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Forums - General - If you had enough evidence to know that God is real, would you love Him or hate Him or what?

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If God was real, would you love and worship?

Yes, I would love and worship Him. 49 41.53%
 
No. And would not. 69 58.47%
 
Total:118
Eagle367 said:
Final-Fan said:

I don't speak for everyone, but I think most people would agree with some if not all of the following:  Intellectually, they feel that the good parts outweigh the bad parts.  Even if there is more bad than good in their life, they may still feel that experiencing the good is worth the pain.  And aside from the intellectual reasons, we as human beings have an ingrained aversion to death.  Our instinct is very strongly telling us to not die.  (If you know anything about evolution, you can see how this would be an evolutionary advantage.)  Unfortunately, this can sometimes cause irrational and even counterproductive reactions, but it's still a strong motivation. 

I hear most people say that time flies fast. But for me, its so damn slow that days feel like weeks even if I am busy or completely free. I am 19 years old and I feel like I have lived enough and looking at the state and mentality of people just makes me feel angry and the ignorance makes me feel annoyed and I am left to wonder why the hell would people want to live to 70 let alone trying to become immortal through science. If at any time I start to think like there is no God or everything is predetermined, I'll just go batshit crazy cause everything will be pointless. If it's just predetermined by God then its just a bad joke and everything I do is predetermined anyway and if there is no God then why even live. It's not like this world is heaven or anything. 

I certainly don't go through life in a state of bliss myself, but I do enjoy some of it, and if it's this or nothing I'll take this.  Does that answer the question of "why even live if there is no God?" or were you looking for something else?



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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'nuff said



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

setsunatenshi said:
Eagle367 said:

I actually am not that interested in this life. I don't want to live long. That aside, suicide is forbidden and you have to seek treatment for all and every problem at least according to my religion. There is a difference between being superior to things and creating them. It's like you killing people in GTA because technically they are not what you call living beings.  But if some way, the characters in game have feelings, you'd still kill them regardless. It's like a game creator who does whatever he wants to his creations in game. That's the closest example to give, not because of superiority, but because to insignificance. Even if characters in game have feelings, the game creator will do whatever the hell he wants with them because he created them and in the end can create more. If God exists, then humans and all His creations are insignificant and if that God is immortal and everlasting, then he probably has created countless universes with countless creations and has no boundary in time as time is just a perception, so He can see everything happening at the same time. Why then would He care about nobodies like humans. Perhaps He is just messing with us and created us for fun or perhaps He just really wants us to follow Him or perhaps He created us, but just observes us and doesn't care what happens. In the end that dog is signifacnt to you, since He is a part of your world, galaxy and universe, while you and everyone else and the universe or even the multiverse, if it exists is insignificant to God since its inconsequential to Him. He can start from scratch create another universe and do whatever we can't even comprehend.

Also going back to the surviving part, many people fought for their country or religion, not the terrorists, and died on the battlefield since they believe it'll grant them heaven. We in our religion don't automatically have all our sins forgiven like the Christians so we are responsible for each and every deed we do. Killing ourselves is like leaving a blank test so you fail regardless. Life is a test for us so we have to strive to be better humans every day and make the difficult, but right calls, or at least try to, that's why we don't just do whatever we want like alcohol, drugs, random sex, etc. Those who do those things are just not good practitioners and as you said, care too much about this world. We are taught to ponder over death as much as we can to remind ourselves of the limits of this world and this life is our only chance to  pass this test. If we stop thinking about death, then we'll get too involved in this world and forget our responsibilties. But in the end only death can confirm whether I am right, or you are right or some other people and in the end I can't change your mind and you can't change mine, so live your life and remember death, as you might not believe in the afterlife but you do believe in being a good human being.

P.S: Wy the hell do people want more of this stupid life? If you can tell me then reply. And I am not suicidal in any way or form, just baffled by the masses.

Dude that is some sad / insane way of thinking. I hope you get some form of help to deal with those feelings. It's another fine example of what religion does to people, while some still pretend religion to be harmless.

