By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - What Do You Expect From Gen 8 Of Pokemon?

Frogger on 06 December 2016
Einsam_Delphin said:
spemanig said:

There are 2 Buzzwole, 4 Pheromosa, 2 Xurkitree, 4 Kartana, 2 Celesteela, and even though you can only catch one, numerous Nihilego are seen. There are legendary Pokemon with genders as well as plenty of normal Pokemon without them. There is a legendary Pokemon that can breed. Every UB but Celesteela have at least 2 stats that are in the 50s or below, and there are numerous normal Pokemon with base stats higher than the Ultra Beasts. (ya kno like megas bro)

Silvally has the same BST as UBs, is genderless, cannot breed, and the player is only given one in the entire game unlike most of the Ultra Beasts. Is Sylvally "from a gameplay standpoint functionally the same" as a legendary? Of course not. Neither are UBs.

You read that entire post and stopped at "like Butterfree." I compare them to Mega Pokemon.

Interesting, but still it's a limited number versus normal Pokemon which you can get an infinite number of. I know not all of them do, but that's the general criteria most legendarys follow. I said really high stats, not the best stats, and Mega evolution is a mid-battle form change that requires a held item, it's not the base Pokemon itself. That's also why I wouldn't compare them to UBs, they're their own Pokemon, not a state that can benefit other Pokemon.

Silvally is Type Null's evolution, so there's that, but if someone wants to consider that a legendary then I have no issue. Afterall Solgelao and Lunala are technically evolved forms aswell.

There have been plenty of non-legendary pokemon you could only have a limited number of. Only two Snorlax in RBGY, one in GSC, and another in XY. One Hitmon and on fossil and one Aerodactyle. Only one Sudowoodo in both GSC and Emerald. Zoroark was literally only obtainable by having three special shiny event legendaries in your party in BW or by evolving a gift Zorua, so there were only two. There was only one Volcarona in BW, and it was a level 70 Pokemon. I can do this forever. Scarcity doesn't make a Pokemon legendary, it just makes them rare.

There's a plot reason for it, though. UBs aren't the base pokemon themselves either. That's what I'm trying to say. UBs are pokemon who have been augmented by ultra wormhole energy, the same way Megas have been augmented by mega energy. The difference is that we know the original forms of megas. We're never introduced to normal ultra beasts because they're from another dimention. They are implied to not naturally be like that. UBs are in a state. Ultra Boost is part of the ultra wormhole corruption. The boosted stats are the ultra wormhole corruption. I can't say that enough.

Lunaala is Cosmog's evolution, so there's that. And plot-wise Type: Null and Sylvally are the same Pokemon. Null is literally Sylvally with a restrictive mask. So Sylvally is the original form, while Null is the restricted form because Sylvally was too powerful. Sylvally - Not a legendary. UBs, not legendaries either. None of your points hold up.



Around the Network
Frogger on 06 December 2016
Ka-pi96 said:

huh, I`m curious now how you think they moved backwards with the 6th gen?

Plot and region geography.



Frogger on 06 December 2016
Ka-pi96 said:
spemanig said:

Plot and region geography.

Well I only played up until about the 3rd gym badge of X so can`t really comment on either properly, but on the geography aspect... you didn`t like PokeFrance? :o

No, I love the setting. I'm talking about the literal structure of the routes and towns.



Lonely_Dolphin on 06 December 2016
spemanig said:
Einsam_Delphin said:

Interesting, but still it's a limited number versus normal Pokemon which you can get an infinite number of. I know not all of them do, but that's the general criteria most legendarys follow. I said really high stats, not the best stats, and Mega evolution is a mid-battle form change that requires a held item, it's not the base Pokemon itself. That's also why I wouldn't compare them to UBs, they're their own Pokemon, not a state that can benefit other Pokemon.

Silvally is Type Null's evolution, so there's that, but if someone wants to consider that a legendary then I have no issue. Afterall Solgelao and Lunala are technically evolved forms aswell.

