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Forums - Gaming Discussion - VR has a better chance in undeveloped countries and here is why

Roderic_Blackwood said:
Nautilus said:

I never said you were rich.I said that you probably belonged to the richer part of the society.There is a big, even if subtle, difference there.But that still dosent change the fact that videogames in general are a luxury.Sure you can save and buy your PS4, Wii U and what not, but you only do that because you put value on it.For a family that has only casual gamers, its still a big investment to put down the equivalent of 300 dollars plus all the games, acessories and everything else on something that is not necessary to survive or you dont fully enjoy, especially when you dont have much money to waste.And that would be especially true to VR devises, that has the equivalent of at least of 800 dollars of investment to use!If thats already expensive for a country such as US or a continent such as Europe, imagine for a country with much lower purchase power as Mexico.

I dont know where you got your data about the Xbox, but you cant just "adapt" in the sense you are implying.You cant just lower a system that costs $250 to make and lower to lets say $150 to the mexican matket and have profit with it.I mean, that beyond obvious.Products have their prices for a reason and the production costs(and shipments) dont magically lower when you move to a different country.I cant even believe i need to sau this.

And im not saying (nor the other guy) that VR cant sell there.Its just going to sell wayyyyy less than in the bigger markets.And not trying to piss on Mexico, thats simply how things are.

Yes, you can adapt, for example Microsoft have factories in Mexico and Brazil so it's way cheaper to buy an Xbox One (made in Mexico) than a PS4 (made in China), XBox One is relatively cheap here. And I'm not saying that we're going to buy more PSVR systems than in the US, it's impossible but that doesn't mean that we're not a good market for them.

So a 2200 reais console is cheaper than a 350 dollars console?Where the hell are you taking this from?Even if you convert dollars in reais and vice versa, its still more expensive, and when speaking about economics, thats wrong to do!The only place videogames are cheaper or more acessible in third world countries is, with respect, in your head.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

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invetedlotus123 said:
Nautilus said:

You say that is a healthy market with that kind of price for the console?With game costing as much as 200 reais or more at launch?(I have friends there that keeps me informed about such things).Brazil is not a market that can be ignored, much as Mexico, but saying that thats healthy is simply wrong.And sure, it may have sold really well in the past, but nowadays its another story, specially with the current state of the brazillian economy.

People here finance everything. It isn`t uncommon for a person with a 1200 BRL montlhy income to have a 2000 BRL phone or buy other goods priced in proportion with their income would make any european or american call them insane.

And thats healthy?Having to spend way more than your monthly income to buy a console?You can finance and get yourself in debt all you want, but thats right there is the definition of a market that is not healthy(the part that, you know, have to get in debt to be able to afford just the console).And Brazil dont sell enough consoles games to be considered a big market, but thats beyond obvious.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

in poor countrys people have more space because propertys are much cheaper!



That would be interesting, although I don´t see that happening soon due to the cost of the technology.
I went to an art exibition last week where there was a few installations with VR. One of them reproduced a house where Van Gogh lived, but with graphics that mimic his paitings, and the other had an adventure game. Cool uses for VR but I still fell awkward using it to play games.



Game_God said:
Yeah right, undevelopped countries with people with low income will support expensive tech like VR when they fight for daily survival...
Really??? Is this a joke thread??? Seriously these kind of tech tends to be even more expensive in these countries than in ours, a PS4 in Brazil costs almost as much as half a year of average income & you are saying that something way more expensive as better chance to sell in these type of countries???
... mind-boggling...

Someone obviously didn't read the main post... he has a point. Although I am not sure how much Sony would gain from PSVR games played at Internet Cafè..



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fuallmofus said:
in poor countrys people have more space because propertys are much cheaper!

Undeveloped countries aren't poor. And, atleast here on Brazil, the cost per  Square Meter on my city's most expensive region, R$ 23.710  which was equal 12.000US$ per Square Meter, 7.400US$ at current exchange rate. Isn't the country's most expensive region.



