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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
HomokHarcos said:
Jumpin said:

Ha! They pulled the wool over everyone's eyes with the Lesnar vs Reigns match.
That blade was the most gruesome thing I've seen since Undertaker No Mercy 2002 or 2003 (forget).

This is the worst I've ever done on predictions. Like 3 out of 15.

 

Id rank them all now, but I am only on my phone and far too drunk. And there's daylight.

Surprising amount of colour this Wrestlemania considering the so-called no blood policy.

Eddie-JBL at Judgment Day 2004 is by far the worst blade job I can remember.

Yeah, there were some really bad ones, Roman definitely had the blood spurt going. I don’t remember them all.

Oh crap! I forgot about Ember Moon probably coming to RAW: Women’s title match # 2 at Wrestlemania should involve her, she’s really awesome. Maybe a triple threat.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 09 April 2018

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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I think to sum up the last 4 days.

Take the NXT event, and attach on the IC match, Asuka vs. Flair, and Rousey/Angle vs Triple H/Steph and you not only get the best Wrestlemania of all time, but it wouldn’t even be close.

And it’s not like this is even that far from the truth, all of those matches happened over the weekend in the WWE; it’s incidental that NXT occurred a day earlier with a different event branding.

Speaking of RAW and Smackdown, those two shows may have been largely story and announcement based, but holy crap! WWE has that “You never know what’s going to happen” feeling again that made the Attitude era so exciting... but with actual great wrestling skill almost all around those time.

 

My favourite moments of the night were Elias not being able to get heat, the crowd AGREEING with his insults. My favourite segment was Peyton Royce and Billie Kay coming out and beating down Charlotte only to have Carmella come out shrieking to start her Money in the Bank match! She was trying to get the refs to understand what Money in the Bank means (similar to earlier in the year, when she failed), and she won! I guess Charlotte’s heading to RAW next week. Anyway, that whole segment is one of those ones that would probably sound gross on paper, but worked out REALLY well. Also, Paige broke hearts with her retirement on RAW, and stood us right back up when she became Smackdown GM! Favourite match was Ember Moon’s debut even though it was just a spot match.

 

EDIT:

Even Jim Cornette, who is notoriously critical of WWE loved the Rousey match, calls it the best debut match he's ever seen and one of the best of all time:

Last edited by Jumpin - on 12 April 2018

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

OK, here's a question I have.

I'm aware of the Attitude era, when they used the WWF Attitude logo, and afterward came the whole "Get the F Out" thing, and then the WWE era when they began using the WWE Entertainment logo. When did people start to collectively start calling this the "Ruthless Aggression era?" despite the fact that WWE didn't have any such brand?
WWF Attitude December 1997 or March 1998 to May 2002 (The scratchy logo, without the Attitude, debuted in December 97 following the Vince McMahon's introduction of the Attitude era, but the "Attitude" name didn't appear in the logo until March 1998)
WWE Entertainment May 2002 to August 2014
WWE Network August 2014 to Present (although it launched in some places earlier in the year, unsure if the logo was used)

 

Many people now extend the Attitude era back to 1996, but realistically it is only due to some scattered Attitude era-like moments that occurred in 1996 and 1997 rather than actual branding; but this doesn't make a great deal of sense since there's a lot of Attitude era-like stuff that continues on until at least Benoit's death; checking Wrestling history, the last Bra and Panties match occurred in 2007. While Vince announced the Attitude era in 1997, it really wasn't until around March 98 that the programming and storylines began to mostly match the new philosophy he said the Attitude era was going to be about, a little before Wrestlemania where Stone Cold defeated Shawn Michaels - phasing out the last major champion of the Pre-Attitude era generation (incidental, actually, due to injury); all this happened the same month as the actual introduction of "Attitude" to the logo. Anyway, I understand the Attitude era as being from 1997 to 2002; with the major angles being: Austin vs. McMahon, The Corporation, The Wedding, The McMahon Helmsley Regime/Faction, The Rock's era, Austin's return, The Invasion, and finally the NWO and return of Hogan. Incidentally, the WWE stopped using the Attitude logo in May 2002, the same month Austin and WWE had their dispute, ending with Austin temporarily leaving the company June 3rd. After the logo disappeared, many of the sorts of Attitude era style angles and match types began to disappear. To me, May 2002 is a very logical end to the Attitude era, but I see people now ending it over a year earlier in March 2001 due to a heel turn with Austin, despite the Attitude era style still going full steam.