There have been plenty of non-legendary pokemon you could only have a limited number of. Only two Snorlax in RBGY, one in GSC, and another in XY. One Hitmon and on fossil and one Aerodactyle. Only one Sudowoodo in both GSC and Emerald. Zoroark was literally only obtainable by having three special shiny event legendaries in your party in BW or by evolving a gift Zorua, so there were only two. There was only one Volcarona in BW, and it was a level 70 Pokemon. I can do this forever. Scarcity doesn't make a Pokemon legendary, it just makes them rare.

There's a plot reason for it, though. UBs aren't the base pokemon themselves either. That's what I'm trying to say. UBs are pokemon who have been augmented by ultra wormhole energy, the same way Megas have been augmented by mega energy. The difference is that we know the original forms of megas. We're never introduced to normal ultra beasts because they're from another dimention. They are implied to not naturally be like that. UBs are in a state. Ultra Boost is part of the ultra wormhole corruption. The boosted stats are the ultra wormhole corruption. I can't say that enough.

Lunaala is Cosmog's evolution, so there's that. And plot-wise Type: Null and Sylvally are the same Pokemon. Null is literally Sylvally with a restrictive mask. So Sylvally is the original form, while Null is the restricted form because Sylvally was too powerful. Sylvally - Not a legendary. UBs, not legendaries either. None of your points hold up.

Scarcity or any factor by itself no, but in tandem with the other aforementioned factors yes.

Again, I don't really care about the plot, so I'm speaking only from a gameplay perspective. UBs simply fill the same exact gameplay role as lengendarys, powerful post-game bosses.



Frogger on 06 December 2016
Einsam_Delphin said:
spemanig said:

There have been plenty of non-legendary pokemon you could only have a limited number of. Only two Snorlax in RBGY, one in GSC, and another in XY. One Hitmon and on fossil and one Aerodactyle. Only one Sudowoodo in both GSC and Emerald. Zoroark was literally only obtainable by having three special shiny event legendaries in your party in BW or by evolving a gift Zorua, so there were only two. There was only one Volcarona in BW, and it was a level 70 Pokemon. I can do this forever. Scarcity doesn't make a Pokemon legendary, it just makes them rare.

There's a plot reason for it, though. UBs aren't the base pokemon themselves either. That's what I'm trying to say. UBs are pokemon who have been augmented by ultra wormhole energy, the same way Megas have been augmented by mega energy. The difference is that we know the original forms of megas. We're never introduced to normal ultra beasts because they're from another dimention. They are implied to not naturally be like that. UBs are in a state. Ultra Boost is part of the ultra wormhole corruption. The boosted stats are the ultra wormhole corruption. I can't say that enough.

Lunaala is Cosmog's evolution, so there's that. And plot-wise Type: Null and Sylvally are the same Pokemon. Null is literally Sylvally with a restrictive mask. So Sylvally is the original form, while Null is the restricted form because Sylvally was too powerful. Sylvally - Not a legendary. UBs, not legendaries either. None of your points hold up.

Scarcity or any factor by itself no, but in tandem with the other aforementioned factors yes.

Again, I don't really care about the plot, so I'm speaking only from a gameplay perspective. UBs simply fill the same exact gameplay role as lengendarys, powerful post-game bosses.

No, not in tandem with the other factors. I've already mentioned examples that defy your qualifications. Volcarona was a powerful post-game boss. Level 70. Not a legendary. Shiny Hidden Ability Haxorus was. Level 60 AND higher BST than all of the UBs. Not a legendary. HGSS Snorlax was. Level 50. Not a legendary. ORAS Spiritomb was. Level 50. Not a legendary. Being a powerful end-game boss doesn't make a Pokémon "treated like a legendary." It just makes them an endgame boss.