Nautilus said:
invetedlotus123 said:

People here finance everything. It isn`t uncommon for a person with a 1200 BRL montlhy income to have a 2000 BRL phone or buy other goods priced in proportion with their income would make any european or american call them insane.

And thats healthy?Having to spend way more than your monthly income to buy a console?You can finance and get yourself in debt all you want, but thats right there is the definition of a market that is not healthy(the part that, you know, have to get in debt to be able to afford just the console).And Brazil dont sell enough consoles games to be considered a big market, but thats beyond obvious.

Do you consider UK(3+countries) a big Market? It have months were software sales are pretty sad. Here, consoles sell more software than PC, A lot of games sold more than 30-50K in a year. A country where  people purchase more imported products than national produced ones, the best selling national produced console sold more than 5 Millions units. After nearly 3 years in the generation, there isn't any country, with exception of the USA, where the Xbox One or the PS4 sold more than 5 Millions, majority is under 4.

So, is a market small when the "official" best selling console, on that market, wasn't outsold after 3 years of generation by other "big" countries ? I'm sure that atleast the Xbox 360 and PS2 sold on par, or even more, on the country, than that. 



Swordmasterman said:
Nautilus said:

And thats healthy?Having to spend way more than your monthly income to buy a console?You can finance and get yourself in debt all you want, but thats right there is the definition of a market that is not healthy(the part that, you know, have to get in debt to be able to afford just the console).And Brazil dont sell enough consoles games to be considered a big market, but thats beyond obvious.

Do you consider UK(3+countries) a big Market? It have months were software sales are pretty sad. Here, consoles sell more software than PC, A lot of games sold more than 30-50K in a year. A country where  people purchase more imported products than national produced ones, the best selling national produced console sold more than 5 Millions units. After nearly 3 years in the generation, there isn't any country, with exception of the USA, where the Xbox One or the PS4 sold more than 5 Millions, majority is under 4.

So, is a market small when the "official" best selling console, on that market, wasn't outsold after 3 years of generation by other "big" countries ? I'm sure that atleast the Xbox 360 and PS2 sold on par, or even more, on the country, than that. 

Of course UK is a big market.Its not as big as US or Japan, but it is a big market.Its the se ond biggest market for Xbox if im not mistaken.And those examples you give are horrible, if not totally irrelevant to the point.Selling 30-50 k a year is alot?In a day and age that games like FF XV needs to sell 10 millions?In a day and age that duch games can do that number in a week in the bigger markets, and it dosent even need to be the launch week or launch month?Just accept it:all facts points to the fact that Brazil, Mexico, Chile, South Africa, etc etc are not big markets, they are small markets, BUT are not small enough to be ignored and more than justifies invesent in them, as long as its not high.

And I wont even comment how out of place is to compared a console that has already lived through its whole life(Im assuming those 5 million units sold come from the PS2) with one that probably didnt even pass half its life and use it as a defining argument.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:
Swordmasterman said:

Do you consider UK(3+countries) a big Market? It have months were software sales are pretty sad. Here, consoles sell more software than PC, A lot of games sold more than 30-50K in a year. A country where  people purchase more imported products than national produced ones, the best selling national produced console sold more than 5 Millions units. After nearly 3 years in the generation, there isn't any country, with exception of the USA, where the Xbox One or the PS4 sold more than 5 Millions, majority is under 4.

So, is a market small when the "official" best selling console, on that market, wasn't outsold after 3 years of generation by other "big" countries ? I'm sure that atleast the Xbox 360 and PS2 sold on par, or even more, on the country, than that. 

Of course UK is a big market.Its not as big as US or Japan, but it is a big market.Its the se ond biggest market for Xbox if im not mistaken.And those examples you give are horrible, if not totally irrelevant to the point.Selling 30-50 k a year is alot?In a day and age that games like FF XV needs to sell 10 millions?In a day and age that duch games can do that number in a week in the bigger markets, and it dosent even need to be the launch week or launch month?Just accept it:all facts points to the fact that Brazil, Mexico, Chile, South Africa, etc etc are not big markets, they are small markets, BUT are not small enough to be ignored and more than justifies invesent in them, as long as its not high.

