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Forums - Nintendo - Who will provide the NX GPU?

 

Who is making the NX GPU

nVida 187 41.19%
 
AMD 210 46.26%
 
Silicon Graphics Inc 16 3.52%
 
Sony (the power of the Cell!!!) 41 9.03%
 
Total:454
TheLastStarFighter said:
Soundwave said:
The Supplemental Device patent states the the SCD uses the same power supply as the base unit.

So it's unlikely it's a $200+ desktop Nvidia GPU if they ever even use this SCD patent. That would need it a second power supply for sure.

You know what wouldn't? A second little Tegra X2 chip.

Honestly, that doesn't make any sense at all.  Why would one chip require the system to be plugged in twice and the other not?  They are connected to each other.

It likely means the SCD is basically literally pretty much just the SoC. Everything else is stripped off (the patent even says this) presumably so the SCD can be pretty cheap. Which I'd be ok with. 

Two Tegra X2s in unison maybe with a higher bandwidth pool of RAM for 1080p resolution would be a kick-ass little rig all things considered and probably Nintendo would also save money on manufacturing costs because they'd be ordering more of the same chip. 

It's better than nothing (new Nintendo slogan?), lol. 



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Soundwave said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

Honestly, that doesn't make any sense at all.  Why would one chip require the system to be plugged in twice and the other not?  They are connected to each other.

It likely means the SCD is basically literally pretty much just the SoC. Everything else is stripped off (the patent even says this) presumably so the SCD can be pretty cheap. Which I'd be ok with. 

Two Tegra X2s in unison maybe with a higher bandwidth pool of RAM for 1080p resolution would be a kick-ass little rig all things considered and probably Nintendo would also save money on manufacturing costs because they'd be ordering more of the same chip. 

It's better than nothing (new Nintendo slogan?), lol. 

You're still not answering your initial statement, which makes no sense.



TheLastStarFighter said:
Soundwave said:

It likely means the SCD is basically literally pretty much just the SoC. Everything else is stripped off (the patent even says this) presumably so the SCD can be pretty cheap. Which I'd be ok with. 

Two Tegra X2s in unison maybe with a higher bandwidth pool of RAM for 1080p resolution would be a kick-ass little rig all things considered and probably Nintendo would also save money on manufacturing costs because they'd be ordering more of the same chip. 

It's better than nothing (new Nintendo slogan?), lol. 

You're still not answering your initial statement, which makes no sense.

It would mean you have only one power supply (which comes with the base unit). A desktop Nvidia GPU like you described would require a monstrous power supply unit, now either Nintendo would have to ship that with the base NX unit, which would be stupid because it would be gross overkill for people who will never buy the SCD and it would be the size of the system itself (lol) or it would have to come with its own power supply unit. 

By the way that wouldn't be the first time that has happened to Nintendo, the Disk Drive add-on for the Famicom needed its own power supply. 

If the SCD is just a second Tegra X2 with many a few modifiers, Nintendo could just ship the base NX with one 50 watt power supply, which is reasonable, this is about the same thing the Wii U comes with. Also I just really, really, reeeeally doubt Nintendo is going to spend a lot of money on a custom design Nvidia desktop GPU, Nvidia is unlikely to give Nintendo such a sweet deal on their "real" GPUs. 



Soundwave said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

You're still not answering your initial statement, which makes no sense.

It would mean you have only one power supply (which comes with the base unit). A desktop Nvidia GPU like you described would require a monstrous power supply unit, now either Nintendo would have to ship that with the base NX unit, which would be stupid because it would be gross overkill for people who will never buy the SCD and it would be the size of the system itself (lol) or it would have to come with its own power supply unit. 

By the way that wouldn't be the first time that has happened to Nintendo, the Disk Drive add-on for the Famicom needed its own power supply. 

If the SCD is just a second Tegra X2 with many a few modifiers, Nintendo could just ship the base NX with one 50 watt power supply, which is reasonable, this is about the same thing the Wii U comes with. Also I just really, really, reeeeally doubt Nintendo is going to spend a lot of money on a custom design Nvidia desktop GPU, Nvidia is unlikely to give Nintendo such a sweet deal on their "real" GPUs. 

Of course the SCD would come with it's own power supply.  Otherwise it wouldn't be much of a "docking station" would it?  More likely, the Tablet would lack a power supply.  N3DS didn't have one.  If you bought NX Tablet + SCD you would just have the docking station plug and if you wanted you could buy a "travel AC adapter" for extra cash.  If you bought the solo tablet, it would come with an AC adapter.

