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Forums - Gaming - Gaming as fictitious as Religion?

JWeinCom said:
WagnerPaiva said:

These are the consequences of deciding atheism is true, if atheism is true, there is no eternity. Your decision is of course the most rational one for you, there is no doubt about that. If it was different, you would be not a atheist.

Of course you are atheist because you think the other options are not plausible, it is like this in all matters of life.

Eternal life exists or doesn't exist.  My opinion doesn't have any impact on that.

Of course. When one is a atheist he of course believes that there is no eternal life and, therefore, after death nothing remains. He also believes that no one created the Universe.

When one believes in the eternal life, he of course has some kind of theistic or supernatural world view.

Either way, neither belieth shapes the universe, it is what it is. 

If the theist is wrong, he will be a fool after death, but he will not know it.

If the atheist is wrong, he will be a fool after death, and he will know it.

Either way, it is a hard step to take and I respect either decisions one takes. But, of course, as a christian, I wish everyone believe and where saved.

Saved from what? A atheist would say "saved from nothing" and, by this world view, he would be correct. But you know my beliefs.

Fascinating subject, but I do disagree when you guys say it is easy to decide. I think it is a hard decision either way. 

Edit: I always was fascinated by the famous atheist Christopher Hitchens, as he stated that even if God existed he would not bow to Him, cause he hates Him and thinks this hipothetic God is not worthy of it.

I never had a chance to ask that to other atheists "What would you do if God was real, would you worship Him?" 

But I was always mermerized by the boldness of Hitchens answer. This is not a answer one give in lightness, and he was brave enough to not dodge the question either. It would be very easy to say "I will not answer cause I KNOW there is no god"



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

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WagnerPaiva said:
JWeinCom said:

Eternal life exists or doesn't exist.  My opinion doesn't have any impact on that.

Of course. When one is a atheist he of course believes that there is no eternal life and, therefore, after death nothing remains. He also believes that no one created the Universe.

When one believes in the eternal life, he of course has some kind of theistic or supernatural world view.

Either way, neither belieth shapes the universe, it is what it is. 

If the theist is wrong, he will be a fool after death, but he will not know it.

If the atheist is wrong, he will be a fool after death, and he will know it.

Either way, it is a hard step to take and I respect either decisions one takes. But, of course, as a christian, I wish everyone believe and where saved.

Saved from what? A atheist would say "saved from nothing" and, by this world view, he would be correct. But you know my beliefs.

Fascinating subject, but I do disagree when you guys say it is easy to decide. I think it is a hard decision either way. 

Edit: I always was fascinated by the famous atheist Christopher Hitchens, as he stated that even if God existed he would not bow to Him, cause he hates Him and thinks this hipothetic God is not worthy of it.

I never had a chance to ask that to other atheists "What would you do if God was real, would you worship Him?" 

But I was always mermerized by the boldness of Hitchens answer. This is not a answer one give in lightness, and he was brave enough to not dodge the question either. It would be very easy to say "I will not answer cause I KNOW there is no god"

To ask again, did you decide that you were going to believe in god and Jesus?  If you wanted to, could you believe otherwise?  

To me, it's simply a fact, the way that 1+1=2.  I couldn't convince myself that christianity is true any more than I can convince myself that 1+1=3.  I would assume your belief in christianity is the same, but maybe it's different.  

Keep in mind that I was never really taught to believe in any of this.   I imagine it might be like a gay person coming out of the closet.  If you were raised to believe that being gay was morally wrong, or that there are negative consequences to it, you might try to deny that you're gay.   You still are gay, but you might try to convince yourself otherwise.  Likewise, if you were raised to believe atheism was immoral or that there were negative consequences to not believing, you may be in denial about atheism.  You have no control over whether or not you actually believe in it, but you may try to lie to yourself, or go along with the rituals of religion without really believing in them.

If god was real would I worship him?  It depends.  I assume that you mean god as he is described in the bible.  In that case, yes I would worship him.  I would worship him in the same way that North Koreans worship Kim Jong Un.  I agree with Hitchens that the character in the bible is not worthy or worship.  But, I guess I just don't have the fortitude of Hitchens.  If there was someone who was had the power to torture me for all eternity, I'd probably do whatever they said.  My safety is more important to me than my pride.



JWeinCom said:

To ask again, did you decide that you were going to believe in god and Jesus?  If you wanted to, could you believe otherwise?  

To me, it's simply a fact, the way that 1+1=2.  I couldn't convince myself that christianity is true any more than I can convince myself that 1+1=3.  I would assume your belief in christianity is the same, but maybe it's different.  

Keep in mind that I was never really taught to believe in any of this.   I imagine it might be like a gay person coming out of the closet.  If you were raised to believe that being gay was morally wrong, or that there are negative consequences to it, you might try to deny that you're gay.   You still are gay, but you might try to convince yourself otherwise.  Likewise, if you were raised to believe atheism was immoral or that there were negative consequences to not believing, you may be in denial about atheism.  You have no control over whether or not you actually believe in it, but you may try to lie to yourself, or go along with the rituals of religion without really believing in them.

If god was real would I worship him?  It depends.  I assume that you mean god as he is described in the bible.  In that case, yes I would worship him.  I would worship him in the same way that North Koreans worship Kim Jong Un.  I agree with Hitchens that the character in the bible is not worthy or worship.  But, I guess I just don't have the fortitude of Hitchens.  If there was someone who was had the power to torture me for all eternity, I'd probably do whatever they said.  My safety is more important to me than my pride.

