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Forums - Gaming - PS4Pro was made to compete with PC - Sony Exec.

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padib said:
vivster said:

To be fair, my recent posts ride pretty hard on PS4 beating Xbox no matter what they do. Add to that my zero interest in anything Xbox and it might seem that way to some people.

I know I'm just using common sense but there are a lot of people foreign to that concept so they might think I have other motives.

I hope you don't think I was villainizing you for being a Sony fan. I was just answering your question. I don't think you have any negative motives, and I hate when people do that.

I think the PS4 is the answer for you because you are probably a fan of their games more than anything.

Also, and I hope I remember this correctly, I think you used to have a Vivi avatar or something like that. Most Final Fantasy fans were at some point Sony fans. As you said I was just using common sense.

Dude, that was like 5 years ago. I'm so touched you remembered.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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ICStats said:
kinisking said:
It's impossible for consoles to compete with PC, and that includes Scorpio and Pro. PC's are ever evolving and aren't hindered by price tags. If someone really wants something that is on par with PC, they should buy a PC.

 

Absolute rubbish.

To compete does not mean "can beat all PCs regardless of price".  To compete means to provide competitive value for some % of the market.

PS4 Pro clearly is competitive as you can not build a PC comparable to PS4 for $399.  Also PS4 Pro's GPU is more powerful than about 90% of GPUs on steam.  It is not only on par with average PC graphics, but beats the average PC by a lot.

Steam doesn't necessarily mean much though. I have a steam account and I'm not a PC player. Not only that, but the PS4 pro's specs will become more and more irrelevant as time goes by. So for people who are into PC because of graphics, it's just not the same.



Ltd predictions by the time 9th Gen comes out

Ps4:110million

Xbox one :75 million( was 65) 

Wii u: 20 milliion

ICStats said:

Ok, you're asking does this data mean PS4P could massively cripple PC sales.  I don't think so at all, I think like you say Pro will sell well, it will help PS4 sustain or maybe even increase it's sales a few million units, but won't be too noticeable change in the overall PC market.

Thank you. This is pretty much what I can see happening and fully agree with. (Well besides Scorpio with it's possible high PP).



Mankind, in its arrogance and self-delusion, must believe they are the mirrors to God in both their image and their power. If something shatters that mirror, then it must be totally destroyed.

Dgc1808 said:
eva01beserk said:

Is that really a positive point towards pc? Its still more expensive and will have to wait a whole year.

I think there is a part of pc gamers that are into it because of what it can offer and what price. What we saw from last gen cuz it laste so long was that by the 5th and 6th year into the gen, prey much any pc could beat a console for a good price. with no end in sight for the gen. this time consoles had a mid gen refresh right when the new cards are out and the originals where about to get outclased pretty cheaply. If they can last another 3-4 years for $400 than thats good for almost 4k. considering that most gamers still play on 1080p on pc's. and yes, many cry about 60fps, but that is in no way the standart and the majority of gamers seem to be fine with it and crave pixel count over framerate, unless of course we are talking about dips in the low 20' or high teens.

Yes. It means that the High-End/Enthusiast crowd, the people that primarily play on PC because of the power difference will always be out of reach. These people will pay $800+ on the first pc and pay $400+ every 3-5 years to upgrade and stay well ahead of sony's releases. The fact that this system will be outclassed by $500 machines in the not too distant future means that there's no hope when it comes to pulling in the people that care the most about visuals and performance. On the PC environment can cater to them. PS4Pro gives sony a shot at pc gamers that are comfortable with mid to low tier pcs but that's it really. That's maybe the majority but it's definitely not everyone. Things only get harder for Sony when we bring game libraries into the discussion. 

How can you say that the enthusiast are the ones waiting for the $500 pc's to upgrade? Then you say they are willing to spend $800+. your not being consistant. If you already have or planing to get a $800+ pc, then yea, most likely you will not even think twice about a pro. Thouse people are out off reach. But the people wic you first mentioned, that are planing to wait a year at least to get a $500+ pc to beat(I would not say beat, more like match) a pro, thouse people will definetly think twice and have theese thoughts witch are the main.

1) wait a whole year for the pc parts to drop so I can have a competitive machine.

2) will still pay more for a competitive machine.

3) consoles have longer life than pc's without the need to upgrade.

4) consoles have higher quality exclusives.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

S.T.A.G.E. said:
Lawlight said:

I still don't see how MS is 1upping them with the Scorpio when it hasn't even releasing this year. Sony will just announce the PS5 a year later and the Scorpio's momentum (if any) will be stopped dead in its track. Speaking of HDR, you realise that all PS4s will be capable of that, right?

And what that last MS tweet told me is that the only real perk of the X1S is the 4k Blu-Ray player (we all know how physical Blu-Ray sales are going these days, right) and that MS is still more concerned with being an entertainment system than a gaming platform. Guess what brought the PS back on top. Being a gaming machine.

