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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
pokoko said:

Kojima has charm.  Makabe ... they should probably stop trying to make him smile.  He looks like he wants to kill the photographer.

I feel bad for whomever has to ask Shibata to do this.

Haha, Makabe's expression is pretty pained, yeah.

I wonder if they'll use Shibata in this after his little scandal. Seems to have mostly blown over, but it might still be kind of sensitive. I hope they do!



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badgenome said:
pokoko said:

Kojima has charm.  Makabe ... they should probably stop trying to make him smile.  He looks like he wants to kill the photographer.

I feel bad for whomever has to ask Shibata to do this.

Haha, Makabe's expression is pretty pained, yeah.

I wonder if they'll use Shibata in this after his little scandal. Seems to have mostly blown over, but it might still be kind of sensitive. I hope they do!

Better than Honma's scandal, anyway.

Also, I found a picture of Shibata giving his most charming smile.



pokoko said:

Better than Honma's scandal, anyway.

I dunno, I liked the thought of Honma Kokeshi-ing their dog!

Luckily for Shibata he can't be expelled to Noah to wrestle in front of 18 people like Taichi was.



badgenome said:
pokoko said:

Better than Honma's scandal, anyway.

I dunno, I liked the thought of Honma Kokeshi-ing their dog!

Luckily for Shibata he can't be expelled to Noah to wrestle in front of 18 people like Taichi was.

Don't be like that.  Suzuki-gun invading NOAH probably boosted them up to 20-25 people at least.

Seriously, though, that makes me sad.

Shibata is taking a lot of bookings in other countries, now.  He probably would have told NJPW to screw themselves.

Scandals don't seem to amount to much when even Yoshiko can come back after being fired from Stardom.



pokoko said:

Shibata is taking a lot of bookings in other countries, now.  He probably would have told NJPW to screw themselves.

Scandals don't seem to amount to much when even Yoshiko can come back after being fired from Stardom.

Yeah, I think he's said he wants to stay in Japan and just wrestle a little outside here and there, though. But now that you mention it, I wouldn't be averse to him leaving NJPW if it meant working BJW. I would kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill to see Shibata vs. Hideki Suzuki.

I don't really follow joshi too closely since AJW went under way back when, but I was pretty shocked to see Yoshiko's name floating around not too long ago. That incident seemed like something that could (and maybe should) have been a career ender. She isn't back in Stardom, though, is she? Seems like it was another fed.

Edit: It was Seadlinnnnnnng or whatever the fuck it's called. I guess so many feds have open and closed that they've officially run out of names.



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badgenome said:
pokoko said:

Shibata is taking a lot of bookings in other countries, now.  He probably would have told NJPW to screw themselves.

Scandals don't seem to amount to much when even Yoshiko can come back after being fired from Stardom.

Yeah, I think he's said he wants to stay in Japan and just wrestle a little outside here and there, though. But now that you mention it, I wouldn't be averse to him leaving NJPW if it meant working BJW. I would kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill to see Shibata vs. Hideki Suzuki.

I don't really follow joshi too closely since AJW went under way back when, but I was pretty shocked to see Yoshiko's name floating around not too long ago. That incident seemed like something that could (and maybe should) have been a career ender. She isn't back in Stardom, though, is she? Seems like it was another fed.

Nanae Takahashi, one of the main people in Stardom, left and created her own little promotion, SEAdLINNNG.  And we thought Jeff Jarrett was bad with names.  She brought Yoshiko in as the other big star of the company.  They're actually the whole roster, as everyone else they bring in is paid by the performance.

I don't watch BJW.  I've heard some good words about it but every video I've seen is ... not my thing.  Oddly enough, I've seen more of BJW's "Crazy Monkey" in a joshi promotion because he used to team with this girl, believe it or not:

Edit:  I missed your Edit so here is my own Edit.



pokoko said:

I don't watch BJW.  I've heard some good words about it but every video I've seen is ... not my thing.  Oddly enough, I've seen more of BJW's "Crazy Monkey" in a joshi promotion because he used to team with this girl, believe it or not:

Edit:  I missed your Edit so here is my own Edit.

If you're talking about BJW's death match stuff, I find it really hard to watch now. Jun Kasai (who's actually not with BJW anymore, like seemingly everyone else he's got his own promotion now) is about the only guy who still does that style in a way I find watchable, mostly because his charisma is so out of control. But it's really bizarre how it's all become comedy at this point. It used to be so dramatic, but a light tube being broken is basically a laugh line at this point.

I'm not sure if there's any stuff of Honma vs. Yamakawa floating around on the internet anymore, but that shit was incredible. Back then I was so sure Honma was going to be the next big thing if he ever got to the major leagues... and then he joined AJPW!!!!! And then he jobbed jobbed jobbed. One day he gets an epic win over Abdullah the Butcher in BJW to show that he's the real deal, then seemingly the next he's Abby's lunch meat in AJPW. Broke my heart. *sniff* At least he finally kind of made it, even if it took him way too long.

The thing to watch in BJW now is their strong style division. Sekimoto & Okabayashi are godly. So if you've seen them and don't like it, well, I don't know what to say!



badgenome said:
pokoko said:

I don't watch BJW.  I've heard some good words about it but every video I've seen is ... not my thing.  Oddly enough, I've seen more of BJW's "Crazy Monkey" in a joshi promotion because he used to team with this girl, believe it or not:

Edit:  I missed your Edit so here is my own Edit.