Yes, yes, I was a atheist till 30 years old, but neve though lightly of it, always pondered about these things.

I became a christian because I had cold hard evidence of supernatural evil, continuous, and then cold hard evidence of being saved from it. I will not get in details. But I think any kind of evidence can be considered as not enough, so it was a decision.

At one time we have to look at the evidence and say "it is enough evidence for me, I made my mind, God exists/do not exist".

At some point we become convinced in one way or another. To me it was a decision, and, of course, as all born again christians, I started to fell a supernatural gigantic love for God and Jesus Christ, like a son love his Father.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

WagnerPaiva said:
JWeinCom said:

To ask again, did you decide that you were going to believe in god and Jesus?  If you wanted to, could you believe otherwise?  

To me, it's simply a fact, the way that 1+1=2.  I couldn't convince myself that christianity is true any more than I can convince myself that 1+1=3.  I would assume your belief in christianity is the same, but maybe it's different.  

Keep in mind that I was never really taught to believe in any of this.   I imagine it might be like a gay person coming out of the closet.  If you were raised to believe that being gay was morally wrong, or that there are negative consequences to it, you might try to deny that you're gay.   You still are gay, but you might try to convince yourself otherwise.  Likewise, if you were raised to believe atheism was immoral or that there were negative consequences to not believing, you may be in denial about atheism.  You have no control over whether or not you actually believe in it, but you may try to lie to yourself, or go along with the rituals of religion without really believing in them.

If god was real would I worship him?  It depends.  I assume that you mean god as he is described in the bible.  In that case, yes I would worship him.  I would worship him in the same way that North Koreans worship Kim Jong Un.  I agree with Hitchens that the character in the bible is not worthy or worship.  But, I guess I just don't have the fortitude of Hitchens.  If there was someone who was had the power to torture me for all eternity, I'd probably do whatever they said.  My safety is more important to me than my pride.

Yes, yes, I was a atheist till 30 years old, but neve though lightly of it, always pondered about these things.

I became a christian because I had cold hard evidence of supernatural evil, continuous, and then cold hard evidence of being saved from it. I will not get in details. But I think any kind of evidence can be considered as not enough, so it was a decision.

At one time we have to look at the evidence and say "it is enough evidence for me, I made my mind, God exists/do not exist".

At some point we become convinced in one way or another. To me it was a decision, and, of course, as all born again christians, I started to fell a supernatural gigantic love for God and Jesus Christ, like a son love his Father.

Then I guess your mind works differently than mine.  Some issues are up for debate and interpretation, but if there is hard evidene for something, belief is automatic.



JWeinCom said:

Then I guess your mind works differently than mine.  Some issues are up for debate and interpretation, but if there is hard evidene for something, belief is automatic.

Almost automatic at the least, I agree.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

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WagnerPaiva said:
JWeinCom said:

Then I guess your mind works differently than mine.  Some issues are up for debate and interpretation, but if there is hard evidene for something, belief is automatic.

Almost automatic at the least, I agree.

If it's almost automatic, then is it really a choice? 

I think the issue I have is that choice involves preference.  I don't think believing or not believing in god is a preference.  I would prefer to believe I can live forever, but even if I would prefer that, I literally can't.  



JWeinCom said:
WagnerPaiva said:

Almost automatic at the least, I agree.

If it's almost automatic, then is it really a choice? 

I think the issue I have is that choice involves preference.  I don't think believing or not believing in god is a preference.  I would prefer to believe I can live forever, but even if I would prefer that, I literally can't.  

I think it still is a choice, yes.

Even in face of strong evidence, a decision remains to be made. It is like this in politycs also. I can show you hard evidence that some person is a crook, but you have to decide if that matters or not when you vote.

In the end, believing or not is something we decide alone, andI still think it is the most important decision a human being takes, one way or another.

Even men of faith have to decide, because religion is hard, it is a journey. Sometimes no amount of evidence is strong enough.

And certainly this work the other way to, if you show me tons of evidence of a non-theistic universe, I still would had to decide.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

spurgeonryan said:
Another anti-religion thread made for almost no reason. Parents are to blame for kids, and the kids themselves.

On the other side of the spectrum I blame television, books, news, etc for how kids grow up.

Gaming absolutely is a problem. Kids see how realistic games are, especially these days. How do they make that decision?

I made the thread. I'm not religious but am far from anti-religious and made this thread to spur discourse that may amke me and other think about things differently. I can only speak for myself but I did end up thinking about things differently. Personally I tried to tie this into the idolatry found within gaming and entertainment in general these days so that the topic could be more relevant in this community.

Can't agree at all with your first sentence.

As for your other comments they seem very relevant. I'd agree that gaming's realism is just too enticing not to become enamored by it. And that realism isn't just graphical as has been discussed here. It's in everything; the fashion behind it, the memes, the musical remixes by fans, the fan theory, annual conferences, tv-show tie-ins, and of course the gaming itself, being tactilly in control through touch, or even through intuitive motion control. It's just so real.

That realness is what gaming and entertainment in general has that Religion seems to be unable to keep up with. The digital avatars, the "invisible" pokemon, the growing global community and brand. I'm in agreement with most in this three that gaming alone is just no on par with religion, but it's moving in a powerful direction forsure.