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Forums - Sales Discussion - December 2016 NPD Thread! The Last Guardian and Dead Rising 4 sales up!

Soundwave on 12 January 2017
Neodegenerate said:
Soundwave said:

One model almost outselling two models ... is that spin? Especially when that one model was previously getting dominated? 

It is spin when, again, you aren't taking into account what happened in the previous year.

When you are discussing sales between two companies between two years you have 3 items in play: Company 1, Company 2, and the Previous Year.

If in the previous year Sony had HUGE game releases in Battlefront and CoD and others as mentioned by others before, that explains them being down YoY.  The fact that you aren't willing to see those as reasons and just touting the success of the XB1, is spin.

If in the previous year the XB1 was doing poorly because it only had the one model that wasn't the XB1S and suddenly it has a new model and is doing better, and you aren't taking that previous year into account as to why it is up YoY then that is spin.

Also, in some of the months that MS did win this year, didn't they have a fire sale on the non-XB1S model in order to make room for their "one" model?

Also, losing by 100k in Nov, while close in the grand scheme, isn't "almost outselling" anything.  That in itself is spin as well.

So Sony can be down YoY for every reason BUT for competetion from XBox One? It can't possibly ever be that MS was simply a much tougher opponent this year and is making Sony sweat a lot more. 

Do I have that about right? 



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GribbleGrunger on 12 January 2017
Neodegenerate said:

It is spin when, again, you aren't taking into account what happened in the previous year.

When you are discussing sales between two companies between two years you have 3 items in play: Company 1, Company 2, and the Previous Year.

If in the previous year Sony had HUGE game releases in Battlefront and CoD and others as mentioned by others before, that explains them being down YoY.  The fact that you aren't willing to see those as reasons and just touting the success of the XB1, is spin.

If in the previous year the XB1 was doing poorly because it only had the one model that wasn't the XB1S and suddenly it has a new model and is doing better, and you aren't taking that previous year into account as to why it is up YoY then that is spin.

Also, in some of the months that MS did win this year, didn't they have a fire sale on the non-XB1S model in order to make room for their "one" model?

Also, losing by 100k in Nov, while close in the grand scheme, isn't "almost outselling" anything.  That in itself is spin as well.

Spot on but you're wasting your time.



 

The PS5 Exists. 


Neodegenerate on 12 January 2017
Soundwave said:
Neodegenerate said:

It is spin when, again, you aren't taking into account what happened in the previous year.

When you are discussing sales between two companies between two years you have 3 items in play: Company 1, Company 2, and the Previous Year.

If in the previous year Sony had HUGE game releases in Battlefront and CoD and others as mentioned by others before, that explains them being down YoY.  The fact that you aren't willing to see those as reasons and just touting the success of the XB1, is spin.

If in the previous year the XB1 was doing poorly because it only had the one model that wasn't the XB1S and suddenly it has a new model and is doing better, and you aren't taking that previous year into account as to why it is up YoY then that is spin.

Also, in some of the months that MS did win this year, didn't they have a fire sale on the non-XB1S model in order to make room for their "one" model?

Also, losing by 100k in Nov, while close in the grand scheme, isn't "almost outselling" anything.  That in itself is spin as well.

So Sony can be down YoY for every reason BUT for competetion from XBox One? Because obviously that could never possibly happen. 

Do I have that about right? 

Wow now you are even trying to spin my words.

I said there are 3 things in play, I said you were ignoring one.  How does that mean I am ignoring the other?  Especially since, in other posts, I have agreed that XB1 has gotten more competitive.

It's like you are trying to find ways to say we are picking on you.

#ForumLogic indeed



Aura7541 on 12 January 2017
Soundwave said:
Neodegenerate said:

It is spin when, again, you aren't taking into account what happened in the previous year.

When you are discussing sales between two companies between two years you have 3 items in play: Company 1, Company 2, and the Previous Year.

If in the previous year Sony had HUGE game releases in Battlefront and CoD and others as mentioned by others before, that explains them being down YoY.  The fact that you aren't willing to see those as reasons and just touting the success of the XB1, is spin.

If in the previous year the XB1 was doing poorly because it only had the one model that wasn't the XB1S and suddenly it has a new model and is doing better, and you aren't taking that previous year into account as to why it is up YoY then that is spin.

Also, in some of the months that MS did win this year, didn't they have a fire sale on the non-XB1S model in order to make room for their "one" model?

Also, losing by 100k in Nov, while close in the grand scheme, isn't "almost outselling" anything.  That in itself is spin as well.

So Sony can be down YoY for every reason BUT for competetion from XBox One? It can't possibly ever be that MS was simply a much tougher opponent this year and is making Sony sweat a lot more. 

Do I have that about right? 

This was not Neodegenerate's point, at all... He was providing other reasons for the PS4's YOY decline that should also be acknowledged.

EDIT: Beaten



Soundwave on 12 January 2017

Not only has XB1 gotten more competitive, but the whole "wait till Sony releases the PS4 Pro and PS4 Slim, people are just waiting for those to come out that's the only reason MS is doing well at all" talk from a few months turned out to be bunk, then no?

MS is not only more than holding their own since the PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro launched, they are far closer than I bet 90% of this forum would have ever thought.



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Muffin31190 on 12 January 2017
Soundwave said:

Sony would have lost this holiday season entirely without PS4 Pro IMO. No doubt that added at least 300-400k to their overall sales from November onwards, otherwise MS probably wins this holiday. PS4 Slim wasn't nearly as enthusiastically recieved as the XBox One S. 

US was XBox 360 Land too, lets not forget that, now that MS is removed a lot of the issues the XBox One had in the past with a fresh rebranding, it's not even that surprising that they are more competetive. People hate to say it, but the XBox brand still has considerable sway in the US. 