 

Yeah let's just agree to disagree and i'll consider myself lucky I find plenty of enjoyment all over. 

Yeah you are so sane and intellectual and the way I think is due to religion. Whatever it takes to bash against religion I guess. But accept the fact as reality that if there is a Supreme Being then that Being will be more powerful then how i described Him to be. And the way I view life and myself is purely mine. Religion does not take away my individuality so get over yourself



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
setsunatenshi said:

Dude that is some sad / insane way of thinking. I hope you get some form of help to deal with those feelings. It's another fine example of what religion does to people, while some still pretend religion to be harmless.

Yeah let's just agree to disagree and i'll consider myself lucky I find plenty of enjoyment all over. 

Yeah you are so sane and intellectual and the way I think is due to religion. Whatever it takes to bash against religion I guess. But accept the fact as reality that if there is a Supreme Being then that Being will be more powerful then how i described Him to be. And the way I view life and myself is purely mine. Religion does not take away my individuality so get over yourself

It seems to me that religion is a crutch that can help people through hard times, but at the same time it can make them dependent on it.  So they feel that there is no point to life if the religion is not true.  Look at the original 12 steps of Alcoholics anonymous: 

  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

So it can help, but at the same time God is then the only thing (in their mind) keeping them from alcoholism, so doubting God would carry the danger of undermining their ability to stay sober. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
Eagle367 said:

Yeah you are so sane and intellectual and the way I think is due to religion. Whatever it takes to bash against religion I guess. But accept the fact as reality that if there is a Supreme Being then that Being will be more powerful then how i described Him to be. And the way I view life and myself is purely mine. Religion does not take away my individuality so get over yourself

It seems to me that religion is a crutch that can help people through hard times, but at the same time it can make them dependent on it.  So they feel that there is no point to life if the religion is not true.  Look at the original 12 steps of Alcoholics anonymous: 

  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

So it can help, but at the same time God is then the only thing (in their mind) keeping them from alcoholism, so doubting God would carry the danger of undermining their ability to stay sober. 

You are eager to pin everything on religion instead of individual thinking. First of all, I am no alcoholic second if I was in hard times, you could talk but my life has been much better then most people almost too good to be true. If I wanted to love this world, I have every reason to love it and I am NOT suicidal but I am indifferent to the world. Your entire argument falls apart since none of your stupid forceful assertions and forcefl correlations apply to me in any way, form or incarnation. Also Stop being self righteous!



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

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Eagle367 said:
Final-Fan said:

It seems to me that religion is a crutch that can help people through hard times, but at the same time it can make them dependent on it.  So they feel that there is no point to life if the religion is not true.  Look at the original 12 steps of Alcoholics anonymous: 

  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

So it can help, but at the same time God is then the only thing (in their mind) keeping them from alcoholism, so doubting God would carry the danger of undermining their ability to stay sober. 

You are eager to pin everything on religion instead of individual thinking. First of all, I am no alcoholic second if I was in hard times, you could talk but my life has been much better then most people almost too good to be true. If I wanted to love this world, I have every reason to love it and I am NOT suicidal but I am indifferent to the world. Your entire argument falls apart since none of your stupid forceful assertions and forcefl correlations apply to me in any way, form or incarnation. Also Stop being self righteous!

AA was just an example.  I thought that was clear.  You're overreacting. 

Let me clarify my original intent:  I took your assertion "religion does not take away my individuality" as more than just as a personal claim only applying to you yourself.  I thought you meant it more broadly, as "religion does not take away a person's individuality" with yourself as the case in point.  I spoke to this claim by bringing up the AA example, which seems to be to pretty clearly involve submitting their own willpower to their conception of God.  I definitely did not mean that you were an alcoholic or had similar problems.  If you meant your statement as purely personal and not speaking for religion in general or anyone else's religion than your own personal and solely individual experience, then since I don't know you outside of these few posts there's not much I can say on that subject.  The degree to which religion reduces a person's independence varies greatly by the religion and by the individual.  Many cults, for example, severely reduce people's individuality to weld them into the cult more firmly. 