Thd only thing that makes a legendary Pokémon "treated like a legendary Pokémon" is plot. To dismiss that is to dismiss fact.



Around the Network
Lonely_Dolphin on 06 December 2016
spemanig said:
Einsam_Delphin said:

Scarcity or any factor by itself no, but in tandem with the other aforementioned factors yes.

Again, I don't really care about the plot, so I'm speaking only from a gameplay perspective. UBs simply fill the same exact gameplay role as lengendarys, powerful post-game bosses.

No, not in tandem with the other factors. I've already mentioned examples that defy your qualifications. Volcarona was a powerful post-game boss. Level 70. Not a legendary. Shiny Hidden Ability Haxorus was. Level 60 AND higher BST than all of the UBs. Not a legendary. HGSS Snorlax was. Level 50. Not a legendary. ORAS Spiritomb was. Level 50. Not a legendary. Being a powerful end-game boss doesn't make a Pokémon "treated like a legendary." It just makes them an endgame boss.

Thd only thing that makes a legendary Pokémon "treated like a legendary Pokémon" is plot. To dismiss that is to dismiss fact.

 

Because they're post game bosses alone is not why they're considered legendary, it's that plus high stats, guaranteed 3IVs, genderless, unbreedable, limited number per game, no evolution, etc. All those factors at once are generally associated with legendarys.

Anyway, we're obviously not gonna convince each other so I'll be done here. I'm going to view them as legendarys, and if people have a problem with that, too bad!



caffeinade on 06 December 2016
Einsam_Delphin said:
spemanig said:

No, not in tandem with the other factors. I've already mentioned examples that defy your qualifications. Volcarona was a powerful post-game boss. Level 70. Not a legendary. Shiny Hidden Ability Haxorus was. Level 60 AND higher BST than all of the UBs. Not a legendary. HGSS Snorlax was. Level 50. Not a legendary. ORAS Spiritomb was. Level 50. Not a legendary. Being a powerful end-game boss doesn't make a Pokémon "treated like a legendary." It just makes them an endgame boss.

Thd only thing that makes a legendary Pokémon "treated like a legendary Pokémon" is plot. To dismiss that is to dismiss fact.

 

Because they're post game bosses alone is not why they're considered legendary, it's that plus high stats, guaranteed 3IVs, genderless, unbreedable, limited number per game, no evolution, etc. All those factors at once are generally associated with legendarys.

Anyway, we're obviously not gonna convince each other so I'll be done here. I'm going to view them as legendarys, and if people have a problem with that, too bad!

Do we include Solgaleo or Lunala as legendaries as they are technically Ultra Beats, as stated in game.

My viewpoint is that Ultra Beasts whilst a nice addition to the pokemon world, do add too much if we are to consider them to be in the same league as regular pokemon. I would not of objected to them being unobtainable, save for perhaps Solgaleo and Lunala. A sizable portion of me wishes that they be excluded from other games (aside from transferring from Sun and/ or Moon).



caffeinade on 06 December 2016

I hope and expect Gen 8:

    Takes us to a place that we have not been before (or goes back to Japan).
    Ties up some loose ends from older games, whilst add new ones.
    Builds on the current lore of Pokemon in meaningful ways.
    Is expansive in its world, in both size and variation of environments.
    Gives us a plot that is both easy to follow, but rich with complexity.
    Has simple yet inspired Pokemon designs.
    Gives us the ability to jump, if only ornamental.
    To add the ability to travel to more than one region.
    To sell really well.

I think I am setting myself up for failure.



Mike321 on 06 December 2016

All I ask for is new pokemon with unique typings and new abilities, and more megaevolutions if they don't drop them.



                                                                                     

caffeinade on 07 December 2016
Mike321 said:
All I ask for is new pokemon with unique typings and new abilities, and more megaevolutions if they don't drop them.

New megas would be nice. But if they are going to add pokemon that are not up to design standards... Well I will still buy the games, but I will complain a little.