And even with all that they have done with the Xbox it is still losing (and they have done a lot). Year over year the gap between the PS4 and Xbox widens in the PS4's favor not only in the world but the US as well.

You can try and look at it any way you want, though if the PS4Pro wasn't out it would not have made that much of a difference, because they didnt put it out there Sony would have allocated its recources somewhere else, but if you think the pro really makes that much of difference thats your opnion.

But Just Imagine if there Was a Battlefield or Overwatch PS4 bundle, I mean even Japan and Europe had a FF15 bundle but all the US had was the Uncharted Bundle, compared to the 6 different bundles the Xbox had, it doesnt seem like Sony put as much effort in to securing 3rd party bundles as Microsoft did.

Last but not least, I believe the Xbox lost this generation to the PS4, weather it be World Wide or just the US. I just believe it comes down to games and the PS4 has more games that you cant get on the Xbox. So say what you will but even when the Xbox does well the PS4 just does better.



Soundwave on 12 January 2017
Aura7541 said:
Soundwave said:

So Sony can be down YoY for every reason BUT for competetion from XBox One? It can't possibly ever be that MS was simply a much tougher opponent this year and is making Sony sweat a lot more. 

Do I have that about right? 

This was not Neodegenerate's point, at all... He was providing other reasons for the PS4's YOY decline that should also be acknowledged.

EDIT: Beaten

MS doesn't have a new Halo this year, yet they are doing fine. Which games does MS have this year that should be keeping them so much more competetive. With respect, Gears alone isn't that big of a game changer, it's a smaller IP than Halo. 

They both have Slim models.

Sony also has a Pro model on top of that. 

One is trending up, the other trended down. Sorry but that is a fact for December. 

I acknowledge PS4's decline, I'm just saying it could also be freaking Microsoft that is also one reason why. MS is a lot tougher than they were one year ago. 



Intrinsic on 12 January 2017
Soundwave said:

What spin?

MS has plenty of reason to be proud of what they've accomplished this year.

Sony has TWO models. Let me retierate that since it gets glossed over. TWO models. Going against a ONE model system they were previously dominating. 

If Sony didn't have PS4 Pro, even though it didn't appear to help that much, they probably would have lost this holiday season period. 

I have answered this claim of yours and you apparently glossed over my answer.

I will reiterate too.

One of those two models came without a game, cost $150 more and was in limited supply.

But I am guessing that price doesnt matter and a $400 box should sell as much as a $250 box with a game? All sales indications suggest that the PS4pro sales only account for just like 10% of total PS4 sales.

And something else you seem to ignore.... you do realize that the PS4pro is just a souped up PS4 right? Chances are that majority of the people that are buying it now aren't going to be the people that haven't bought a PS4 for the past 3yrs while waiting for it to get cheaper. What does this say? It says that a lot of PS4pro early adopters are going to be existing PS4 owners who would more than likely give away their old PS4 or trade it in which in turn means there used market will have lots of PS4s all in this same holiday window.



Neodegenerate on 12 January 2017
Soundwave said:
Not only has XB1 gotten more competitive, but the whole "wait till Sony releases the PS4 Pro and PS4 Slim, people are just waiting for those to come out that's the only reason MS is doing well at all" talk from a few months turned out to be bunk, then no?

MS is not only more than holding their own since the PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro launched, they are far closer than I bet 90% of this forum would have ever thought.

It is so weird to me that you can have one post that is complete and utter spin, and then another that is logical and that I can agree with.

The bolded here btw, I agree with 100%.  I figured with the slim and pro (much more pro than slim) and even VR that PS would have a much larger lead in the past couple months.  And I know I am not the only one who thought that.  Though I am not bolding your 90% because I feel like that number is a bit high.



Soundwave on 12 January 2017
Intrinsic said:
Soundwave said:

What spin?

MS has plenty of reason to be proud of what they've accomplished this year.

Sony has TWO models. Let me retierate that since it gets glossed over. TWO models. Going against a ONE model system they were previously dominating. 

If Sony didn't have PS4 Pro, even though it didn't appear to help that much, they probably would have lost this holiday season period. 

I have answered this claim of yours and you apparently glossed over my answer.

I will reiterate too.

One of those two models came without a game, cost $150 more and was in limited supply.

But I am guessing that price doesnt matter and a $400 box should sell as much as a $250 box with a game? All sales indications suggest that the PS4pro sales only account for just like 10% of total PS4 sales.

And something else you seem to ignore.... you do realize that the PS4pro is just a souped up PS4 right? Chances are that majority of the people that are buying it now aren't going to be the people that haven't bought a PS4 for the past 3yrs while waiting for it to get cheaper. What does this say? It says that a lot of PS4pro early adopters are going to be existing PS4 owners who would more than likely give away their old PS4 or trade it in which in turn means there used market will have lots of PS4s all in this same holiday window.

Sure. 

And MS is simply much more competetive this year, as such they are eating a bigger piece of the console pie this year. That too could also be a primary factor here. Of course tha point you don't want to acknowledge. 

From my experience most "core" gamers in the US are not nearly as console-fan boy-ish about their allegiances as the types of chatter you get on message boards. XBox is cool. So is Playstation. Most people don't mind playing on either one. MS is becoming more competetive because they have ironed out IMO a lot of their early mistakes and with a refresh they are seeing a bigger swing of sales coming their way. 

Either way we're definitely not seeing the much bally-hooed "Sony is gonna blow away XBox when PS4 Pro and PS4 Slim arrive, people are just waiting for Sony, just you wait and see" effect at all.