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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
Leynos said:
Jumpin said:

It's just for contrast to establish the stakes of Cena's potential title win. Flair's only won the WWE championship twice, WCW championship 8 times. They count 6 of his NWA title runs because they fall under the jurisdiction of WWE and its recognized title lineages.

 So typical WWE nonsense of if it doesn't happen in their bubble it never happened. Yeah another reason I just prefer other wrestling companies. They celebrate all wrestling even when not their own history.

Although, WWE didn't decide this, WCW did in 1991. WWE merely inherited the title runs when they bought WCW and merged the title into the WWE championship in late 2002. Flair's other title runs are not only a different championship lineage, but of a championship WWE doesn't own the rights to.

And I wouldn't say WWE ignores wrestling outside their own bubble. In the past year they've brought in numerous international wrestlers. Two months ago they cross promoted with NOAH. Just in the past couple of weeks they hosted a TNA title match and a TNA X-division title match.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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JWeinCom said:
Jumpin said:

I don’t think diet and exercise are the reason, or mere time off. They’ve had time off of the road numerous times in the past, plus diet regiment and exercise are a regular part of the lifestyle of athletes - something these guys have been for nearly their whole lives. But when athletes suddenly hit their physical and athletic peaks in their mid-30s, it’s steroids.

There is simply no way you can be as on top of your diet and exercise on the road as you could at home. If they were so inclined, they could have definitely improved upon their routine during that year. And it's not uncommon for men to reach peak muscle mass in their early 30s. A bit quick to assume it's drugs is all I'm saying.

Sure, but as I pointed out in the post you're responding too, this is far from their only time off the road; and very far from their longest time off the road. Their latest time off the road also wasn't a year, it was two months. And as I pointed out above, these aren't just dudes who started exercising later in life and achieved muscle peak in their early thirties, these are guys who have been athletes for decades and (especially Montez Ford) suddenly gained a lot of muscle and athleticism over a very short time in their mid 30s. And I don't think I'm being quick to deduce PEDs at all - I'd go as far to say that these guys couldn't be more obviously on steroids even if their names were Lance Armstrong and Ben Johnson.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
JWeinCom said:

There is simply no way you can be as on top of your diet and exercise on the road as you could at home. If they were so inclined, they could have definitely improved upon their routine during that year. And it's not uncommon for men to reach peak muscle mass in their early 30s. A bit quick to assume it's drugs is all I'm saying.

Sure, but as I pointed out in the post you're responding too, this is far from their only time off the road; and very far from their longest time off the road. Their latest time off the road also wasn't a year, it was two months. And as I pointed out above, these aren't just dudes who started exercising later in life and achieved muscle peak in their early thirties, these are guys who have been athletes for decades and (especially Montez Ford) suddenly gained a lot of muscle and athleticism over a very short time in their mid 30s. And I don't think I'm being quick to deduce PEDs at all - I'd go as far to say that these guys couldn't be more obviously on steroids even if their names were Lance Armstrong and Ben Johnson.

I was wrong in how long they'd been out. Thought it'd been much longer. Still don't think there is enough to draw any conclusions, but not really a point worth discussing.


Last edited by JWeinCom - on 19 March 2025

Leynos said:
BasilZero said:

They are only counting the "World" titles from WWF, WWE, WCW and NWA

"Flair is recognized by WWE as a 16-time world champion (8-time NWA World Heavyweight Champion, 6-time WCW World Heavyweight Champion, and two-time WWF Champion)"

Though it seems like he had about 20 or 21 titles going by other sources - for some reason WWE is counting only 16 lol

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=1091&page=11

That's what I mean. He's won 21. Thing is Lawler won Almost 30 world titles with one promotion alone in the 80s.

Pretty sure that Lawler booked most of those title wins himself.

We're dealing with a scripted sport. It's all bullshit. Nothing wrong with picking the bullshit that leads to the best story.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 20 March 2025

The man drove 11 hours to get his back full of ventilation holes lol

https://bsky.app/profile/seanrosssapp.bsky.social/post/3lkrjsqng4c2k

If squeamish don't look. Moxley is just new-age Atsushi Onita lol

Spoiler!
Last edited by Leynos - on 20 March 2025

Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

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Stevie Richards and James Romero (on their channel) brought up an interesting thing about the disconnect between entrances and what happens in the ring. As much as people hate Rousseau (especially Cornette) and Rousseau hates wrestling these days, he points out that Rousseau did something that other writers wouldn't do - he'd talk to the wrestlers right before they went out, reminding them what happened last time they were on camera. Why is this important?

For years now now, many wrestlers when their music hits, they head down to the ring and do their regular entrance regardless of the context of their story. Even Cody Rhodes has been super smiley every time he's on his way to the ring, as though the story only counts when he reaches the ring. Richards points out that decades ago, Rousseau would stand in the Gorilla position and give wrestlers a simple run down before they headed out: "Remember, ____ happened last time you were on screen, tonight you wanna kill ____, and he's right there in the ring. Nothing else in your entrance matters, tonight your goal is him, not playing to the fans."

I remember when the shift began to happen to ignoring the story and just doing the intro thing. It was immediately after the Attitude era, Spring 2002, Get the F Out transitional phase, Hulk Hogan is supposed to be making a save, but instead he just prances around in that stupid boa thing he wears like some kind of fucking idiot while playing to the crowd while the person he was supposed to be saving was getting beaten up (I believe The Rock, who is being beaten down by Hall and Nash, or something like that).