And I wont even comment how out of place is to compared a console that has already lived through its whole life(Im assuming those 5 million units sold come from the PS2) with one that probably didnt even pass half its life and use it as a defining argument.

Being the 2 biggest market for the Xbox One don't means nothing when Mexico or Brazil is the 3 biggest market for the console, Microsoft stated that, i forgot which one.

5 Million is from one of the only consoles that got a fair price on Brazil and, as i said before, people purchase more imported consoles than nationally produced ones, this is the best selling national produced console, Master System. PS2 and Xbox 360 sold on par or even more than that.

I also stated that Console gaming is bigger than PC Gaming here on Brazil, PC is more for MMO or Moba. And it sells 50K+ in a year. We have a few One Million Sellers +. Look at the USA, several months  where games don't sell close to a Millions, some months even half. Microsoft and Sony's biggest tittles selling 150-200K First week and being a "big success". Why something a little smaller can't be the same ? Last month was a very bad month for the UK, Game sales were very low, but this don't mean that isn't a big or important market.

 

Ahead of the UK(3+Countries), which have over 3.7 Billions on Gaming Revenue, is Germany over 4 Billions; and Korea, a little more than  4 Billions, then you have a very big jump to 14, 22 and 24 Billions from the 3 biggest gaming markets, Japan, USA and China.

Brazil+Mexico's revenue is something close to 2.6-3 Billions of US$, pretty much the same as France. There are only 7 countries(more or less) who have more than 2 Billions of Revenue.

Brazil and Mexico are on the top 10-14 of Biggest countries for gaming, wich, each one on its own,  have the same,or even bigger, gaming marker than Australia. You is comparing a 2 countries,  each with over 1.5 Billions of US$ of revenue and on a region with other 2-5 countries that have 200 Millions+ Revenue on gaming, with a region where the biggest country, South Africa, has only over 114 Millions of US$ revenue on gaming per year, the other countries of South Africa  is = to 50 Millions or less.

It isn't the same thing, Brazil and Mexico are a dozen of times, and something more, bigger than the biggest south african country and the  other countries of South America have a good ammount of revenue per year. Argentina + Colombia + Venezuela = over  900-1 Billion US$ in revenue.



Swordmasterman said:
Nautilus said:

Of course UK is a big market.Its not as big as US or Japan, but it is a big market.Its the se ond biggest market for Xbox if im not mistaken.And those examples you give are horrible, if not totally irrelevant to the point.Selling 30-50 k a year is alot?In a day and age that games like FF XV needs to sell 10 millions?In a day and age that duch games can do that number in a week in the bigger markets, and it dosent even need to be the launch week or launch month?Just accept it:all facts points to the fact that Brazil, Mexico, Chile, South Africa, etc etc are not big markets, they are small markets, BUT are not small enough to be ignored and more than justifies invesent in them, as long as its not high.

And I wont even comment how out of place is to compared a console that has already lived through its whole life(Im assuming those 5 million units sold come from the PS2) with one that probably didnt even pass half its life and use it as a defining argument.

Being the 2 biggest market for the Xbox One don't means nothing when Mexico or Brazil is the 3 biggest market for the console, Microsoft stated that, i forgot which one.

5 Million is from one of the only consoles that got a fair price on Brazil and, as i said before, people purchase more imported consoles than nationally produced ones, this is the best selling national produced console, Master System. PS2 and Xbox 360 sold on par or even more than that.