Both brands are multimedia platforms which prioritize gaming. MS is competing with Sony. Microsoft using Sony's own product against them and Sony is backtracking saying that 4k doesnt matter now, when thats what they were selling about the pro from the beginning. Of course HDR is coming to all brands and stopping their gamers from jumping ship to PC is unrealistic. Its two completely different experiences. At this juncture, the only thing to improve the gaming experience that needs to be done as an upgrade is have games run at 1080p and 60 fps before the next gen comes. PS is on top and this wont stop its ascent, but Sony opened the door for Microsoft to mock the pro with the S model and tease the Scorpios actual power vs the Pro as the definitive console of the gen in terms of power. Now just because they one up them there, it doesnt mean that its going to sell better than the Pro. Its a sell for me, but I havent forgotten the wisdom of days past where the most powerful consoles do not always win out in the generation. Sony should've just said that this is a more powerful console to give choices, but its no threat to PC. Microsoft knows they cannot stop gamers from jumping ship to PC, which is why they have invested in XBox Live on PC coupled with Xbox/PC exclusives. Sony started this gen with a graphical advantage over the XBox. Being that Microsoft follows their every move Sony just opened the door for Microsoft to redeem themselves rather than wait until next gen to accomplish this.

Sony never said that 4k doesn't matter. They said that 4k blu-ray only matters to a minority of potential PS4 buyers. And the facts support that. MS using that against them is only valid of that helps MS gain marketshare. We'll see in the long run whether it goes. My guess? The gap will keep increasing. 

Sony only marketed the PS as a an entertainment device during the PS3 era. In fact it would make more sense for them to tout the ability to watch Netflix on it than playing movie discs. Remember that the PS4's biggest marketing angle is that it's a machine for gamers. Like with the 4 The Players ad campaign.

MS has started investing in PC because they know the console market is a no-win for them. They just cannot compete in this market.

In a year's time when the Scorpio releases, what will MS's marketing say? That the Scorpio can deliver 4k gaming? Something that Sony would have been saying in their ads for about a year already? There's just not enough of a difference for most people to care more about the Scorpio than the Pro or Slim PS4. 



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kinisking said:
ICStats said:

 

Absolute rubbish.

To compete does not mean "can beat all PCs regardless of price".  To compete means to provide competitive value for some % of the market.

PS4 Pro clearly is competitive as you can not build a PC comparable to PS4 for $399.  Also PS4 Pro's GPU is more powerful than about 90% of GPUs on steam.  It is not only on par with average PC graphics, but beats the average PC by a lot.

Steam doesn't necessarily mean much though. I have a steam account and I'm not a PC player. Not only that, but the PS4 pro's specs will become more and more irrelevant as time goes by. So for people who are into PC because of graphics, it's just not the same.

You're talking about a small segment of pc gamers who would not jump platform no matter what. House is talking about those people who would have got a decent PC (nothing fancy) for better graphics. Just look at the steam stats - the majority play at lower than 1080p. I can even see some of those jumping from PC to PS4.



Chazore said:
Captain_Yuri said:

"We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]"

By using a mid ranged 2016 GPU with a weak sauce CPU? Where the gamers have to choose between visuals or performance? While not allowing Mod Support?

Good Luck lawl

4 the players though! =D.

If they wanted to make it the ebst then they should have gone with the ebst. Also full mod support and free online would have helped but apparently that's not good enough, even for rock solid 60fps either.

 

End of the day I find it amusing how some fans claim that Sony never saw the platform as a form of direct competition and here we are seeing the company going with"we don't like people playing on PC, we want them locked inside our garden that we own and control".

That should be read as "at the exclusion of playing on a PS4."  PC users (me being one of them obviously) sometimes make the descision to go full PC, thus they don't buy the exclusive however many or few there are on a console.  This is Sony saying, "Hey we have an updated console that can pump out the best graphics on a console this gen, for a good price, right _now_, that might change your mind from not buying one to play some of our exclusives."

Some PC snobs always like to play the PC master race card, to show that their's is the far superior choice, always.  When in fact that is simply not the case if you want to play specific games you can't get on the PC.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



dharh said:

That should be read as "at the exclusion of playing on a PS4."  PC users (me being one of them obviously) sometimes make the descision to go full PC, thus they don't buy the exclusive however many or few there are on a console.  This is Sony saying, "Hey we have an updated console that can pump out the best graphics on a console this gen, for a good price, right _now_, that might change your mind from not buying one to play some of our exclusives."

Some PC snobs always like to play the PC master race card, to show that their's is the far superior choice, always.  When in fact that is simply not the case if you want to play specific games you can't get on the PC.