I know Cornette and Richards aren't the most popular people within WWE, but the two of them are among the most knowledgeable and intelligent guys who ever worked for the company. These are guys who think a lot about the product, and have a ton of experience within. If WWE wants to strengthen their product, they should hire them as consultants, or at least listen to their shows.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

Stevie Richards and James Romero (on their channel) brought up an interesting thing about the disconnect between entrances and what happens in the ring. As much as people hate Rousseau (especially Cornette) and Rousseau hates wrestling these days, he points out that Rousseau did something that other writers wouldn't do - he'd talk to the wrestlers right before they went out, reminding them what happened last time they were on camera. Why is this important?

For years now now, many wrestlers when their music hits, they head down to the ring and do their regular entrance regardless of the context of their story. Even Cody Rhodes has been super smiley every time he's on his way to the ring, as though the story only counts when he reaches the ring. Richards points out that decades ago, Rousseau would stand in the Gorilla position and give wrestlers a simple run down before they headed out: "Remember, ____ happened last time you were on screen, tonight you wanna kill ____, and he's right there in the ring. Nothing else in your entrance matters, tonight your goal is him, not playing to the fans."

I remember when the shift began to happen to ignoring the story and just doing the intro thing. It was immediately after the Attitude era, Spring 2002, Get the F Out transitional phase, Hulk Hogan is supposed to be making a save, but instead he just prances around in that stupid boa thing he wears like some kind of fucking idiot while playing to the crowd while the person he was supposed to be saving was getting beaten up (I believe The Rock, who is being beaten down by Hall and Nash, or something like that).

I know Cornette and Richards aren't the most popular people within WWE, but the two of them are among the most knowledgeable and intelligent guys who ever worked for the company. These are guys who think a lot about the product, and have a ton of experience within. If WWE wants to strengthen their product, they should hire them as consultants, or at least listen to their shows.

When you Rousseau, do you mean Vince Russo?



Haha, that’s right. Russo.


Anyway, I just wanted to post some new stuff that’s really impressed me in WWE lately:

Naomi has been doing a stellar job in and outside of the ring. She’s been one of my favourites since the Funcadactyls days. She’s the most active of the multi-era-spanning women’s wrestlers, and she’s been a bit of a trendsetter - doing her own thing, having it work. Much of her style is replicated by other women in the company.

Randy Orton is someone I’ve really changed my mind on in the past couple of years. He has great presence in the ring that I didn’t find he had in his younger career, despite all the pushes he got. He is the epitome of showing how a little can go a long way.

Stephanie Vaquer is fantastic, originally I had her pegged behind Roxanne Perez and Giulia, but I think she’s exceeded both of them in the last little bit - granted, Giulia has been working through injuries for months now, and all she’s got is her in-ring work since she only speaks Japanese and very limited English. Stephanie Vaquer is in a similar position - I really dig her Psycloche inspired look - not a superhero fan, but the X-Men universe is the exception, so I love the reference.

Drew McIntyre and Damien Priest are two that really impressed me through 2024.

Penta, Jacob Fatu, Bron Breaker, and Je’Von Evans have all lived up to (and perhaps exceeded) their hype… And a bit of a tangent: I think it’s kind of funny how WWE pronounces Bron and Braun the exact same way despite being two different words (Braun should be much closer to Brown, and this includes the American pronunciation, Braun = Brown; just look up a documentary on Werner von Braun). Just kind of a nitpick, it’s like if WWE pronounced John as Joan. 😀

Anyway. Another topic: CM Punk.

My hypothesis about Punk’s actual condition, which is still hidden, is that if he wins Night 1, he joins the main event of night 2 via connection between Heyman and The Rock. The Rock also saying he’s friends with Punk recently - although, that could be nothing, and just a non-Kayfabe statement, but who knows?
This to me, right now, is the most exciting storyline.
I also hope Drew isn’t actually injured, because Drew vs Priest in a Wrestlemania caliber match would be stellar. These are two of my favourite wrestlers right now.

Women’s division (NXT aside) kinda crashed outside of the Naomi Cargill feud. Nothing has really developed since the PPVs. Rhea Ripley went from being a near the top of WWE (probably top 5) to falling out of the top 20. The Rock has also been out of the picture too much, but the anticipation for him to jump back in during the next three weeks is still there. This season is really stacked, though; they basically have four high caliber men’s events (The two title matches, the triple threat, and Priest vs McIntyre) that seem to be taking priority… Jey vs Walter seems to be pushed to the back of the pack, unfortunately, because that will probably be the best match of the four. The IC title matches is also climbing up as well, with Fatu, Braun, and Knight, and potential interference from Tama and Solo.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

What a utter mess.

So its been revealed that the triple threat between CM Punk VS Seth Rollins VS Roman Reigns will go main event at night 1 while Cody VS Cena main eventing night 2.....



Okay...so the Royal Rumble winner/WHC championship match isnt main eventing.


I still feel that the Royal rumble contract match should main event.



BasilZero said:

What a utter mess.

So its been revealed that the triple threat between CM Punk VS Seth Rollins VS Roman Reigns will go main event at night 1 while Cody VS Cena main eventing night 2.....



Okay...so the Royal Rumble winner/WHC championship match isnt main eventing.


I still feel that the Royal rumble contract match should main event.

Yeah, it’s really disappointing how they’ve handled that one. And it does seem like a violation of tradition. There is so much more they could have done, but instead have been investing those resources elsewhere. Dropping its position on the card trivializes the importance of a Royal Rumble victory. Regardless, it should still be one of the best, if not the best match across both nights.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.