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Forums - Politics Discussion - Face it. It is over. Trump won.

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Trump or Hillary?

Trump FTW! 305 51.69%
 
Hillary all the way! 285 48.31%
 
Total:590

I am not American, but have the common sense to realise Trump is bad for America AND bad for the world. Trump's ignorance of government policy, both foreign and domestic, is just breathtaking to me. He insists that he would order the military to come up with a plan to swiftly destroy ISIS, a plan he would give them 30 days to design. Seriously. How can a Presidential candidate get away with such ridiculous promises and statements?

If Trump is elected as President, he's going to destroy America's influence, power, and reputation, in the world.. and therefore make China becomes the next global leader.



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SpokenTruth said:

So it's Ok to offend anyone under 18?  I mean they can't vote, right?

Bad comparison, illegal's don't have citizenship whereas a lot of those under 18 do have citizenship and CAN vote in the election provided they reach the age of 18 before the election ... 



sethnintendo said:

Anyone dare to respond to how the hell Trump's economic plan would benefit anyone but the rich and multinational corporations? When has cutting the taxes on the rich benefited the poor? When has trickle down economics actually worked to increase the wages of average citizens?  How many people are affected by the estate tax?

Is he going to get rid of all the loopholes after lowering the business tax rate from 35 to 15? I highly doubt it. Many multinationals corporations already pay near zero to lower than 15% tax rate.  This would benefit small business owners that don't have tax shelters all over the world.  Perhaps we should cut all the damn subsidies and loopholes that big corporations lobbied millions of dollars for before cutting the tax rate to 15.

How is reducing the tax rate on foreign income to 5% (to bring the money back to USA going to help the USA economy? We already did this in a 2004 bill which many of the multinationals like Citigroup, Pfizer, Ford and others brought back tons of money. What did they do? They had massive layoffs that followed and used that money to buy back stock to drive their stock prices up further.

I dare anyone to respond. These old con economic policies haven't worked in the past and they won't work in the future.  The only thing I agree with Trump is that we need more infrastructure spending which we need more money from the multinationals that use our roads, highways, airports etc with little to no tax.

Your question is not even the question. Lowering taxes would benefit to the economy, that's a fact I believe nobody discusses about. It lowers the break even point for businesses, increases profits for companies, and it translates into more investment, employment, and business opportunities.

The real questions, and that's a whole different level : can you generate growth and cut spending enough to pay back what you loose in term of taxes, can you generate growth enough to have a significant impact on the economy, and how much government spending cut will negatively impact the economy. This is very difficult to assess, especially because it can't be just reduced to just tax cuts, it's a kind of new deal : spending cuts, trade barriers, public investment in infrastructure, etc. It is very dynamic and complex. Simple example, if you create one job, this person can spend more, pays more taxes, cost less (food stamps, etc.), and also contribute to the economy, and that creates a more favorable environment for more jobs.

About real examples, wether if it ever worked or not, it worked for Reagan. "GDP growth of -0.3% in 1980 to 4.1% in 1988", "unemployment averaging 7.5% [...] dropped to 5.4%" (wikipedia). But again, it's not really about is it working or not, it is about "is it sustainable ?", "is it enough to generate a significant and a growth on par with the cost ?", "is it worth to make more debt ?".

To be fair most economists I heard are quite pessimistics about Trump plan. But every single analysis I've read is criticizing the economic plan itself... but never ever give a fair comparison relative to the situation we will really get to if we continue the current politic. I mean in 8 years more debt was produced than in 230 years, the economy is not in a good shape, and the current and forseable future for democrat is status quo with China in term of trade. For me that last point alone is very significant, because that is perhaps the very single point Jill Stein, Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump and most people agree on : unfair trade with China is a major problem. And Clinton did nothing about it.



Norris2k said:

 

The real questions, and that's a whole different level : can you generate growth and cut spending enough to pay back what you loose in term of taxes, can you generate growth enough to have a significant impact on the economy, and how much government spending cut will negatively impact the economy. This is very difficult to assess, especially because it can't be just reduced to just tax cuts, it's a kind of new deal : spending cuts, trade barriers, public investment in infrastructure, etc. It is very dynamic and complex. Simple example, if you create one job, this person can spend more, pays more taxes, cost less (food stamps, etc.), and also contribute to the economy, and that creates a more favorable environment for more jobs.

