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Forums - Gaming - Switch's Gimmick Doesn't Target The Casual Gamer

RolStoppable said:
The main reason why 3D Mario is not as popular as 2D Mario is not that people cannot play it, it's that people get bored too quickly. They expect to go back and forth between losing and winning in a game, not to run around for minutes without facing any real challenge.

Who cares if it's not as "popular"? Since when is that the only metric on what should get made? 3D Mario still sells millions and millions of copies. 

If all you make is 2D Mario over and over and over again, guess what too ... the novetly/nostalgia factor of that lessens each time, and you saw this with the NSMB series where each installment started selling progressively less. 

You need to mix things up. 



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Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:

Ya and like Rol said, you are far more likely to die in 2D Mario than in SM64 and im pretty sure Flappy Bird had a shit load of "Pain process".

Again, i think you have a really weird perception of what makes someone casual.

 

If you can't play anything beyond a 2D Mario ... the problem is you. It's not game developers. I'm sorry. If a 6 year old can learn how to play Mario 64, it's not some esoteric acheivement ... it's simply a matter of having some patience and willingness to learn. 

If you don't have any patience/willingness to invest in a game, you will never really be able to get into games because the range of games that can be made for you are extremely limited. 

Also downloading a free app like Flappy Bird and playing it for 15 minues for a laugh is not the same thing as actually digging into a game. Would any of those people pay $50 for Flappy Bird? Or even $1? How are you supposed to build a business catering to this type of mentality? This is like someone trying to make a movie for an audience that will only watch something for 5 minutes before falling asleep. 

That's not fair to the storyteller, there's an expectation that you're willing to pay attention for at least 45 minutes I would say for any movie. You have to give the design aspect of the entertainment at least a fair shot.

you are making no sense, your current argument is soooooo far from what was originally being discussed that it has nothing to do with anything.

You are the person saying casuals only play super simplistic games, not Rol or I, its almost as if you are arguing with yourself.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:

 

If you can't play anything beyond a 2D Mario ... the problem is you. It's not game developers. I'm sorry. If a 6 year old can learn how to play Mario 64, it's not some esoteric acheivement ... it's simply a matter of having some patience and willingness to learn. 

If you don't have any patience/willingness to invest in a game, you will never really be able to get into games because the range of games that can be made for you are extremely limited. 

Also downloading a free app like Flappy Bird and playing it for 15 minues for a laugh is not the same thing as actually digging into a game. Would any of those people pay $50 for Flappy Bird? Or even $1? How are you supposed to build a business catering to this type of mentality? This is like someone trying to make a movie for an audience that will only watch something for 5 minutes before falling asleep. 

That's not fair to the storyteller, there's an expectation that you're willing to pay attention for at least 45 minutes I would say for any movie. You have to give the design aspect of the entertainment at least a fair shot.

you are making no sense, your current argument is soooooo far from what was originally being discussed that it has nothing to do with anything.

You are the person saying casuals only play super simplistic games, not Rol or I, its almost as if you are arguing with yourself.

Because uh they do? Which very casual do you know could even play Zelda: Ocarina of Time? 

Nintendo spent an entire decade trying to get these people "hooked" on basically all they're willing to play a free smartphone apps today, very few/almost none of that Wii Sports/Fit audience ever gave anything but maybe 1-2 Mario games a shot. 

You can't build a reliable audience from a demographic that fickle or inherintely opposed to basically the major foundations of game design (which is basically You die. You don't cry and bitch, you try again. And again. And again. Until you get better. If you can't do this, then gaming likely isn't for you). 

But if you want to get back to the OP's point, sure, Switch is fairly hardcore game platform. Possibly the most hardcore plaform they've made since the GameCube. And that's ok. 



Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:

you are making no sense, your current argument is soooooo far from what was originally being discussed that it has nothing to do with anything.

You are the person saying casuals only play super simplistic games, not Rol or I, its almost as if you are arguing with yourself.

Because uh they do? Which very casual do you know could even play Zelda: Ocarina of Time? 

Nintendo spent an entire decade trying to get these people "hooked" on basically all they're willing to play a free smartphone apps today, very few/almost none of that Wii Sports/Fit audience ever gave anything but maybe 1-2 Mario games a shot. 

You can't build a reliable audience from a demographic that fickle or inherintely opposed to basically the major foundations of game design (which is basically You die. You don't cry and bitch, you try again. And again. And again. Until you get better. If you can't do this, then gaming likely isn't for you). 