Tbh I go where the games that interest me are (and with mod support as well as other benefits). We get all sorts of snobs from any platform that claim theirs is the better choice. That video for example that RUler linked in his thread about Bethesda/Sony mod support has the gent's youtube channel chock full of jabs at PC and Xbox players, there really sin't a side that remains pure, innocent and clean in this industry, not even mobile players. 



Mankind, in its arrogance and self-delusion, must believe they are the mirrors to God in both their image and their power. If something shatters that mirror, then it must be totally destroyed.

ICStats said:

I am, true.  It's not black and white, nor did I say so.  I did say "competitive value for some % of the market", not "all".

For the all-in-one package and everything you can do with a PC, the PC is miles better value.  However laptop shipments have long surpassed desktop PC shipments.  If you own a laptop then most non-gaming needs are met, and for most it means no GPU upgradability.  That diminishes price advantages that getting another PC might have.

I'm taking issue mostly with your statement of:
"PS4 Pro clearly is competitive as you can not build a PC comparable to PS4 for $399. "

You never elaborated or made any further distinctions on the pricing issues outside of that, hence you give the impression that the PC is inherently worst value for money when there is so much more to the cost of a platform than your outright hardware purchase.

In otherwords a full break down of costings is more representative than the simple plain figures you have used.


kinisking said:

Steam doesn't necessarily mean much though. I have a steam account and I'm not a PC player. Not only that, but the PS4 pro's specs will become more and more irrelevant as time goes by. So for people who are into PC because of graphics, it's just not the same.

If you have a Steam account and don't use it or you have not purchased at-least a single game, then you are not counted in any of Steams statistics, Steam is more presentative of "active" players, where-as Sony and Microsoft will just use a collective number regardless if a player is active or not.

I wouldn't be surprised if Steam had something like half a billion user accounts all told, with that said only 180~ million are active on a monthly basis who have purchased at-least 1 game, thus the accounts with say only Team Fortress 2 don't count.


Lawlight said:

Sony never said that 4k doesn't matter. They said that 4k blu-ray only matters to a minority of potential PS4 buyers. And the facts support that. MS using that against them is only valid of that helps MS gain marketshare. We'll see in the long run whether it goes. My guess? The gap will keep increasing.

To be fair, DVD never really mattered at one point either.
Yet the PS2 included the technology and that storage medium then exploded into popularity.

Blu Ray only mattered to a minority of movie goers at one point, yet the PS3 still pushed that Medium, whilst Microsoft backed the defunct HD DVD standard.

The point is that these consoles are supposed to have a life-time spanning years, what will the market look like in 5 years time? What will 4k adoption be like then? I would likely be more content to retain the Scorpio as a Multimedia hub over the long term.

I don't doubt that Sony has this generation in the bag, but that doesn't mean they should be above criticism where criticism is due, same goes for Microsoft and Nintendo, the consumer can influence things when we demand it. (I.E. Kinect, Always online etc'.)

Lawlight said:

You're talking about a small segment of pc gamers who would not jump platform no matter what. House is talking about those people who would have got a decent PC (nothing fancy) for better graphics. Just look at the steam stats - the majority play at lower than 1080p. I can even see some of those jumping from PC to PS4.

Doesn't really say much when you take a game like Assassins Creed on the PS4 where 100% of gamers play at a resolution lower than 1080P.

And for the record, 1080P is the most popular resolution on the PC, 42.39% play at a resolution that is 1080P or higher.
To put that into perspective you are looking at a good 70-80 million PC gamers, still think that's a small number to ignore?

Not to mention resolutions like "1536 x 864" that Steam reports isn't a standard resolution, it's likely a scaling bug that has been mis-reported, yet commands almost 4% of PC gamers? (I have *never* seen a panel like that in my entire Multi-decade PC gaming life.)

2560x1440, 2560x1600, 2560x1080, 4k and other Ultra Wide standards are all growing on the PC, whilst lower resolutions in general are seeing downward trends.

With that said, the point of the PC isn't the power to have the best, that's always an option regardless of the console that is on the market.
The power is that you can spend less and get less or spend more and get more, you actually have a choice on what you can have and what you want and when you wish to upgrade, rather than having someone dictate all that on their own terms.




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kinisking said:
ICStats said:

 

Absolute rubbish.

To compete does not mean "can beat all PCs regardless of price".  To compete means to provide competitive value for some % of the market.

PS4 Pro clearly is competitive as you can not build a PC comparable to PS4 for $399.  Also PS4 Pro's GPU is more powerful than about 90% of GPUs on steam.  It is not only on par with average PC graphics, but beats the average PC by a lot.

Steam doesn't necessarily mean much though. I have a steam account and I'm not a PC player. Not only that, but the PS4 pro's specs will become more and more irrelevant as time goes by. So for people who are into PC because of graphics, it's just not the same.

Steam tracks 10s of millions of active users, and their collective data means far more than your anecdote of One.



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