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Forums - Sports - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
JWeinCom said:

Nope. It was not. 

Roman Reigns main eventing Mania is perhaps the least exciting outcome there could have been. Hard to get excited about the guy who has been dominating so long going to dominate some more.

The bigger problem is that even if it wasn't Roman, there was nobody else I would have really been excited to see win. There are guys I liked in the match but nobody who I really wanted to see win, because nobody has been built to that on the cusp level where people want to see them finally win the big one. 

Been giving the new regime the benefit of the doubt, but between the raising prices, kind of shady decisions, and booking. Meh. Just a lot of better things I could do with my free time.

I was kind of hoping to see Oba Femi win - Just because it would have out of left field to see an NXT guy who just got called up the main roster win and get pushed so fast.

But I mean, come on, you look at Oba Femi and everything about him SCREAMS "Star!" That dude is legit! It would have been a legit, believable face to inject some much-needed young blood at the top of the card since a lot of the guys in the main event are all on the wrong side of 40, with CM Punk closer to 50.



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JWeinCom said:

The ROil Rumble has been pretty good so far IMO.

The women's Rumble started out slow and was disappointingly lacking in surprises. Kind of amusing that Daniel Bryan was probably the most over person in the match. But once it got down to number 30 and I still had no clue who would win I got interested. It was a bit odd to have about half the field remaining at the end. It resulted in a boring first half but the second half had some pretty good spots and good intrigue. One of the better female rumbles in recent memory.

AJ vs Gunther was a match of the year candidate for me. Genuine stakes and two great performers. I kind of thought they were going to find some wiggle room to let AJ Styles continue, but it was a squeaky clean loss. Gonna be hard to explain if he wants to keep wrestling elsewhere. But at least AJ went out on a great match.

Sami Zayn vs Drew was also a good match with an underdog story. I had moments of doubt but never truly believed in Sami winning. Still a good match, but a bit of an odd choice to have two heartbreaking finishes back to back. I guess this means a big babyface win for the men's rumble?

Is it just me or was the restrictive local rules forcing EVERY Woman to be completely covered up from neck to toe? 

I actually prefer full bodied uniforms becuase I think it's a lot cooler to look at but it was really weird that not a single woman in that match showed any skin that wasn't hands or face. (Again, not objectifying women but it was definitely something I noticed and it pissed me off since, you know, human rights violations in the country).



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JWeinCom said:
PAOerfulone said:

Yeah, that was not a good Men's rumble.

Nope. It was not. 

Roman Reigns main eventing Mania is perhaps the least exciting outcome there could have been. Hard to get excited about the guy who has been dominating so long going to dominate some more.

The bigger problem is that even if it wasn't Roman, there was nobody else I would have really been excited to see win. There are guys I liked in the match but nobody who I really wanted to see win, because nobody has been built to that on the cusp level where people want to see them finally win the big one. 

Been giving the new regime the benefit of the doubt, but between the raising prices, kind of shady decisions, and booking. Meh. Just a lot of better things I could do with my free time.

Once #30 showed up I was like 'well it's either him or literally nobody I care about, so I'll take my dog for a walk." Came back to see who won and shut it off before the broadcast concluded.

I don't even hate Roman (I think he gets a lot of undue hate), but I do hate the idea that he's fated to be the top guy despite never really showing he had it in him to do it. he's an excellent main event foil or midcard guy, he is not on the same level as other 'main guys' in the past. he just...doesn't have any charisma at all. he didn't have charisma in the shield, he didn't have charisma as the tribal chief, he didn't have charisma in his entire fight with Brock or Cody, nothing. He is a charisma-less vaccuum, which sucks because again I think he's got a good look and is a good enough wrestler. he just lacks anything in terms of personality. he's a blank slate of nothing.

And honestly of his personas the tribal chief was th eone I hated the most becuase it was just 'hurrdurr me dumb tribal chief, me speak caveman on the island, me leader, you submissive...because we're apparently animals and not people'. HE was just dumb as hell and I couldn't buy into the idea that he was the leader of anything. Becasue GOOD Villains still have charisma, of which he had negative values. 

