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Forums - Politics - So, TPP is not going to happen.

 

Is getting rid of the TPP good?

Yes 81 68.07%
 
No 19 15.97%
 
Meh... 3 2.52%
 
Don't know enough to form a concise opinion 16 13.45%
 
Total:119
Teeqoz on 23 November 2016
WolfpackN64 said:
Teeqoz said:

The quest to automate all jobs is what will ultimately lead to a less capitalistic and more socialistic.ish/communistic-ish society though. You should be applauding it. In the long term, there is no way a shrinking working population can still lead to growth in demand. (And the working population will decrease. Guaranteed.)

The only way that benefits humans at all in such a society where robots/computers/AI can do every task better and more efficient than any human, is a program with basic income where the society owns (at least a big part of) the means of production together, with money being distributed among everyone. People are then free to choose what they want to spend it on.

Not if those machines would be in the hands of the few, keeping most profits to themselves. A base income could be a good idea, but not at the cost of social programs.

I'm saying that it simply won't benefit the few that own those machines if there are literally zero consumers because no one have jobs. In that case, you can manufacture as much as you like, but if no one buys anything (which they can't, because they will have no jobs thus no money) it won't help them. That's why I'm saying such a system won't happen for the simple fact that it doesn't work at all, for anyone. Not even the 1%.

Regardless of your manufacturing robots, they don't just produce money. They manufacture goods that have to be bought for anyone to profit from it. And for that, consumers need to have money. Since there are no jobs to have, the money will have to come from elsewhere, ie. a sort of basic income/socialism-ish/communism-ish society.



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palou on 23 November 2016
OdinHades said:
Prepare for a new world order with russia and china as our new leaders. 

Preventing that was pretty much the TPPs main objective, along with the rest of 4 large agreements that were being made. It completely isolated BRICS, which most definately would have forced some sort of compliance.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Rab on 23 November 2016
Teeqoz said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Not if those machines would be in the hands of the few, keeping most profits to themselves. A base income could be a good idea, but not at the cost of social programs.

I'm saying that it simply won't benefit the few that own those machines if there are literally zero consumers because no one have jobs. In that case, you can manufacture as much as you like, but if no one buys anything (which they can't, because they will have no jobs thus no money) it won't help them. That's why I'm saying such a system won't happen for the simple fact that it doesn't work at all, for anyone. Not even the 1%.

Regardless of your manufacturing robots, they don't just produce money. They manufacture goods that have to be bought for anyone to profit from it. And for that, consumers need to have money. Since there are no jobs to have, the money will have to come from elsewhere, ie. a sort of basic income/socialism-ish/communism-ish society.

^ This, capitalism as we know it will die a slow death with the "automation of everything", but without customers, some form of Socialim will be required just to help people to be part of this new economic reality. At the rate of tech advancement, this could occur within 100 years  



LadyJasmine on 24 November 2016

Based on the empty promises of past trade deals, I think all future trade deals must take a more 'human' calculation to be passed.