In what way did you think I was being "self-righteous"?  And what do you mean by "pin everything on religion"? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
Eagle367 said:

You are eager to pin everything on religion instead of individual thinking. First of all, I am no alcoholic second if I was in hard times, you could talk but my life has been much better then most people almost too good to be true. If I wanted to love this world, I have every reason to love it and I am NOT suicidal but I am indifferent to the world. Your entire argument falls apart since none of your stupid forceful assertions and forcefl correlations apply to me in any way, form or incarnation. Also Stop being self righteous!

AA was just an example.  I thought that was clear.  You're overreacting. 

Let me clarify my original intent:  I took your assertion "religion does not take away my individuality" as more than just as a personal claim only applying to you yourself.  I thought you meant it more broadly, as "religion does not take away a person's individuality" with yourself as the case in point.  I spoke to this claim by bringing up the AA example, which seems to be to pretty clearly involve submitting their own willpower to their conception of God.  I definitely did not mean that you were an alcoholic or had similar problems.  If you meant your statement as purely personal and not speaking for religion in general or anyone else's religion than your own personal and solely individual experience, then since I don't know you outside of these few posts there's not much I can say on that subject.  The degree to which religion reduces a person's independence varies greatly by the religion and by the individual.  Many cults, for example, severely reduce people's individuality to weld them into the cult more firmly. 

In what way did you think I was being "self-righteous"?  And what do you mean by "pin everything on religion"? 

Self-righteous as in believing you are so intelligent and always right. Like you have a higher intellect than religious people. "Pin everything on religion" is self explanatory. you blame war terrorism stupidity wierd rituals personal thinking and evaluations decisions of individuals all on religion. What else is there to say



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
Final-Fan said:

AA was just an example.  I thought that was clear.  You're overreacting. 

Let me clarify my original intent:  I took your assertion "religion does not take away my individuality" as more than just as a personal claim only applying to you yourself.  I thought you meant it more broadly, as "religion does not take away a person's individuality" with yourself as the case in point.  I spoke to this claim by bringing up the AA example, which seems to be to pretty clearly involve submitting their own willpower to their conception of God.  I definitely did not mean that you were an alcoholic or had similar problems.  If you meant your statement as purely personal and not speaking for religion in general or anyone else's religion than your own personal and solely individual experience, then since I don't know you outside of these few posts there's not much I can say on that subject.  The degree to which religion reduces a person's independence varies greatly by the religion and by the individual.  Many cults, for example, severely reduce people's individuality to weld them into the cult more firmly. 

In what way did you think I was being "self-righteous"?  And what do you mean by "pin everything on religion"? 

Self-righteous as in believing you are so intelligent and always right. Like you have a higher intellect than religious people. "Pin everything on religion" is self explanatory. you blame war terrorism stupidity wierd rituals personal thinking and evaluations decisions of individuals all on religion. What else is there to say

What else is there to say?  That you are wrong.  That you are making an assumption about my views based on the fact that I am disagreeing with you, therefore I am a militant atheist who thinks religion is the cause of all evil in the world, or whatever the hell it is you think.  Nothing in this thread could possibly lead you to rationally conclude that I blame war on religion.  I defy you to show otherwise.  (You may look anywhere on these forums, not just this thread, for the purpose of showing the basis for your conclusion that I think war is usually caused by religion.)