So when I saw it came down to Roman, Gunther, Randy, and...gag...Logan Paul, I was like 'well Gunther is the only one here I feel has any place winning. Randy won twice already, Roman won already and has proven repeatedly he can't carry the company, and Logan Paul is a disappointingly good wrestler since I want to hate him but he's actually pretty good at it...but he has no place winning and headlining wrestlemania. Gunther ended two careers in the past few months; clearly it's gonna be him or nobody'. And then I came back and it was reigns and...nah, every time I boot up netflix to watch the shows I'm reminded why I stopped watching WWE ages ago.

Say what you will about AEW (And I know you will), at least they put on a good show and don't seem to actively hate their fans. I know this is the same 'WWE hates its audience' Discourse from 2014-2018...yet it still feels valid. Over a decade later and they still haven't learned a damn thing.

Also Cody's boring as hell. And where the heck was CM Punk? wasn't he supposed to be around? (I haven't been paying close attention, I boot up for Royal Rumble, Elimination Chamber, and Wrestlemania, and might catch Summerslam and Money in the Bank if I'm feeling spicy).



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PAOerfulone said:
JWeinCom said:

Nope. It was not. 

Roman Reigns main eventing Mania is perhaps the least exciting outcome there could have been. Hard to get excited about the guy who has been dominating so long going to dominate some more.

The bigger problem is that even if it wasn't Roman, there was nobody else I would have really been excited to see win. There are guys I liked in the match but nobody who I really wanted to see win, because nobody has been built to that on the cusp level where people want to see them finally win the big one. 

Been giving the new regime the benefit of the doubt, but between the raising prices, kind of shady decisions, and booking. Meh. Just a lot of better things I could do with my free time.

I was kind of hoping to see Oba Femi win - Just because it would have out of left field to see an NXT guy who just got called up the main roster win and get pushed so fast.

But I mean, come on, you look at Oba Femi and everything about him SCREAMS "Star!" That dude is legit! It would have been a legit, believable face to inject some much-needed young blood at the top of the card since a lot of the guys in the main event are all on the wrong side of 40, with CM Punk closer to 50.


I haven't really seen enough of Oba Femi to know if he can pull that off. Obviously he looks amazing, but I dunno if he's ready in terms of ring work or mic work (not saying he's not I just don't watch NXT). 
To me the ideal winner is someone like he who shall not be named before Mania 20 or Rhea Ripley a few years back or Bayley before Mania 40. People who fans just really want to see get to that next level. And the problem is in this rumble I didn't really see that guy (or girl for that matter) that people were just dying to see win. And that's a long term booking problem. I think HHH has been doing a better job at getting people hot, but besides Cody nobody is ever actually "grabbing the brass ring". 

Roman has publicly been talking about how they don't build stars. So maybe they're building to something that plays off of that and I'll have to eat my words. Maybe it becomes a triple threat or something with someone like Fatu or Breaker. But, assuming the match is Roman vs Punk or Mcyntyre vs Roman, I'm really not interested in either.
Runa216 said:
JWeinCom said:

The ROil Rumble has been pretty good so far IMO.

The women's Rumble started out slow and was disappointingly lacking in surprises. Kind of amusing that Daniel Bryan was probably the most over person in the match. But once it got down to number 30 and I still had no clue who would win I got interested. It was a bit odd to have about half the field remaining at the end. It resulted in a boring first half but the second half had some pretty good spots and good intrigue. One of the better female rumbles in recent memory.

AJ vs Gunther was a match of the year candidate for me. Genuine stakes and two great performers. I kind of thought they were going to find some wiggle room to let AJ Styles continue, but it was a squeaky clean loss. Gonna be hard to explain if he wants to keep wrestling elsewhere. But at least AJ went out on a great match.

Sami Zayn vs Drew was also a good match with an underdog story. I had moments of doubt but never truly believed in Sami winning. Still a good match, but a bit of an odd choice to have two heartbreaking finishes back to back. I guess this means a big babyface win for the men's rumble?

Is it just me or was the restrictive local rules forcing EVERY Woman to be completely covered up from neck to toe? 