If you're talking about BJW's death match stuff, I find it really hard to watch now. Jun Kasai (who's actually not with BJW anymore, like seemingly everyone else he's got his own promotion now) is about the only guy who still does that style in a way I find watchable, mostly because his charisma is so out of control. But it's really bizarre how it's all become comedy at this point. It used to be so dramatic, but a light tube being broken is basically a laugh line at this point.

I'm not sure if there's any stuff of Honma vs. Yamakawa floating around on the internet anymore, but that shit was incredible. Back then I was so sure Honma was going to be the next big thing if he ever got to the major leagues... and then he joined AJPW!!!!! And then he jobbed jobbed jobbed. One day he gets an epic win over Abdullah the Butcher in BJW to show that he's the real deal, then seemingly the next he's Abby's lunch meat in AJPW. Broke my heart. *sniff* At least he finally kind of made it, even if it took him way too long.

The thing to watch in BJW now is their strong style division. Sekimoto & Okabayashi are godly. So if you've seen them and don't like it, well, I don't know what to say!

I've always heard people singing the praises of Sekimoto but he's the only non-death match guy I know of by name from BJW.  The thing is, pretty much every match I've wandered across has been from the death match side, almost always with Abdullah Kobayashi.  Maybe I'm just unlucky.  I remember awhile back when a lot of people were hoping Sekimoto would jump to NJPW.  Also, from what I've seen of Jun Kasai, he's a really good regular wrestler.

I just don't like death matches or even most "hardcore" matches.  It's like cage matches for me, I don't find it compelling unless there is a good reason, like the blow-off for a major feud.  That's why cage themed PPVs can screw off.

Relative to everyone having their own promotion, that's kind of what's hurting Joshi so much.  It's a rare card that has more than one or two good matches because all the talent is spread out.  



pokoko said:

Relative to everyone having their own promotion, that's kind of what's hurting Joshi so much.  It's a rare card that has more than one or two good matches because all the talent is spread out.  

I have noticed that on joshi reviews. Everything is *1/2 - ** until you hit the ****+ main event. It's amazing to me how many of the top names are the same old names from when I was still watching. Granted, those girls all started super young, but shit... it's crazy that Aja and Toyota are still around. And still rocking, apparently! At least Aja is. I saw that Toyota was putting over Kaori Yoneyama, so I don't know what's up with her.

But it's a big problem all around for everyone but NJPW. There's a ton of talent out there, easily enough to have two other strong feds if you consolidated AJPW/NOAH/BJW/Wrestle-1/ZERO-ONE, but everyone seems to want his own little fiefdom and be willing to wrestle in front of 100 people to do it. Of the indies, only Dragon Gate has a deep roster and healthy rate of creating new talent.



badgenome said:
pokoko said:

Relative to everyone having their own promotion, that's kind of what's hurting Joshi so much.  It's a rare card that has more than one or two good matches because all the talent is spread out.  

I have noticed that on joshi reviews. Everything is *1/2 - ** until you hit the ****+ main event. It's amazing to me how many of the top names are the same old names from when I was still watching. Granted, those girls all started super young, but shit... it's crazy that Aja and Toyota are still around. And still rocking, apparently! At least Aja is. I saw that Toyota was putting over Kaori Yoneyama, so I don't know what's up with her.

But it's a big problem all around for everyone but NJPW. There's a ton of talent out there, easily enough to have two other strong feds if you consolidated AJPW/NOAH/BJW/Wrestle-1/ZERO-ONE, but everyone seems to want his own little fiefdom and be willing to wrestle in front of 100 people to do it. Of the indies, only Dragon Gate has a deep roster and healthy rate of creating new talent.

I really hate to say it, because I want to support young talent, but some of the joshi performers on the under-card are like 16 years old and green as grasshoppers, which makes the matches terrible.  That's probably why they have so many comedy matches, it looks too silly to take seriously.  Some others just want to be idols.  There actually are a good number of joshi wrestlers who are at the tier-B level, they're just spread out all over the place.  I can name plenty who would be as good as anyone on RAW/Smackdown (not named Becky Lynch) but there seems to be some kind of allotment system where no one gets more than two at a time.

Aja is still killing it but I'm not sure why a few of the others are still working.  I hope it's not because they need the money.  Some, like Ozaki, have ownership stakes, so they can do what they want.  Name recognition is probably a huge problem, as no one has a good TV deal.  Kana getting popular with her charisma was the exception instead of the rule.

The TV thing is probably a big reason for all the small promotions with both male and female wrestling.  No one has a good TV deal, not even New Japan.  Younger guys have a really hard time building a name for themselves and they'll probably never be as well known as even the moderately popular wrestlers from the past.

Though I'm not a fan of Dragon Gate in general, they deserve a huge amount of credit for becoming Japan's #2 promotion.  They've built a fanbase by creating their own style and unique presentation and, as you said, they're turning out some really well-trained talent.  Love they way they do all the stable warfare stuff.  

And Toyota losing to Kaori Yoneyama ... I'm sorry, I'm going to pretend I didn't read that.