But if you want to get back to the OP's point, sure, Switch is fairly hardcore game platform. Possibly the most hardcore plaform they've made since the GameCube. And that's ok. 

once again, you are oversimplifying what a casual is



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

But anyway I dont see how the controller is so difficult.

When held sideways a Joycon is a SNES controller with a control stick instead of a D-Pad.

When used upright, they are the equivalent of a Wii Remote or PS Move controller.

When combined its a standard dual-analog controllers.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
But anyway I dont see how the controller is so difficult.

When held sideways a Joycon is a SNES controller with a control stick instead of a D-Pad.

When used upright, they are the equivalent of a Wii Remote or PS Move controller.

When combined its a standard dual-analog controllers.

If you're talking about the average "2D Mario is the most complex type of game I can play and even then I stopped after World 3" crowd, that is fairly complex. 

Even Super NES is beyond a lot of them. That's four face buttons + a clickable analog stick + 2 shoulder buttons ... that's a lot for them to remember/handle (which button is Y again? Where's X? What the hell is a SL button? Why is B before A?). One of the common complaints during the show was also that it's fairly easy to press the wrong button in that SNES layout because the buttons are so close to each other. And that's the "simple" layout. The "standard" dual Joycon/dual analog set up .... forget it. These people are gonna be lost with 95% of the games shown. 



Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:
But anyway I dont see how the controller is so difficult.

When held sideways a Joycon is a SNES controller with a control stick instead of a D-Pad.

When used upright, they are the equivalent of a Wii Remote or PS Move controller.

When combined its a standard dual-analog controllers.

If you're talking about the average "2D Mario is the most complex type of game I can play and even then I stopped after World 3" crowd, that is fairly complex. 

Even Super NES is beyond a lot of them. That's four face buttons + a clickable analog stick + 2 shoulder buttons ... that's a lot for them to remember/handle (which button is Y again? Where's X? What the hell is a SL button?). One of the common complaints during the show was also that it's fairly easy to press the wrong button in that SNES layout because the buttons are so close to each other. And that's the "simple" layout. The "standard" dual Joycon/dual analog set up .... forget it. These people are gonna be lost with 95% of the games shown. 

you have got to be the most stubborn person on this site



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:

If you're talking about the average "2D Mario is the most complex type of game I can play and even then I stopped after World 3" crowd, that is fairly complex. 

Even Super NES is beyond a lot of them. That's four face buttons + a clickable analog stick + 2 shoulder buttons ... that's a lot for them to remember/handle (which button is Y again? Where's X? What the hell is a SL button?). One of the common complaints during the show was also that it's fairly easy to press the wrong button in that SNES layout because the buttons are so close to each other. And that's the "simple" layout. The "standard" dual Joycon/dual analog set up .... forget it. These people are gonna be lost with 95% of the games shown. 

you have got to be the most stubborn person on this site

Dude, lol, Super NES controls are fairly complex there's nothing wrong in saying that. A lot of people can't handle a SNES controller, beyond that most standard Switch games require both sides of that controller to play, which is baiscally a PS4/XB1/Wii U layout. 

When I try to get my fiance to even play like SNES games it's a whole lot of "where's X? I am pressing X, no wait that's Y, what's L? Oh you mean L like left, why didn't you say that? Why's B before A? That doesn't even make sense", there's no way she'd be able to play like even 10% of the games that Nintendo showed at that conference. For a lot of people even a Super NES controller is very complex and definitely not "casual friendly". 



It's like Wii U, it's trying to be likable to anyone but in this case it's on handled size and trying to sell to people who like mobile gaming and playing PC, PS4 and Xbox One and also trying to penetrate smart devices consumer.



HollyGamer said:
It's like Wii U, it's trying to be likable to anyone but in this case it's on handled size and trying to sell to people who like mobile gaming and playing PC, PS4 and Xbox One and also trying to penetrate smart devices consumer.

I don't think it's really seriously trying to get mobile gamers at all. 

If it was Nintendo surely would've slapped a camera on it for AR games to try and capitalize on the Pokemon Go craze, the fact that they're not even bothering to include a $1 camera on it like the 3DS/2DS has is telling that they're not even bothering. 

This is clearly a device for people who want the complexity of a modern home console but with the ability to play that same experience on the go, and that is a level of complexity well beyond any device on the market today be it smartphones or even a 3DS. 

I don't think there will be many motion only or touch only games at all period, partly because motion games can't be played on a bus, train, car, airplane, or many public settings and that's a no-go for a device like this. Touch only doesn't work great either because the screen's touch panel is inoperable when used at home. 

Games are going to have rely on traditional controls or at least have the option for them, in which case it sort of limits how crazy you can get with say motion.