Let us face the facts though.  The Bush tax cuts didn't really spur the economy as much as promised and we quickly went into the red after having a budget surplus from 98-01.  The problem with cutting taxes is that it is all just up to speculation.  Can we create new jobs... Will they create new jobs...  Well last time it didn't happen.  I suppose if we didn't start the two wars we might have been in better shape.  Then the 08 crash happened and shit hit the fan.



SpokenTruth said:

Irrelevant.  You said the fact they can't vote is reason enough to not care about offending them.  

Regardless of someone's citizenship status, do you not think that whether they can vote or not is a valid criteria by which to regard offense?

No but nice try projecting on me! Citizenship status is ALL that matters when it comes to elections. Minors have guaranteed capability to vote, illegal's don't on the other hand ... 

All that matters are the electorates or future electorates and illegal's will have NO PART in it compared to minors ...  



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Well the issue is the economic recovery is not broad and I question the stats.

According to the stats we are approaching full employment with sub 5% unemployment, yet the Labour Participation rate is far lower then in the past and the country is more riled up and divided as ever ?

Something does not add up...



Will he be memed into office?

 



GribbleGrunger said:
LadyJasmine said:
If Trump collapsed the media would have made hay of it ^^^

IMO Hillary health is in question and considering the duplicitous nature of the Democratic Party history with Hillary, I think her health will become one of those untrustworthy elements of Hillary.

And that would distress me too. This whole they would do it so we're alright to do it is childish. It's a human being and they're ill.

And she's running for president of the United States, it's kind of a big deal and important that they are capable of handling the stress and rigors for the next 4 years.  People her age are usually retired or nearly retired, not about to take on one of the biggest jobs around, one that's basically a 24/7 job that requires a lot of planning, traveling, speeches, and decisions to be made.  She has to be ready physically and mentally.  

Neither one is a spring chicken, I see only 1 term for either just out of the stress of the job and their age.  



I sense this election you may have states like California and NY have millions of useless votes for Hillary while Trump wins over states with less minorities like Iowa Ohio and NC.



sethnintendo said:
Norris2k said:

 

The real questions, and that's a whole different level : can you generate growth and cut spending enough to pay back what you loose in term of taxes, can you generate growth enough to have a significant impact on the economy, and how much government spending cut will negatively impact the economy. This is very difficult to assess, especially because it can't be just reduced to just tax cuts, it's a kind of new deal : spending cuts, trade barriers, public investment in infrastructure, etc. It is very dynamic and complex. Simple example, if you create one job, this person can spend more, pays more taxes, cost less (food stamps, etc.), and also contribute to the economy, and that creates a more favorable environment for more jobs.

Let us face the facts though.  The Bush tax cuts didn't really spur the economy as much as promised and we quickly went into the red after having a budget surplus from 98-01.  The problem with cutting taxes is that it is all just up to speculation.  Can we create new jobs... Will they create new jobs...  Well last time it didn't happen.  I suppose if we didn't start the two wars we might have been in better shape.  Then the 08 crash happened and shit hit the fan.

The speculation fuels itself largely, tax cut are in the hundreds billions, the derivative market is currently 1200 trillons dollars (20 times the world GDP), so it's a whole different magnitude. Trump is a lot about tax cuts from the begininng, why Wall Street does not care and massively give to Clinton ? Because they want no change, the current situation is very good for them.

It's possible money flew to speculation (hard to assess in such a messy economic system), but again, you can't reduce Trump plan to cut spending, it's also about changing corporate rules, an infrastructure program (which is a lot more beneficial than the trillon spent in wars), and a change in the trade with China and Mexico.  Also the Trump plan is much more ambitious and much more focused on business than what Bush did. Again, it's much more similar to what Reagan did, and that worked pretty well. Reagan was not just about tax cuts, he totally dealt with the Japanese unfair trade advantage (cheap currency), and Trump seems a lot more than Clinton willing to deal with Chinese problem. And this has a lot to do whith how their campains are financed.

I believe that with the level of technology, assets, know-how and infrastructure we have accumulated, it should be great, we should have stable, well paid jobs. And if we don't have it, some people are fighting against our interests, and we need a change. Trump is a change in the right direction.