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JWeinCom said:
COKTOE said:

I appreciate the information, and breakdown. I'm not sure how to word this...Look, it's not a hill I'm going to die on, but to me "M$" is fairly harmless. Older than dirt too. But, if it's bothering some members, and/or the mod team sees it's restriction as preventative measure, so be it.

Well, like I said in the original conversation, rules can be discussed. I can't really see a reason to use it, and I think the approach we're taking, basically saying that's not cool just use "MS" for the first time, is a fair one. Throwing shade for no reason is not allowed, and that's what I think this does. And, I don't think any user's experience on the board will be really hurt by having to use MS instead of M$. So, that's why I think think the current policy is a good one. 

If you can think of a compelling reason to allow M$, then that's what this thread is for.

Beyond my belief that it's an innocuous term, I have no reason, and I'm not in possession of information I could use to make any kind of case. I've never witnessed it's usage cause any kind of trouble, but it's hardly something I've kept tabs on either. I guess what I'd like to know is: Do people send in reports when it is used? I know you're pretty new to the job, and may not be able to answer based on your experiences thus far. As I've already mentioned, I understand this may be more of a preventative measure, so regardless of your answer, or that of a longer tenured mod, a change in this policy is not something I'm going to pursue with much vigor.



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COKTOE said:
JWeinCom said:

Well, like I said in the original conversation, rules can be discussed. I can't really see a reason to use it, and I think the approach we're taking, basically saying that's not cool just use "MS" for the first time, is a fair one. Throwing shade for no reason is not allowed, and that's what I think this does. And, I don't think any user's experience on the board will be really hurt by having to use MS instead of M$. So, that's why I think think the current policy is a good one. 

If you can think of a compelling reason to allow M$, then that's what this thread is for.

Beyond my belief that it's an innocuous term, I have no reason, and I'm not in possession of information I could use to make any kind of case. I've never witnessed it's usage cause any kind of trouble, but it's hardly something I've kept tabs on either. I guess what I'd like to know is: Do people send in reports when it is used? I know you're pretty new to the job, and may not be able to answer based on your experiences thus far. As I've already mentioned, I understand this may be more of a preventative measure, so regardless of your answer, or that of a longer tenured mod, a change in this policy is not something I'm going to pursue with much vigor.

I think the term is basically a shorthand for Microsoft is greedy, which is something we'd act upon in many circumstances (mainly if it's not supported by some actual reasoning).

I haven't seen specific reports for the term M$, but it is to my recollection (I can't see resolved reports) a common term in posts that are reported for trolling in generalns, and one that gets thrown around a lot in convos that lead to moderation. Also, there's a kind of chicken and egg thing going on. When people know it's something that will get moderated, they may report it more.

Like I said, it's a policy that's open to discussion, and if you're not that invested in the issue, then don't feel obligated. To the main point, in this particular circumstance, I think action was warranted based on the context. If the community doesn't like a rule, they can discuss it and we can reconsider. For obvious reasons, people can't just exempt themselves from certain rules.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 05 August 2020

 its just meant to insult even if you dont think it is personally

Last edited by kirby007 - on 06 August 2020

 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

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kirby007 said:

 its just meant to insult even if you dont think it is personally

The reverse can just as easily be said, it's not meant to insult even if you think it is personally. Context is everything when determining what is or isn't an insult.



Lonely_Dolphin said:
kirby007 said:

 its just meant to insult even if you dont think it is personally

The reverse can just as easily be said, it's not meant to insult even if you think it is personally. Context is everything when determining what is or isn't an insult.

that is not how this works.
even if I'm not offended by a derogatory term it still is, in this case M$ doesn't have any positive connotation



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

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kirby007 said:
Lonely_Dolphin said:

The reverse can just as easily be said, it's not meant to insult even if you think it is personally. Context is everything when determining what is or isn't an insult.

that is not how this works.
even if I'm not offended by a derogatory term it still is, in this case M$ doesn't have any positive connotation

This whole discussion itself is proof that's exactly how it works, or at least should if we care about logic and fairness, otherwise Jweincom and Cocktoe would need to be banned.

To you it doesn't, but perhaps to another it simply means Microsoft is rich, to another a more creative way to abbreviate Microsoft. Even the N word is used to casually address people and friends.



Lonely_Dolphin said:
kirby007 said:

that is not how this works.
even if I'm not offended by a derogatory term it still is, in this case M$ doesn't have any positive connotation

This whole discussion itself is proof that's exactly how it works, or at least should if we care about logic and fairness, otherwise Jweincom and Cocktoe would need to be banned.

To you it doesn't, but perhaps to another it simply means Microsoft is rich, to another a more creative way to abbreviate Microsoft. Even the N word is used to casually address people and friends.

sure if you are on the street and call a friend the n word *with or without r* someone else is going to be a unhappy 3rd party even if you meant in good faith between the 2 of you.
aside from your absurd logic that just because they mention it(M$) here in a hypothetical situation they should be banned, is also different from using it in an actual discussion on the rest of the forum

EDI: I could agree its about the intend behind the word, but mainly its used to trigger others in which case the intent is malicious



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 said:

sure if you are on the street and call a friend the n word *with or without r* someone else is going to be a unhappy 3rd party even if you meant in good faith between the 2 of you.
aside from your absurd logic that just because they mention it(M$) here in a hypothetical situation they should be banned, is also different from using it in an actual discussion on the rest of the forum

EDI: I could agree its about the intend behind the word, but mainly its used to trigger others in which case the intent is malicious

That's not my logic, that's what reality would be if we didn't care about context, if we punished people for doing specific things without caring about the why or how, but I'm glad you agree it's absurd.



Lonely_Dolphin said:
kirby007 said:

that is not how this works.
even if I'm not offended by a derogatory term it still is, in this case M$ doesn't have any positive connotation

This whole discussion itself is proof that's exactly how it works, or at least should if we care about logic and fairness, otherwise Jweincom and Cocktoe would need to be banned.

To you it doesn't, but perhaps to another it simply means Microsoft is rich, to another a more creative way to abbreviate Microsoft. Even the N word is used to casually address people and friends.

Obvious there are some contexts where it's ok, as you point out this discussion being one of them. And I gave another example earlier. If for instance someone referred to them as M$ in response to a particularly good quarterly report, that'd probably be ok.

So, to be clear, yes context does matter, but there are very few contexts I can imagine where it would be acceptable. 



SpokenTruth said:
I have an idea. Don't do it. It's trolling and you will get moderated for it.

Who are you talking to? No one said they wanted to be able to say it freely, and if you think that was my implication, it's not. Just as laughable as it is to get offended by a dollar sign, so to is it silly needing and demanding the use of said dollar sign when addressing Microsoft as if that somehow changes anything.