A GPU-only SCD makes more sense than a whole APU.  The Tegra is more powerful than current consoles on the CPU side - it's the GPU and bandwidth for graphics that is lacking.  An older model nVida chip could be customised cheaply to provide NX Home with the power it needs to be respectable.



TheLastStarFighter said:
Soundwave said:

It would mean you have only one power supply (which comes with the base unit). A desktop Nvidia GPU like you described would require a monstrous power supply unit, now either Nintendo would have to ship that with the base NX unit, which would be stupid because it would be gross overkill for people who will never buy the SCD and it would be the size of the system itself (lol) or it would have to come with its own power supply unit. 

By the way that wouldn't be the first time that has happened to Nintendo, the Disk Drive add-on for the Famicom needed its own power supply. 

If the SCD is just a second Tegra X2 with many a few modifiers, Nintendo could just ship the base NX with one 50 watt power supply, which is reasonable, this is about the same thing the Wii U comes with. Also I just really, really, reeeeally doubt Nintendo is going to spend a lot of money on a custom design Nvidia desktop GPU, Nvidia is unlikely to give Nintendo such a sweet deal on their "real" GPUs. 

Of course the SCD would come with it's own power supply.  Otherwise it wouldn't be much of a "docking station" would it?  More likely, the Tablet would lack a power supply.  N3DS didn't have one.  If you bought NX Tablet + SCD you would just have the docking station plug and if you wanted you could buy a "travel AC adapter" for extra cash.  If you bought the solo tablet, it would come with an AC adapter.

A GPU-only SCD makes more sense than a whole APU.  The Tegra is more powerful than current consoles on the CPU side - it's the GPU and bandwidth for graphics that is lacking.  An older model nVida chip could be customised cheaply to provide NX Home with the power it needs to be respectable.

Well, except the patent says the SCD does not come with its power supply and needs to use the main unit's power supply. 

They could cut the CPU cores off the SCD Tegra X2 and put eDRAM there (for 1080P display). That probably makes some sense if they don't need any extra CPU power. 

I think we need to just accept this thing is not intended to compete against the PS4/XB Scorpio, even if it was, 2 TFLOP GPU wouldn't be good enough because now the baseline would be "well this thing still can't run Call of Dooty as well as a Neo and Scorpio", so it's a pissing match that Nintendo wouldn't win. 



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Soundwave said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

Of course the SCD would come with it's own power supply.  Otherwise it wouldn't be much of a "docking station" would it?  More likely, the Tablet would lack a power supply.  N3DS didn't have one.  If you bought NX Tablet + SCD you would just have the docking station plug and if you wanted you could buy a "travel AC adapter" for extra cash.  If you bought the solo tablet, it would come with an AC adapter.

A GPU-only SCD makes more sense than a whole APU.  The Tegra is more powerful than current consoles on the CPU side - it's the GPU and bandwidth for graphics that is lacking.  An older model nVida chip could be customised cheaply to provide NX Home with the power it needs to be respectable.

Well, except the patent says the SCD does not come with its power supply and needs to use the main unit's power supply. 

They could cut the CPU cores off the SCD Tegra X2 and put eDRAM there (for 1080P display). That probably makes some sense if they don't need any extra CPU power. 

I think we need to just accept this thing is not intended to compete against the PS4/XB Scorpio, even if it was, 2 TFLOP GPU wouldn't be good enough because now the baseline would be "well this thing still can't run Call of Dooty as well as a Neo and Scorpio", so it's a pissing match that Nintendo wouldn't win. 

It also says it doesn't have a video card and connects through the main console to the TV.  So it's not a "docking station" at all that you have been suggesting.

But in truth, that's just one possible setup in the sketch.  In all honesty, that patent really implies a home console, connected to TV and with a seperate controller.  And the SCD plugs into the home consle to boost processing, and the processing of other users in exchange for prizes.

So that patent doesn't suggest a Tegra at all, but rather a full home console.  But Nintendo could go in any manner of path with this system.  We just know they're both looking at a tablet-style device with changable controls, and an additional box that boosts processing.  We KNOW this from patents, but the rest of the details - including nVida - is speculation and rumor.



TheLastStarFighter said:
Soundwave said:

Well, except the patent says the SCD does not come with its power supply and needs to use the main unit's power supply. 