 

One more random observation: there’s a lot of really hardcore fans who seem to rate matches, not on their own opinion, but based on what they think the most uneducated casual wrestling fans will think of it. It’s like their reviewing matches based on some fictional version of their own opinion! IMO this comes off as a dishonest opinion steeped in pseudo-objectivitism, when all anyone wants to know is “What did you think of the match?”

I bring this up because I’ve been in a bunch of arguments now, and they all seem to be about this one thing: Me: “Wow! What a great match! That was a lot of fun.” Then, “Moment X sucked because it buries Wrestler A, and Wrestler B didn’t need that victory.” Me: “You honestly think that, you now no longer like Wrestler A because of this?” Them “No, but people will think that.” Me: “Which people are saying this?” Them “People are talking.” and then they proceed to show me a thread or article where the author is effectively doing the same thing - assessing the match not on their own opinion, but based on how they perceive some fictional group of idiot fans will think of it =P

Last edited by Jumpin - on 13 April 2018

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

OK, here's a question I have.

I'm aware of the Attitude era, when they used the WWF Attitude logo, and afterward came the whole "Get the F Out" thing, and then the WWE era when they began using the WWE Entertainment logo. When did people start to collectively start calling this the "Ruthless Aggression era?" despite the fact that WWE didn't have any such brand?
WWF Attitude December 1997 or March 1998 to May 2002 (The scratchy logo, without the Attitude, debuted in December 97 following the Vince McMahon's introduction of the Attitude era, but the "Attitude" name didn't appear in the logo until March 1998)
WWE Entertainment May 2002 to August 2014
WWE Network August 2014 to Present (although it launched in some places earlier in the year, unsure if the logo was used)

 

Many people now extend the Attitude era back to 1996, but realistically it is only due to some scattered Attitude era-like moments that occurred in 1996 and 1997 rather than actual branding; but this doesn't make a great deal of sense since there's a lot of Attitude era-like stuff that continues on until at least Benoit's death; checking Wrestling history, the last Bra and Panties match occurred in 2007. While Vince announced the Attitude era in 1997, it really wasn't until around March 98 that the programming and storylines began to mostly match the new philosophy he said the Attitude era was going to be about, a little before Wrestlemania where Stone Cold defeated Shawn Michaels - phasing out the last major champion of the Pre-Attitude era generation (incidental, actually, due to injury); all this happened the same month as the actual introduction of "Attitude" to the logo. Anyway, I understand the Attitude era as being from 1997 to 2002; with the major angles being: Austin vs. McMahon, The Corporation, The Wedding, The McMahon Helmsley Regime/Faction, The Rock's era, Austin's return, The Invasion, and finally the NWO and return of Hogan. Incidentally, the WWE stopped using the Attitude logo in May 2002, the same month Austin and WWE had their dispute, ending with Austin temporarily leaving the company June 3rd. After the logo disappeared, many of the sorts of Attitude era style angles and match types began to disappear. To me, May 2002 is a very logical end to the Attitude era, but I see people now ending it over a year earlier in March 2001 due to a heel turn with Austin, despite the Attitude era style still going full steam.

 

One more random observation: there’s a lot of really hardcore fans who seem to rate matches, not on their own opinion, but based on what they think the most uneducated casual wrestling fans will think of it. It’s like their reviewing matches based on some fictional version of their own opinion! IMO this comes off as a dishonest opinion steeped in pseudo-objectivitism, when all anyone wants to know is “What did you think of the match?”