I also stated that Console gaming is bigger than PC Gaming here on Brazil, PC is more for MMO or Moba. And it sells 50K+ in a year. We have a few One Million Sellers +. Look at the USA, several months  where games don't sell close to a Millions, some months even half. Microsoft and Sony's biggest tittles selling 150-200K First week and being a "big success". Why something a little smaller can't be the same ? Last month was a very bad month for the UK, Game sales were very low, but this don't mean that isn't a big or important market.

 

Ahead of the UK(3+Countries), which have over 3.7 Billions on Gaming Revenue, is Germany over 4 Billions; and Korea, a little more than  4 Billions, then you have a very big jump to 14, 22 and 24 Billions from the 3 biggest gaming markets, Japan, USA and China.

Brazil+Mexico's revenue is something close to 2.6-3 Billions of US$, pretty much the same as France. There are only 7 countries(more or less) who have more than 2 Billions of Revenue.

Brazil and Mexico are on the top 10-14 of Biggest countries for gaming, wich, each one on its own,  have the same,or even bigger, gaming marker than Australia. You is comparing a 2 countries,  each with over 1.5 Billions of US$ of revenue and on a region with other 2-5 countries that have 200 Millions+ Revenue on gaming, with a region where the biggest country, South Africa, has only over 114 Millions of US$ revenue on gaming per year, the other countries of South Africa  is = to 50 Millions or less.

It isn't the same thing, Brazil and Mexico are a dozen of times, and something more, bigger than the biggest south african country and the  other countries of South America have a good ammount of revenue per year. Argentina + Colombia + Venezuela = over  900-1 Billion US$ in revenue.

First of all, your english is sometimes hard to understand.Not wanting to throw it at you, but it sometimes makes the point you are trying to make hard to understand.

As I said before, lisitng a past success, one that has happened long ago, is not revelevant at all.A market can be very healthy at one point, and not anymore at another.Just see Japan for an easy example of decline on console sales.So your "5 million" argument is a moot point.

"I also stated that Console gaming is bigger than PC Gaming here on Brazil, PC is more for MMO or Moba. And it sells 50K+ in a year. We have a few One Million Sellers +. Look at the USA, several months  where games don't sell close to a Millions, some months even half. Microsoft and Sony's biggest tittles selling 150-200K First week and being a "big success". Why something a little smaller can't be the same ? Last month was a very bad month for the UK, Game sales were very low, but this don't mean that isn't a big or important market.".As I said, your wording on this makes it a bit dificult to understand, but from what I gather, its also a weak argument.Brazil have a few million sellers sure, but are they all from this generation, or cross-generation?Even further, I dont see why games not selling million on the US makes the emergent countries markets any less stronger.I mean, the few titles that does sell one million in Brazil for example, must have sold five times more on US.So again, moot point.And it depends on many circumstances for a game to have a succesful first week, such as game market appeal, budget, and shipment numbers.You generalize too much, making for a not very strong argument.

And that revenue argument is also a double-edge sword.At first it also kind of reaffirms my argument, that Brazil and Mexico for example are not big of a market.Take the toal revenue for example.You said that Brazil + Mexico makes for around 2.5 billion dollars of revenue, but thats two countries, with a total of around 320 million people.The UK, in another hand has a revenue of around 3.8 billion dollars(in the gaming industry), and the country only has 64 million people.The same goes for France, which revenue floats around 2.7 billion dollars, and has the population around 66 millions.You would think the population has nothing to do with the succes of the gaming industry in a market, but it does.Lower population with more purchasing power means less money spend on marketing(since it has less "ground" to cover), the distribution cost is lower, since there are fewer places you need to distribute games to, and many other reasons.

And the other side of the argument is that "revenue" covers everything.Console gaming, PC gaming, purchases related to acessories, and more important, mobile gaming.While yes, I cant say that mobile gaming has a bigger influence on emergent countries than developed ones, it also messes with the data to the point that, if you dont have the information which says what revenue belongs to more traditional gaming or to mobile gaming, it will interfere and make you make wrong assuptsions if you associate that only to console and PC.

Its not a bad thing.It just isnt as important as the other markets, thats all.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1