I actually prefer full bodied uniforms becuase I think it's a lot cooler to look at but it was really weird that not a single woman in that match showed any skin that wasn't hands or face. (Again, not objectifying women but it was definitely something I noticed and it pissed me off since, you know, human rights violations in the country).

No, it was definitely not just you. Even Jessica Carr (the referee) had to wear sleeves because I guess her forearms would have just driven the men into lustful fits.

In the initial Saudi Events they wore like baggy t-shirts. Which honestly may have been straight up unsafe as baggy clothes in wrestling can make it hard to grasp someone. I believe that was a factor in Droz being paralyzed. Since then they've moved onto these full body suits. Which in some cases feels counterproductive because if the point is to not get men excited I dunno if Liv Morgan in tight leather is achieving that goal.

Them doing shows in Saudi is definitely something that makes me feel weird. In terms of the women in particular, I kind of feel like as long as the women are going voluntarily (as in they can refuse without reprecussions like losing their place on the card) and are ok with what the rules are it feels like it's not my place to opine on whether they should do it or how they should feel.



Runa216 said:
JWeinCom said:

Nope. It was not. 

Roman Reigns main eventing Mania is perhaps the least exciting outcome there could have been. Hard to get excited about the guy who has been dominating so long going to dominate some more.

The bigger problem is that even if it wasn't Roman, there was nobody else I would have really been excited to see win. There are guys I liked in the match but nobody who I really wanted to see win, because nobody has been built to that on the cusp level where people want to see them finally win the big one. 

Been giving the new regime the benefit of the doubt, but between the raising prices, kind of shady decisions, and booking. Meh. Just a lot of better things I could do with my free time.

Once #30 showed up I was like 'well it's either him or literally nobody I care about, so I'll take my dog for a walk." Came back to see who won and shut it off before the broadcast concluded.

I don't even hate Roman (I think he gets a lot of undue hate), but I do hate the idea that he's fated to be the top guy despite never really showing he had it in him to do it. he's an excellent main event foil or midcard guy, he is not on the same level as other 'main guys' in the past. he just...doesn't have any charisma at all. he didn't have charisma in the shield, he didn't have charisma as the tribal chief, he didn't have charisma in his entire fight with Brock or Cody, nothing. He is a charisma-less vaccuum, which sucks because again I think he's got a good look and is a good enough wrestler. he just lacks anything in terms of personality. he's a blank slate of nothing.

And honestly of his personas the tribal chief was th eone I hated the most becuase it was just 'hurrdurr me dumb tribal chief, me speak caveman on the island, me leader, you submissive...because we're apparently animals and not people'. HE was just dumb as hell and I couldn't buy into the idea that he was the leader of anything. Becasue GOOD Villains still have charisma, of which he had negative values. 

So when I saw it came down to Roman, Gunther, Randy, and...gag...Logan Paul, I was like 'well Gunther is the only one here I feel has any place winning. Randy won twice already, Roman won already and has proven repeatedly he can't carry the company, and Logan Paul is a disappointingly good wrestler since I want to hate him but he's actually pretty good at it...but he has no place winning and headlining wrestlemania. Gunther ended two careers in the past few months; clearly it's gonna be him or nobody'. And then I came back and it was reigns and...nah, every time I boot up netflix to watch the shows I'm reminded why I stopped watching WWE ages ago.

Say what you will about AEW (And I know you will), at least they put on a good show and don't seem to actively hate their fans. I know this is the same 'WWE hates its audience' Discourse from 2014-2018...yet it still feels valid. Over a decade later and they still haven't learned a damn thing.

Also Cody's boring as hell. And where the heck was CM Punk? wasn't he supposed to be around? (I haven't been paying close attention, I boot up for Royal Rumble, Elimination Chamber, and Wrestlemania, and might catch Summerslam and Money in the Bank if I'm feeling spicy).