I think I'm right?  Well, yes, I do.  So do you.  And if it turns out I'm wrong, then I change my mind and then I'm also right.  Do you? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
Eagle367 said:

Self-righteous as in believing you are so intelligent and always right. Like you have a higher intellect than religious people. "Pin everything on religion" is self explanatory. you blame war terrorism stupidity wierd rituals personal thinking and evaluations decisions of individuals all on religion. What else is there to say

What else is there to say?  That you are wrong.  That you are making an assumption about my views based on the fact that I am disagreeing with you, therefore I am a militant atheist who thinks religion is the cause of all evil in the world, or whatever the hell it is you think.  Nothing in this thread could possibly lead you to rationally conclude that I blame war on religion.  I defy you to show otherwise.  (You may look anywhere on these forums, not just this thread, for the purpose of showing the basis for your conclusion that I think war is usually caused by religion.)

I think I'm right?  Well, yes, I do.  So do you.  And if it turns out I'm wrong, then I change my mind and then I'm also right.  Do you? 

I am not that intelligent and I know it so I try to learn. Granted the war part was an over exaggeration but your posts in this thread alone show that you believe a lot of things are religion's fault and you believed them arrogantly so there is a rational way to deduce that which I deduced. Deductions aside I don't blame religion or circumstances for what people do because evil is a part of us just like good and in the same situations and circumstances people behave differently this just shows that its the people's fault not their ideology not their beliefs or circumstances but the people themselves. I am not thatthat saint of a person but I have not been tested in a difficult situation nor I presume have you( because you don't seem to have that many problems otherwise a discussion on a gaming site would be the least of your worries) but a lot of people in difficult situations have risen above their evil and hate and a lot have fell flat even in comfortable situations so regardless of if, who or what God is, we were made this way one way or the other and no physical thing in my opinion can change that. 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
Final-Fan said:

What else is there to say?  That you are wrong.  That you are making an assumption about my views based on the fact that I am disagreeing with you, therefore I am a militant atheist who thinks religion is the cause of all evil in the world, or whatever the hell it is you think.  Nothing in this thread could possibly lead you to rationally conclude that I blame war on religion.  I defy you to show otherwise.  (You may look anywhere on these forums, not just this thread, for the purpose of showing the basis for your conclusion that I think war is usually caused by religion.)

I think I'm right?  Well, yes, I do.  So do you.  And if it turns out I'm wrong, then I change my mind and then I'm also right.  Do you? 

I am not that intelligent and I know it so I try to learn. Granted the war part was an over exaggeration but your posts in this thread alone show that you believe a lot of things are religion's fault and you believed them arrogantly so there is a rational way to deduce that which I deduced. Deductions aside I don't blame religion or circumstances for what people do because evil is a part of us just like good and in the same situations and circumstances people behave differently this just shows that its the people's fault not their ideology not their beliefs or circumstances but the people themselves. I am not thatthat saint of a person but I have not been tested in a difficult situation nor I presume have you( because you don't seem to have that many problems otherwise a discussion on a gaming site would be the least of your worries) but a lot of people in difficult situations have risen above their evil and hate and a lot have fell flat even in comfortable situations so regardless of if, who or what God is, we were made this way one way or the other and no physical thing in my opinion can change that. 

So, what do you think that I think is religion's fault, and why do you think that I am arrogant in thinking so?  Here's my perspective on your list: 

1.  War - you already admitted you made this up completely
2.  Terrorism - I don't recall speaking of terrorism and religion in this thread, and for the record I don't think "religion" is to blame, per se
3.  Stupidity - No. 
4.  Weird rituals - well, I will cop to this one, but religion is far from the only cause of people making up weird rituals.  Don't know why I would be arrogant to think that religion sometimes leads to rituals that to someone else may appear strange or pointless (unless the religious significance is explained to them).  I think evidence backs this up
5.  Personal thinking - I guess you mean that I think religion controls your thoughts?  No.  But any indoctrination, religious or not, of a child growing up can lead them to be sorely mistaken about the world if what they have been taught contradicts all evidence.  Example:  Jesus and dinosaurs lived at the same time; dinosaurs were alive as recently as human recorded history.  If you also believe this, well, my argument just got harder but I stand by it
6.  "Evaluations decisions" or individuals - Obviously a person's beliefs on what is true influence their decision making, religious or not.  I don't know what is arrogant about saying this. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!