They could cut the CPU cores off the SCD Tegra X2 and put eDRAM there (for 1080P display). That probably makes some sense if they don't need any extra CPU power. 

I think we need to just accept this thing is not intended to compete against the PS4/XB Scorpio, even if it was, 2 TFLOP GPU wouldn't be good enough because now the baseline would be "well this thing still can't run Call of Dooty as well as a Neo and Scorpio", so it's a pissing match that Nintendo wouldn't win. 

It also says it doesn't have a video card and connects through the main console to the TV.  So it's not a "docking station" at all that you have been suggesting.

But in truth, that's just one possible setup in the sketch.  In all honesty, that patent really implies a home console, connected to TV and with a seperate controller.  And the SCD plugs into the home consle to boost processing, and the processing of other users in exchange for prizes.

So that patent doesn't suggest a Tegra at all, but rather a full home console.  But Nintendo could go in any manner of path with this system.  We just know they're both looking at a tablet-style device with changable controls, and an additional box that boosts processing.  We KNOW this from patents, but the rest of the details - including nVida - is speculation and rumor.

This is what the patent says:

 

  • Supplemental computing device(s) configured to detachably couple to a game console in order to provide processing resources for an increase of speed or quality of a user's gaming experience.
  •  
  • The supplemental computing device includes one or more processors, memory and one or more communication interfaces.
  • In some instances, the functionality of the device may be basic in order to keep a cost of the device relatively low. As such, the device may be free from drivers, video cards, user-control interfaces, and the like.
  • Users may share processing resources. Doing so can compensate a user in form of access to other supplemental computing devices maintained by other users, discounts on games, access to certain game content, points for redemption for digital or physical goods, social network badges, any form of value really.
With Nintendo it's probably for the best to keep your expectations low in terms of technology, otherwise you're likely to be dissapointed. They have no released a system with high end performance (or even mid-tier performance) in like 15 years and the NX concept presents several problems. 
Beyond all the other issues, the power gap between the SCD and base unit can't be so large, if its that large you're basically asking developers to have to make two seperate versions of each game for the price of one game ... which I don't see going over very well.
A 2:1 ratio with the Tegra X2 (500 GFLOPS to 1 TFLOP) would be probably the ideal sweet spot, once you go above that you're going to have massive problems running the same game on both configurations. 
You can't just have a 400-500 gigaflop portable (in actual usage) and then like a 3 TFLOP SCD configuration, the gap beween the two is ridiculous. 


Soundwave said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

It also says it doesn't have a video card and connects through the main console to the TV.  So it's not a "docking station" at all that you have been suggesting.

But in truth, that's just one possible setup in the sketch.  In all honesty, that patent really implies a home console, connected to TV and with a seperate controller.  And the SCD plugs into the home consle to boost processing, and the processing of other users in exchange for prizes.

So that patent doesn't suggest a Tegra at all, but rather a full home console.  But Nintendo could go in any manner of path with this system.  We just know they're both looking at a tablet-style device with changable controls, and an additional box that boosts processing.  We KNOW this from patents, but the rest of the details - including nVida - is speculation and rumor.

This is what the patent says:

 

  • Supplemental computing device(s) configured to detachably couple to a game console in order to provide processing resources for an increase of speed or quality of a user's gaming experience.
  •  
  • The supplemental computing device includes one or more processors, memory and one or more communication interfaces.
  • In some instances, the functionality of the device may be basic in order to keep a cost of the device relatively low. As such, the device may be free from drivers, video cards, user-control interfaces, and the like.
  • Users may share processing resources. Doing so can compensate a user in form of access to other supplemental computing devices maintained by other users, discounts on games, access to certain game content, points for redemption for digital or physical goods, social network badges, any form of value really.
With Nintendo it's probably for the best to keep your expectations low in terms of technology, otherwise you're likely to be dissapointed. They have no released a system with high end performance (or even mid-tier performance) in like 15 years and the NX concept presents several problems. 
Beyond all the other issues, the power gap between the SCD and base unit can't be so large, if its that large you're basically asking developers to have to make two seperate versions of each game for the price of one game ... which I don't see going over very well.
A 2:1 ratio with the Tegra X2 (500 GFLOPS to 1 TFLOP) would be probably the ideal sweet spot, once you go above that you're going to have massive problems running the same game on both configurations. 
You can't just have a 400-500 gigaflop portable (in actual usage) and then like a 3 TFLOP SCD configuration, the gap beween the two is ridiculous. 