I liked Roman Reign's Tribal Chief character. I think that sort of family pressure and more subtle manipulativeness worked. I think poeple really wanted to see him lose, not because they wanted him off TV but because they didn't like his character (at least after the heel turn). And that's what a villain should do. I think the fact that he's still over shows they did a good job with him. Fans wanted to see him lose but still wanted to see him. He seems pretty clearly over so they're doing something right, even if your personal tastes vary. But I think while the fans there were fine with it because it's a major star and they don't have WWE events that often, I don't think most audiences want to see him main event another mania.

CM Punk is already a champ so he wasn't in the rumble. With two rumbles they didn't want to put on another match I guess, which is the problem with doing a men and women's on the same night, but that's another conversation.

I think Cody does great as a Hulk Hogan style baby face, but agree that kind of push can get stale after a while. I would not call him boring, but I don't think his booking right now is very interesting.

As for AEW... it's weird to say you know I will say something about AEW. Because... yeah if you specifically bring up the comparison, particularly in a direct response to me, then I probably will. It kind of feels like you want me to? But I wasn't planning on it otherwisse. I really never critique AEW unless someone directly brings up the comparsion to WWE. I don't think I've brought it up on my own for like years. I just don't see the relevance. One being bad doesn't make the other better. 

You're the one opening up the can of worms here. So, is that a debate you want to have? If so cool. I enjoy arguments now and then. If not, also cool, then keep AEW out of the conversation. I don't have any burning desire to make my feelings on AEW known, but kind of feels weird when people bring up the comparison then act like I'm the one trying to piss in their corn flakes for responding. *shrug* 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 31 January 2026

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JWeinCom said:
Runa216 said:

Once #30 showed up I was like 'well it's either him or literally nobody I care about, so I'll take my dog for a walk." Came back to see who won and shut it off before the broadcast concluded.

I don't even hate Roman (I think he gets a lot of undue hate), but I do hate the idea that he's fated to be the top guy despite never really showing he had it in him to do it. he's an excellent main event foil or midcard guy, he is not on the same level as other 'main guys' in the past. he just...doesn't have any charisma at all. he didn't have charisma in the shield, he didn't have charisma as the tribal chief, he didn't have charisma in his entire fight with Brock or Cody, nothing. He is a charisma-less vaccuum, which sucks because again I think he's got a good look and is a good enough wrestler. he just lacks anything in terms of personality. he's a blank slate of nothing.

And honestly of his personas the tribal chief was th eone I hated the most becuase it was just 'hurrdurr me dumb tribal chief, me speak caveman on the island, me leader, you submissive...because we're apparently animals and not people'. HE was just dumb as hell and I couldn't buy into the idea that he was the leader of anything. Becasue GOOD Villains still have charisma, of which he had negative values. 

So when I saw it came down to Roman, Gunther, Randy, and...gag...Logan Paul, I was like 'well Gunther is the only one here I feel has any place winning. Randy won twice already, Roman won already and has proven repeatedly he can't carry the company, and Logan Paul is a disappointingly good wrestler since I want to hate him but he's actually pretty good at it...but he has no place winning and headlining wrestlemania. Gunther ended two careers in the past few months; clearly it's gonna be him or nobody'. And then I came back and it was reigns and...nah, every time I boot up netflix to watch the shows I'm reminded why I stopped watching WWE ages ago.

Say what you will about AEW (And I know you will), at least they put on a good show and don't seem to actively hate their fans. I know this is the same 'WWE hates its audience' Discourse from 2014-2018...yet it still feels valid. Over a decade later and they still haven't learned a damn thing.

Also Cody's boring as hell. And where the heck was CM Punk? wasn't he supposed to be around? (I haven't been paying close attention, I boot up for Royal Rumble, Elimination Chamber, and Wrestlemania, and might catch Summerslam and Money in the Bank if I'm feeling spicy).

I liked Roman Reign's Tribal Chief character. I think that sort of family pressure and more subtle manipulativeness worked. I think poeple really wanted to see him lose, not because they wanted him off TV but because they didn't like his character (at least after the heel turn). And that's what a villain should do. I think the fact that he's still over shows they did a good job with him. Fans wanted to see him lose but still wanted to see him. He seems pretty clearly over so they're doing something right, even if your personal tastes vary. But I think while the fans there were fine with it because it's a major star and they don't have WWE events that often, I don't think most audiences want to see him main event another mania.

