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Forums - Politics - So, TPP is not going to happen.

 

Is getting rid of the TPP good?

Yes 81 68.07%
 
No 19 15.97%
 
Meh... 3 2.52%
 
Don't know enough to form a concise opinion 16 13.45%
 
Total:119

I probably read about 10 articles on similar trade deals. I have no idea if they are good or bad. If they actually hurt or help the common people. It seemed to me that Americans would be getting the long end of the stick with TTP, because manufacturing jobs aren't returning either way so you might as well import cheaper products



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China is celebrating, so it must be Good, right?



Anything that puts globalization to an hault is good.
Anything that makes George Soros angry is good for mankind.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

WagnerPaiva said:
Anything that puts globalization to an hault is good.
Anything that makes George Soros angry is good for mankind.

this



WagnerPaiva said:
Anything that puts globalization to an hault is good.
Anything that makes George Soros angry is good for mankind.

What's wrong with globalization? And what exactly has George Soros done that makes him bad? (note: I don't actually know much concerning the second question, so I'm genuinely asking for an explication. I'm all for globalization, though, so that's more an invitation for debate.)



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I know for one thing if Hillary got elected, TPP would have sailed through.



sethnintendo said:
WolfpackN64 said:

And how do they help people in average? Dissapearing jobs help people much?

Helps people in other countries.  They could pay an average worker here about 10-30 dollars a hour for a job they do but if they go to Mexico then they can pay them 2-5 dollars a hour for the same job. 

As for helping USA manufacturing jobs?  The only thing they are trying to do now is go more automation and have a few people instead of a lot of people on a line.  Have a couple of operators if any and a few technicians and engineers to look after the machines.

It not a one way street it also opens up markets for american exports, like it or not trade is  multi faceted and there will be winners and losers , I feel the biggest problem is the wests addiction to low cost imported products . My late father was an advocate of buy local employ local whenever  you can, but despite different campaigns over the years like buy products with the Australian made logo (thats where I'm from) ,and people saying they overwhelmingly support such endevours nothings  changed in fact until it was changed by law . products had made in Australia printed on the outside. only for it to turn out that the product wasn't and get away with it by saying we didn't lie the made in Australia  was refering to the plastic wrap packet being Australian made.

This isn't a new problem, Bob Dylan was singing about the demise of Steel jobs more than fifty years ago with the lines" the Eastern buyers say our ore ain't worth digging, down in  south america the miners work for all most nothing". Why because that's how capitalism works , cutting down on wages is an easy way to improve the bottom line,and adds to your competiveness, also when terms like made in Tawain or made in Japan no longer equate to cheap mass produced goods , you over time move on to greener pastures comforted by the knowledge that these countries are now  consumers.

I feel the cat can't be put into the bag, I don't want protectionism nor do I want what my country Australia  has done and that is cut our restrictions without  getting the same back and excuse it by saying we are taking the lead. you need strong leaders who don't just focus on imports but look at the export side and weigh up the benefits , put a stop to unfair subsidies  and have strong anti dumping laws and instead of enacting an all encompassing FTA  choose good like for like areas where the playing field is near equal hammer these out and get them up and running see how they are going then move on down the line.



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I'm not against a free trade agreement with the USA, but I'm very much against one that has been negotiated in closed sessions and gives a lot of power to companies.



Lafiel said:

I'm not against a free trade agreement with the USA, but I'm very much against one that has been negotiated in closed sessions and gives a lot of power to companies.

That the TPP gives alot of power to companies is a bit of a misconception. Companies cannot sue a state for favoring citizens over the company. Only if favoritism is shown between companies. Countries can still apply any health regulation/ job security/ environnemental protection law that they want to, they just can't apply the regulations to foreign corporations while allowing their own companys to ignore them.

This isn't new either, trade courts already exist, and companies have already tried (and failed, if the decision was impartial; Marlboro owner Philip Morris had to pay up for an attempt to repeal anti-smoking laws in Uruguay, for example) to sue countries over protectionnist laws. 

It isn't new, either, that an agreement is secret; they pretty much all are, for good reason. Look at original post for that.



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palou said:
WagnerPaiva said:
Anything that puts globalization to an hault is good.
Anything that makes George Soros angry is good for mankind.

What's wrong with globalization? And what exactly has George Soros done that makes him bad? (note: I don't actually know much concerning the second question, so I'm genuinely asking for an explication. I'm all for globalization, though, so that's more an invitation for debate.)

Sure, to understand fully how evil and harmful globalization is, I refer you to zygmunt bauman  book Globalization the human consequence, which can be read in samples here:

http://samples.sainsburysebooks.co.uk/9780745674384_sample_412093.pdf

I can also provide you a full pdf and you can fin videos of Bauman himself talking about it.

To understand what it is the globalized world the elite wants, reads THE END OF HISTORY, from Francis Fukuyama.

I will give you the highlights: the ultimate goal is no borders, no sovereignty and an homogenized culture all over the world.

Why is this bad? First, people are different, different foods, habits, creeds, culture, this is a good thing.

Belonging to a place, haveing a language, a nationality, these are all part of what make us human.

The neverending conflicts of Afrika, for example, come from a artificial divide of the continent, destroying the natural cultural tribal borders they had and disrespecting their culture.

What we need is strong nations, with strong sense of culture and understanding that they are not the same as the other nations, but all respecting and living in peace with each other.

A global world aims to a system where a supernational autorithy has power over the nations, and this can easily not have this particular nation best interest in mind.

It is a global empire disguised as a good thing.

George Soros is the main puppeter in this plan, he uses rise and fall of nations to get richer and often manufacter such rises and falls. He finance racial wars (Black Live Matters), gender wars and all the manifestations of the Left all around the world. He also lobbies for the end of all religions and finance groups that work in this objective.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.