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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - A disruptive path to VR for Nintendo

Frogger on 23 October 2016
SvennoJ said:

The gamepad streams 854x480 at 60 fps = 562 mbps. WiiU Gamepad uses chroma subsampling and h.264 compression to bring it down to about 30 mbps, which adds lag.

PSVR streames 1920x1080 at 120 fps = 5.56 gbps. No color reduction since pixels are in your face, no compression since vr is very lag sensitive.

Point made lol thanks.

But I definitely don't see VR ever being mainstream with wires. If the tech isn't there yet, I don't think that VR will be either.



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Pyro as Bill on 23 October 2016
spemanig said:
SvennoJ said:

The gamepad streams 854x480 at 60 fps = 562 mbps. WiiU Gamepad uses chroma subsampling and h.264 compression to bring it down to about 30 mbps, which adds lag.

PSVR streames 1920x1080 at 120 fps = 5.56 gbps. No color reduction since pixels are in your face, no compression since vr is very lag sensitive.

Point made lol thanks.

But I definitely don't see VR ever being mainstream with wires. If the tech isn't there yet, I don't think that VR will be either.

What if the wires are coming out of a handheld device instead of the console next to the TV?



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

JRPGfan on 23 October 2016
spemanig said:
SvennoJ said:

The gamepad streams 854x480 at 60 fps = 562 mbps. WiiU Gamepad uses chroma subsampling and h.264 compression to bring it down to about 30 mbps, which adds lag.

PSVR streames 1920x1080 at 120 fps = 5.56 gbps. No color reduction since pixels are in your face, no compression since vr is very lag sensitive.

Point made lol thanks.

But I definitely don't see VR ever being mainstream with wires. If the tech isn't there yet, I don't think that VR will be either.

Thats like saying Headphones will never catch on! those damn wires!

VR isnt really ment for you to be running around in your appartment / house with a set on, and waveing your arms around with motion controllers.

I see it more as a sit down with helmet on, and use a normal controller(dual shock) and enjoy the game.

For that the wires arnt a issue at all.



Pyro as Bill on 23 October 2016
SvennoJ said:
Pyro as Bill said:

Even 8K per eye will not deliver ‘VR perfection’

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/09/virtual-perfection-why-8k-resolution-per-eye-isnt-enough-for-perfect-vr/

A system that can deliver 16K (8K per eye), at 60 fps, with realistic graphics seems a long way away. Whereas for ‘pirate-VR’ combining 2 or even 4 NS systems to provide the GPU power seems much more achievable.

It might be closer than you think. With Samsungs new 5" 11K screen (2018) plus eye tracking and foveated rendering (Fove) it could be possible in 2020.
5.5k per eye corresponds to the recommended sitting distance for 1080p tv. It will look as good as 1080p looks now, except over 100 degree fov instead of 35 degrees, sitting at 1.38x diagonal screen size. Actually the recommded seating for 1080p is 1.63x diagonal screen size with 30 degree fov, however these headsets also have higher density of pixels towards the center. I expect 5.5k per eye to be a very close match to 1080p quality at smpte standards. (Ofcourse it can be better otherwise we would not have 4K tv now)

Plus the higher the resolution of the screens the bigger the advantages of foveated rendering become. Fove already expects a 5x to 6x savings on their 2560x1440 headset in GPU requirements.


Anyway strapping 1 or more NS systems to your face, if it can't be perfects anyway, doesn't seem like a good alternative.

I'm sure high K screens are coming but what about the GPU required to power them?

The NS wouldnt be on your face. It would be in your hand with a wire into the headset.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

Normchacho on 23 October 2016

The weight would be immense and it would be terribly imbalanced.



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I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

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SvennoJ on 23 October 2016
Pyro as Bill said:
SvennoJ said:

It might be closer than you think. With Samsungs new 5" 11K screen (2018) plus eye tracking and foveated rendering (Fove) it could be possible in 2020.
5.5k per eye corresponds to the recommended sitting distance for 1080p tv. It will look as good as 1080p looks now, except over 100 degree fov instead of 35 degrees, sitting at 1.38x diagonal screen size. Actually the recommded seating for 1080p is 1.63x diagonal screen size with 30 degree fov, however these headsets also have higher density of pixels towards the center. I expect 5.5k per eye to be a very close match to 1080p quality at smpte standards. (Ofcourse it can be better otherwise we would not have 4K tv now)

Plus the higher the resolution of the screens the bigger the advantages of foveated rendering become. Fove already expects a 5x to 6x savings on their 2560x1440 headset in GPU requirements.


Anyway strapping 1 or more NS systems to your face, if it can't be perfects anyway, doesn't seem like a good alternative.

I'm sure high K screens are coming but what about the GPU required to power them?

The NS wouldnt be on your face. It would be in your hand with a wire into the headset.

That's where eye tracking comes in. You only see sharp in 2 degrees of your fov. Even with 8K per eye over 100 fov, only 160x160 needs to be rendered at full resolution. At a safety margin on 10 degrees, 800x800 per eye at full res, then quickly reduce resolution to as little as 1/16th at the corners. Distributed checkerboad rendering would be ideal for this. Reduce the density of the rendered samples outward.

ps4 pro already gets some support to reduce GPU load by rendering the corners at lower resolution. Currently the whole image is rendered at the same resolution, yet due to the warping effect (less physical pixels in view towards the edges) a lot of that is thrown away. With eye tracking that rendering at different resolutions can be further optimized to make dual 8K VR less demanding than tv display 4K30.



Hynad on 23 October 2016
padib said:
Hynad said:
The only thing these kind of threads manage to do for me is make me sigh.

They're the point of the forum. Discuss sales and business choices of game companies.

Did you read the OP? ¬_¬



Frogger on 23 October 2016
JRPGfan said:

Thats like saying Headphones will never catch on! those damn wires!

VR isnt really ment for you to be running around in your appartment / house with a set on, and waveing your arms around with motion controllers.

I see it more as a sit down with helmet on, and use a normal controller(dual shock) and enjoy the game.

For that the wires arnt a issue at all.

Headphones are wired to wireless products. It's not the same thing. If headphones were only usable on radios and TVs, no one would buy them.



JRPGfan on 23 October 2016
spemanig said:
JRPGfan said:

Thats like saying Headphones will never catch on! those damn wires!

VR isnt really ment for you to be running around in your appartment / house with a set on, and waveing your arms around with motion controllers.

I see it more as a sit down with helmet on, and use a normal controller(dual shock) and enjoy the game.

For that the wires arnt a issue at all.

Headphones are wired to wireless products. It's not the same thing. If headphones were only usable on radios and TVs, no one would buy them.

Maybe one day mobile phones will be strong enough for VR.

But until then its only "radios and tvs" (console & pc).

Its a new medium, there was a time when people probably thought the radio would never catch on, or the tv for that matter.

Wires or not, isnt going to be what makes or breaks it.



KLAMarine on 23 October 2016

I want Nintendo to stay away from VR. I don't feel the tech is there yet.