CM Punk is already a champ so he wasn't in the rumble. With two rumbles they didn't want to put on another match I guess, which is the problem with doing a men and women's on the same night, but that's another conversation.

I think Cody does great as a Hulk Hogan style baby face, but agree that kind of push can get stale after a while. I would not call him boring, but I don't think his booking right now is very interesting.

As for AEW... it's weird to say you know I will say something about AEW. Because... yeah if you specifically bring up the comparison, particularly in a direct response to me, then I probably will. It kind of feels like you want me to? But I wasn't planning on it otherwisse. I really never critique AEW unless someone directly brings up the comparsion to WWE. I don't think I've brought it up on my own for like years. I just don't see the relevance. One being bad doesn't make the other better. 

You're the one opening up the can of worms here. So, is that a debate you want to have? If so cool. I enjoy arguments now and then. If not, also cool, then keep AEW out of the conversation. I don't have any burning desire to make my feelings on AEW known, but kind of feels weird when people bring up the comparison then act like I'm the one trying to piss in their corn flakes for responding. *shrug* 

To be fair the AEW stuff was a general 'any time I make a comparison it gets complained about', and not a specifically 'YOU are going to do this', but rereading it I see how it felt a bit more contentious than intended. 



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So apparently, Ava (The Rock's daughter, who was GM of NXT) just left the company.

And she had some colorful language regarding ICE and the Trump Administration - the same administration that the higher ups in WWE are pretty tight with.



Runa216 said:
JWeinCom said:

I liked Roman Reign's Tribal Chief character. I think that sort of family pressure and more subtle manipulativeness worked. I think poeple really wanted to see him lose, not because they wanted him off TV but because they didn't like his character (at least after the heel turn). And that's what a villain should do. I think the fact that he's still over shows they did a good job with him. Fans wanted to see him lose but still wanted to see him. He seems pretty clearly over so they're doing something right, even if your personal tastes vary. But I think while the fans there were fine with it because it's a major star and they don't have WWE events that often, I don't think most audiences want to see him main event another mania.

CM Punk is already a champ so he wasn't in the rumble. With two rumbles they didn't want to put on another match I guess, which is the problem with doing a men and women's on the same night, but that's another conversation.

I think Cody does great as a Hulk Hogan style baby face, but agree that kind of push can get stale after a while. I would not call him boring, but I don't think his booking right now is very interesting.

As for AEW... it's weird to say you know I will say something about AEW. Because... yeah if you specifically bring up the comparison, particularly in a direct response to me, then I probably will. It kind of feels like you want me to? But I wasn't planning on it otherwisse. I really never critique AEW unless someone directly brings up the comparsion to WWE. I don't think I've brought it up on my own for like years. I just don't see the relevance. One being bad doesn't make the other better. 

You're the one opening up the can of worms here. So, is that a debate you want to have? If so cool. I enjoy arguments now and then. If not, also cool, then keep AEW out of the conversation. I don't have any burning desire to make my feelings on AEW known, but kind of feels weird when people bring up the comparison then act like I'm the one trying to piss in their corn flakes for responding. *shrug* 

To be fair the AEW stuff was a general 'any time I make a comparison it gets complained about', and not a specifically 'YOU are going to do this', but rereading it I see how it felt a bit more contentious than intended. 

Ok that's cool. Again happy to have the discussion but if people would rather avoid it, it's better just to discuss each in their own context and judge each on their own merits. 



PAOerfulone said:

So apparently, Ava (The Rock's daughter, who was GM of NXT) just left the company.

And she had some colorful language regarding ICE and the Trump Administration - the same administration that the higher ups in WWE are pretty tight with.

Good for her. Even if its a general prohibition against being "political" the time for that seems long past. 



https://www.reddit.com/r/AEWOfficial/comments/1qwafc7/las_vegas_says_fuck_ice/ AEW Vegas fans chant loudly FUCK ICE during main event.  Brody King, the big guy wears Abolish Ice shirts.  Raised money to help families affected . 



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!