So you're saying the patent doesn't require that the units need the same power supply now?

Also, a 2:1 ration isn't necessary.  As you have said many times, it takes far more resources to present the same game on home screen than a portable. A 3:1 or 4:1 ratio would be fine.

As far as expectations, I have none.  I merely speculate.  I am not exlcuding any option, which you rapidly do only to change it when the next rumor comes along.

I kind of still think we may see two units, a home and a portable, with a shared OS and games but different hardware.



TheLastStarFighter said:
Soundwave said:

This is what the patent says:

 

  • Supplemental computing device(s) configured to detachably couple to a game console in order to provide processing resources for an increase of speed or quality of a user's gaming experience.
  •  
  • The supplemental computing device includes one or more processors, memory and one or more communication interfaces.
  • In some instances, the functionality of the device may be basic in order to keep a cost of the device relatively low. As such, the device may be free from drivers, video cards, user-control interfaces, and the like.
  • Users may share processing resources. Doing so can compensate a user in form of access to other supplemental computing devices maintained by other users, discounts on games, access to certain game content, points for redemption for digital or physical goods, social network badges, any form of value really.
With Nintendo it's probably for the best to keep your expectations low in terms of technology, otherwise you're likely to be dissapointed. They have no released a system with high end performance (or even mid-tier performance) in like 15 years and the NX concept presents several problems. 
Beyond all the other issues, the power gap between the SCD and base unit can't be so large, if its that large you're basically asking developers to have to make two seperate versions of each game for the price of one game ... which I don't see going over very well.
A 2:1 ratio with the Tegra X2 (500 GFLOPS to 1 TFLOP) would be probably the ideal sweet spot, once you go above that you're going to have massive problems running the same game on both configurations. 
You can't just have a 400-500 gigaflop portable (in actual usage) and then like a 3 TFLOP SCD configuration, the gap beween the two is ridiculous. 

So you're saying the patent doesn't require that the units need the same power supply now?

Also, a 2:1 ration isn't necessary.  As you have said many times, it takes far more resources to present the same game on home screen than a portable. A 3:1 or 4:1 ratio would be fine.

As far as expectations, I have none.  I merely speculate.  I am not exlcuding any option, which you rapidly do only to change it when the next rumor comes along.

I kind of still think we may see two units, a home and a portable, with a shared OS and games but different hardware.

Those are the base points of the patent if you read the whole thing I believe it says specifically the SCD does not have its own power supply. It's also illustrated that way. It draws power from the main unit. 

Yes I've said scalable hardware is a good way to go in the past, but Permalite and others have discussed it with me and while some things would work ... other things (like just raw geometry/polygonal crunching power) would be problematic to scale. 

Two Tegra X2s isn't so bad really, I still think with a higher speed RAM frame buffer suitable for 1080P that you'd get basically something comparable to what a Playstation 4 can do. At least enough so that you'd be able to see what Mario Kart and Mario 3D would look like on a PS4 type machine. 

And it would be cheap and very low power draw, two Tegras together even at full load run could run at like 30-40 watts, which would be about the same as a Wii U. 

It wouldnt be so bad and it would be fairly easy for developers too I think, a 2:1 ratio scale is not so tough. I think two Tegra X2s with a higher bandwidth memory layout does get you into the same ball park of XB1/PS4. 

To be honest I think it would be kinda neat if Nintendo just let people buy these little tiny chips and just stack as many as 4 together, lol, that would be neat, though not likely to happen. The idea of a modular console that is easy to plug and play and very streamlined and power efficient because it uses mobile parts is interesting though.



SpokenTruth said:
The funny thing about patents, the end product isn't always what you think.

The other funny thing about them, maybe 1 out of 10 is actually utilized in a real product.

Lets hope they use this SCD patent. Any type of hardware boost would be welcome and at least be an ok compromise between having an affordable system and something that has at least some kick to it when being asked to perform on a 1080P home TV display. 

The cool thing about having the Tegra X2 is the processor is likely very cheap too ... so Nintendo could sell SCDs with that chip for perhaps as low as $99.99 retail and that price could even go down as time passes. Bundle that SCD with a free game and it's a pretty neat new hardware philosophy that we haven't really seen in game consoles before. 

It would be much more streamlined and better implimented than things like the 32X since the system would be designed to accomodate it from day 1.