I bring this up because I’ve been in a bunch of arguments now, and they all seem to be about this one thing: Me: “Wow! What a great match! That was a lot of fun.” Then, “Moment X sucked because it buries Wrestler A, and Wrestler B didn’t need that victory.” Me: “You honestly think that, you now no longer like Wrestler A because of this?” Them “No, but people will think that.” Me: “Which people are saying this?” Them “People are talking.” and then they proceed to show me a thread or article where the author is effectively doing the same thing - assessing the match not on their own opinion, but based on how they perceive some fictional group of idiot fans will think of it =P

The term ruthless aggression comes from a phrase in 2002 used by Vince McMahon. John Cena also uttered "ruthless agression" in his debut against Kurt Angle. Anothery key point about that month being the start of a new era is the brand extension, that was a significant change to the WWE.

It's not just wrestling I've noticed people doing that, but also in movies and video games. Rather than just rating it by how much they enjoyed the action or story, they include other things such as camera angles, lightning, frames per second, graphics rather than how much fun they had. Wrestling fans are pretty bad though when it comes to complaining about people being buried.



It's true! It's true!

I see it, especially among film fans. But also among video game fans - the example which sticks out are complaints about Wii U's bad name because it was confusing to people who might think it is just an accessory of the Wii - when the reality is the problem with the name is just that it was silly =P
I am not sure what to call these sorts of fans - "advocates for the fictional idiot" fans?

I say this fully realizing that I am likely guilty of it.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Just a note with Attitude era programming.

I found the quality of the show jumped up drastically following the Royal Rumble 2000. Not to mention, the match between Triple H and Cactus Jack at RR2000 is perhaps the best of Foley's career... certainly not as notorious as the HoaC with Undertaker, but overall I found the match to be perhaps the best of both Triple H and Foley's careers.

It could be just "Wrestlemania season" - but 98 and 99's Wrestlemania seasons were not close to this good.

In late 99, the seeds of this could be seen, but it was still among A LOT of terrible stuff.

Storylines are much more coherent and entertaining, there's this feeling of long-term goals for everyone; which makes them more satisfying - and wrestling quality is up like 1400%... and that's no exaggeration; it is tremendously better.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

Just a note with Attitude era programming.

I found the quality of the show jumped up drastically following the Royal Rumble 2000. Not to mention, the match between Triple H and Cactus Jack at RR2000 is perhaps the best of Foley's career... certainly not as notorious as the HoaC with Undertaker, but overall I found the match to be perhaps the best of both Triple H and Foley's careers.

It could be just "Wrestlemania season" - but 98 and 99's Wrestlemania seasons were not close to this good.

In late 99, the seeds of this could be seen, but it was still among A LOT of terrible stuff.

Storylines are much more coherent and entertaining, there's this feeling of long-term goals for everyone; which makes them more satisfying - and wrestling quality is up like 1400%... and that's no exaggeration; it is tremendously better.

It gets even better from April to September.



RAW and Smackdown. Paying attention to the fan reactions, the people who are over the most between this week and last:

* Bobby Roode
* Rusev
* Carmella
* Ronda Rousey
* Ember Moon
* Nia Jax
* Billie Kay & Peyton Royce
* Asuka
* Charlotte Flair
* Shinsuke Nakamura
* Fin Balor (is it Fin or Finn?)

With Braun strowman, A.J. Styles, Alexa Bliss, Kevin Owens, Sami (Sami? Sammy?) Zane (same here, not sure how to spell), Usos, Naomi, Becky Lynch, and Seth Rollins also getting decent reactions.

That’s A LOT of over right now, and I probably missed several. By “over” I mean love or heat against them.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Bruno Sammartino passes away at age 82. Well before my time (when I was a kid, it was the Hogan/Andre era), but I am well aware of who he was. I wasn't aware that he was the first star to really unify all the ethnicities behind him. New York is the only place that could have happened in the US at that time period - one of the locations where class divisions based on ethnicity and culture were large, and people like Sammartino helped unify them into the New York culture we've known and loved for decades now (well, except for people in the mid-western and southern US, from what I understand, many of you hate New York... Also Westside rap =P).

Speaking as someone who has never been to the US, if I were going to visit, New York is where I would want to go... maybe Seattle.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 18 April 2018

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

The news of Bruno dieing has my heart acheing. So, sad, to loose such a legend. It is hard to believe after seeing him on WWE over the last few years, with him looking so good. Hopefully, he was at peace, and moved on happily. He made a huge impact on wrestling, and lived an incredible life. Thank You, Bruno.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL