:
 

Fable legends was a shitty idea from the start.

 

Also, Sony is no angel themselves about creating games that never come into fruition. Do you remember deep down? Wardevil? the agent? 

 

Of course people know it happens with Sony too. And for the record, Deep Down isn't canceled. And Agent, we only ASSUME things with that. Nothing was actually said officially about cancellation or continuation. Wardevil however was indeed canceled.

Here's one more thing, NONE of those games were going to be published by Sony. The game you're trying to make an excuse for, Scalebound, was going to be published by Microsoft.

But this wasn't about Sony. This is about Microsoft. Sony didn't show Wardevil, The Agent, or Deep Down, OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, knowing they were going to cancel it, like what Microsoft has been doing



axumblade said:
aLkaLiNE said:

Nope, they've shown tons of games 3 years ahead of release. When was it that quantum break started getting hyped? 

 

 

"They opened the generation hyping a big new AAA stealth/spy IP from Black Tusk, including an E3 teaser trailer completely fabricated from whole cloth and let it float out there like it wasn't absolute bullshit. Then it disappeared and next thing we know Black Tusk is now The Coalition and assigned to turn out Gears games into perpetuity.

They hyped Scalebound at E3 2014, it's now cancelled.

That same E3 they hyped Phantom Dust, also with a complete fabrication of a teaser trailer, by one developer's account have churned through some studios, and the game is coming along so well that when Scalebound was cancelled it didn't even get mentioned on their PR release for upcoming 2017 titles.

Fable Legends was shown and hyped at a time when Lionhead was just hollowed out in terms of staffing. They kept acting like it was a real product. Turns out all the concern related to them having two big rounds of layoffs at the studio leading up to the Fable Legends hype was rather legitimate.

Project Knoxville was cancelled and the studio closed to, in MS' own words, "focus its investment and development on the games and franchises that fans find most exciting and want to play".

This goes along with MS' history of hyping games only to can them. Titles like True Fantasy Live Online and B.C. on Xbox, Project Milo and Project Spark, both show hyped X360 games that never turned into anything, not to mention cancelled partnership projects like Halo: Chronicles and Marvel Universe Online.

It isn't even that MS cancels games. Everyone does. Cancelling the Obsidian project and the like is similar to things that both Sony and Nintendo have done. But MS has a long history of coming to trade shows, showing "conceptual video" of a game no where near that developmental state, letting everyone make assumptions, then when reality sets in a few years later taking the project out back and shooting it while hoping no one notices.

Serious gamers, the kind of people who post here, buy systems for the games we expect to come. MS' entire strategy here is to get this group hyped for their system assuming we won't actually ever hold them accountable for these absurdly early showings that with a sad frequency never even make it out the door. It's made worse by the fact that many of these projects were clearly falsified technically just to make something look cool and their cancellations either reveal that there was no "there" there (Black Tusk's game, B.C.) or that the tech simply didn't work. (Project Spark, Milo)"

 

 

 

This is is legitimately just what Ms does. They would've shown scale bound regardless if it was broken or not so we'll never know. Was fable legends broken too? The quote above is from "Drek" on NeoGAF. He made an excellent post that highlights what's been going on with MS and trying to get new IP out and this is the meat of his post, although there's some potatoes he added that I can quote if anyone wants to read. It's good stuff.

Fable legends was a shitty idea from the start.

 

Also, Sony is no angel themselves about creating games that never come into fruition. Do you remember deep down? Wardevil? the agent? 

 

It seems more like I'm defending this than I really am. I don't necessarily agree with Microsoft's tactics but they are not the only ones that do this. 

They just don't seem to have something to compensate Their audience in the same sense that Sony always seem to have. 

I just saw you on PSN last night and thought, "wow I wonder why he's defending Xbox so much" XD it's all good though I know what you mean, and in response we have Dreks post, pt. 2!

 


For comparison, how have Sony done in this space? I know they shut down a studio, did that take any announced/released games/support with it? That seemed to have mostly blown under the radar due to all these threads.

Everyone has changes in staffing. Sony has closed a lot of their GB studios, but this is an industry-wide phenomenon because it simply isn't worth operating out of GB to employ European talent when many eastern European countries cost far, far less for more or less the same staff. So while Sony has been reducing GB staff they've been rapidly expanding Guerrilla Games. They've also clearly been increasing the staffing at Bend (previously about 60 people, too small for a game like Days Gone), likely the same at Naughty Dog as it moves into a full two titles at once cycle.

But that is largely because Sony's best use of capital as a company is generally pushing out more software, so they're willing to invest in more studios and more titles in the pipeline. They've had some major hiccups themselves this generation, namely Sony Santa Monica's cancelled project. But unlike MS that's a title Sony didn't hint at or tease at all prior to cancelling.

MS meanwhile really needs a title to justify it's expense versus just rolling out more enterprise servers when it comes to how capital is divided. Sony's CEO game from the gaming side. His #2 then is now the head of Sony Worldwide. Playstation is their flagship. Nadella came from the part of MS that actually makes huge stacks of cash and likely looks at Spencer about the same way Sony looks at whomever is running their television manufacturing division. A poor place to allocate capital compared to other in-house options.

 

Regarding Deep Down, we know that Capcom has been operating under a tight budget which is why they needed funding for SFV. Deep down hasn't been cancelled, and I personally expect the game to be rea bounced when the timing is right. Same applies to agent, which Isn't cancelled, but more importantly was only hyped with a logo screen and not with a fabricated trailer. Never heard of wardevil though, what happened there??



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Wait, so vaporware 3rd party games on PS4 is on Sony now? People are reaching hard for equivalencies today.



dexterlablab1 said:

Nintendo would basically decided if customers would like the game rather than let people see for themselves, basically saying to developers "it's our way or no way". So when the PS1 came out and developers didn't have to go through that heavy mandate, they jumped to the PS brand. And to this day Nintendo's 3rd party relations haven't recovered since.

 

When the Official Nintendo Seal of Quality was used, the meaning of the seal was explained as follows:

    This official seal is your assurance that Nintendo has approved the quality of this product. Always look for this seal when buying games and accessories to ensure complete compatibility with your .

Basically this meant that the cartridge works in the named hardware, it had nothing to do with the written quality of the software.

The current Official Nintendo Seal is explained as follows:

    The official seal is your assurance that this product is licensed or manufactured by Nintendo. Always look for this seal when buying video game systems, accessories, games, and related products.

http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Nintendo_Seal_of_Quality

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The seal had nothing to do with quality of game or Nintendo telling what game the developer could make or release.  There were plenty of shit NES games and other games to follow on Nintendo systems.  It was more of a marketing tool which boiled down to the product being officially licensed for release (there were many nonlicensed games including many Bible games).  They jumped ship from Nintendo because Sony offered better terms and easier format compared to carts.  Carts were getting expensive at the time but now finally they are better and superior to disc once again.



axumblade said:
aLkaLiNE said:

I just saw you on PSN last night and thought, "wow I wonder why he's defending Xbox so much" XD it's all good though I know what you mean, and in response we have Dreks post, pt. 2!

 


For comparison, how have Sony done in this space? I know they shut down a studio, did that take any announced/released games/support with it? That seemed to have mostly blown under the radar due to all these threads.

Everyone has changes in staffing. Sony has closed a lot of their GB studios, but this is an industry-wide phenomenon because it simply isn't worth operating out of GB to employ European talent when many eastern European countries cost far, far less for more or less the same staff. So while Sony has been reducing GB staff they've been rapidly expanding Guerrilla Games. They've also clearly been increasing the staffing at Bend (previously about 60 people, too small for a game like Days Gone), likely the same at Naughty Dog as it moves into a full two titles at once cycle.

But that is largely because Sony's best use of capital as a company is generally pushing out more software, so they're willing to invest in more studios and more titles in the pipeline. They've had some major hiccups themselves this generation, namely Sony Santa Monica's cancelled project. But unlike MS that's a title Sony didn't hint at or tease at all prior to cancelling.

MS meanwhile really needs a title to justify it's expense versus just rolling out more enterprise servers when it comes to how capital is divided. Sony's CEO game from the gaming side. His #2 then is now the head of Sony Worldwide. Playstation is their flagship. Nadella came from the part of MS that actually makes huge stacks of cash and likely looks at Spencer about the same way Sony looks at whomever is running their television manufacturing division. A poor place to allocate capital compared to other in-house options.

 

Regarding Deep Down, we know that Capcom has been operating under a tight budget which is why they needed funding for SFV. Deep down hasn't been cancelled, and I personally expect the game to be rea bounced when the timing is right. Same applies to agent, which Isn't cancelled, but more importantly was only hyped with a logo screen and not with a fabricated trailer. Never heard of wardevil though, what happened there??

I never said that Sony weren't better about delivering bad news or have a bad business model overall for their gaming division. I'm just pointing out games get cancelled. 

One of the reasons that it is a big issue for Microsoft is they don't have as many big games in their pipeline so it's more noticeable when they cancel or release a poorly received game. 

Yeah I agree with you and sorry if you feel like I was being rude or mean, didn't mean it like that 



Bandorr said:
KLAMarine said:
Whatever happened to taking things at face value?

A lot of people jumping down Phil's throat.

And by taking things at face value you mean..not calling out the obvious BS?

Why would anyone just willingly accept BS?

They don't release the numbers because it is good PR to not release the numbers. They would get beaten up every single time they did because Sony would always be so far ahead. That isn't bad. Making up some phony excuse as PR is bad.

So how do you feel about Kaz Hirai's explanation on not revealing PSVR sales?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/01/16/is-sonys-psvr-doomed-heading-into-2017/#fc097c036560



KLAMarine said:
Bandorr said:

And by taking things at face value you mean..not calling out the obvious BS?

Why would anyone just willingly accept BS?

They don't release the numbers because it is good PR to not release the numbers. They would get beaten up every single time they did because Sony would always be so far ahead. That isn't bad. Making up some phony excuse as PR is bad.

So how do you feel about Kaz Hirai's explanation on not revealing PSVR sales?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/01/16/is-sonys-psvr-doomed-heading-into-2017/#fc097c036560

I don't feel anything. How do you feel about every VR maker not releasing headset numbers?