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Forums - Gaming - Console Market not contracting, becoming more focused

Xbrah on 02 August 2016
Veknoid_Outcast said:
potato_hamster said:

But don't you see that you come off as a gigantic hypocrite by essentially berating consumers for condoning these practices by supporting those practices with their money, when you do the same yourself. You have a PS4, and from what I can see from your signature, have many games for it, and have played many games for it. You probably have a PS + subscription as well based on your ownership of games that were free on PS+ recently. You also own games like The Last Of Us, and Heavy Rain, which have tons of mocap and voice acting. You're supporting the very thing your railing against. So what does that make you?

What gives you the right to criticize the industry and those that support it when you support it so heavily yourself, and consume the very things you claim developers should not be making?

Dude, calm down. Why loose your venom on me? You do realize I'm a writer for the site right? I play these games for a living. I need to know what's going on in the industry so I can write with authority.

Anyway, I never said these things should not be made. There's a place for cinematic action games because there's an audience out there for them. I would never deprive fans of games by Quantic Dream or Naughty Dog. I just think there are a lot of negative trends that make the industry less engaging and less sustaining. Producing more expensive games with less margin for error makes publishers less likely to take risks and more likely to find supplementary sources of income. That's just the reality of the situation. That's what I'm railing against.

Well, Microsoft tried to make the game industry healthier since last generation by introducing subscriptions, timed exclusives and encouraging dlc to supplement game makers income. They also introduced trophies to lengthen games life and keep players on the system and ms store combined with DRM and always online would have brought developers more income. 

Microsoft are the best thing to happen to this industry in a long time. Annual franchises have also been great, like halo and gears.... They have built up games to AAA movie status. 



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potato_hamster on 02 August 2016
Paperboy_J said:
twintail said:

Honestly if there is one console that pushed the boundaries of who a console could appeal to it, it would be the PS1. Sure, the Wii expanded upon this but before the PS1 gaming was pretty much exclusive to youth and as a niche hobby. Then the PS1, and all it's marketting was aimed at saying that anyone could play games (mostly teen, young adult culture at the time). And here we are. The PS2 pushed this even further with various software aimed at casual gamers and did gain traction at the time.

 

 

You're saying the PS1 brought in new gamers like the Wii did?  People who had never been interested in videogames before?  Sorry but I gotta disagree with that.  The people who bought the PS1 were those same kids who grew up on the NES, SNES and Genesis, only older.  The PS1 didn't expand the market, it merely stole Nintendo's and Sega's fans (not saying that's bad or anything, but that's what happened).

Wii on the other hand brought in grannies, soccer moms, everyone.  DS had women gaming for the first time ever.  Those systems just took things to a whole other level.

That isn't really true. The SNES and Genesis combined to sell 78 million consoles worldwide. The PS1 did 105 million itself (plus another 41 million between the N64 and Saturn). While I'm not disagreeing that many of its fans came from Sega and Nintendo, the Playstation also expanded the market signficantly (but definitely not in the way that the Wii and DS did).



Veknoid_Outcast on 02 August 2016
potato_hamster said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

Dude, calm down. Why loose your venom on me? You do realize I'm a writer for the site right? I play these games for a living. I need to know what's going on in the industry so I can write with authority.

Anyway, I never said these things should not be made. There's a place for cinematic action games because there's an audience out there for them. I would never deprive fans of games by Quantic Dream or Naughty Dog. I just think there are a lot of negative trends that make the industry less engaging and less sustaining. Producing more expensive games with less margin for error makes publishers less likely to take risks and more likely to find supplementary sources of income. That's just the reality of the situation. That's what I'm railing against.

And I'm a console game developer making the games you apparently don't want to see made the way they are. It's really irrelevant that you're a writer for the site, or why you play the games you do, the fact of the matter is that you're a part of it. You're a part of the very problem you're railing against. If you don't like how the industry has grown, then why do you continue to support that growth? If you have to play these games and write about them as part of your job, and you don't support the creation of these games, then get another job. Quit writing about video games you don't want to play and an industry that you don't like. Don't offer it up as an excuse for your hypocrisy.

But here's the drag of it. It's easy to be a critic and say "this is broken", but anyone who is bold enough to criticize should also be offering insight as to how to fix it. So how would you fix the game industry? How would you mold it to fit what you feel it should be, and how does that solution put as least as much money in developers pockets as they have now?

I'm sorry, but the industry needs journalists and critics. It can't just be the developer/publisher and the consumer. There needs to be an independent press to monitor and evaluate the industry. I'm not going to give up my job because I hurt your feelings. If YOU can't take the heat, then maybe YOU should quit developing games.

How would I fix the game industry? I'd start by lowering barriers for consumers - both in terms of cost and technology - and encourage publishers to make more modest games with more modest budgets. That means a greater number of people buying systems and games, and fewer studios closing because development and advertising budgets spun far out of control.



Xbrah on 02 August 2016
Veknoid_Outcast said:
potato_hamster said:

And I'm a console game developer making the games you apparently don't want to see made the way they are. It's really irrelevant that you're a writer for the site, or why you play the games you do, the fact of the matter is that you're a part of it. You're a part of the very problem you're railing against. If you don't like how the industry has grown, then why do you continue to support that growth? If you have to play these games and write about them as part of your job, and you don't support the creation of these games, then get another job. Quit writing about video games you don't want to play and an industry that you don't like. Don't offer it up as an excuse for your hypocrisy.

But here's the drag of it. It's easy to be a critic and say "this is broken", but anyone who is bold enough to criticize should also be offering insight as to how to fix it. So how would you fix the game industry? How would you mold it to fit what you feel it should be, and how does that solution put as least as much money in developers pockets as they have now?

I'm sorry, but the industry needs journalists and critics. It can't just be the developer/publisher and the consumer. There needs to be an independent press to monitor and evaluate the industry. I'm not going to give up my job because I hurt your feelings. If YOU can't take the heat, then maybe YOU should quit developing games.

How would I fix the game industry? I'd start by lowering barriers for consumers - both in terms of cost and technology - and encourage publishers to make more modest games with more modest budgets. That means a greater number of people buying systems and games, and fewer studios closing because development and advertising budgets spun far out of control.

Funniest thing I've read all day.



potato_hamster on 02 August 2016
Veknoid_Outcast said:
potato_hamster said:

And I'm a console game developer making the games you apparently don't want to see made the way they are. It's really irrelevant that you're a writer for the site, or why you play the games you do, the fact of the matter is that you're a part of it. You're a part of the very problem you're railing against. If you don't like how the industry has grown, then why do you continue to support that growth? If you have to play these games and write about them as part of your job, and you don't support the creation of these games, then get another job. Quit writing about video games you don't want to play and an industry that you don't like. Don't offer it up as an excuse for your hypocrisy.

But here's the drag of it. It's easy to be a critic and say "this is broken", but anyone who is bold enough to criticize should also be offering insight as to how to fix it. So how would you fix the game industry? How would you mold it to fit what you feel it should be, and how does that solution put as least as much money in developers pockets as they have now?

I'm sorry, but the industry needs journalists and critics. It can't just be the developer/publisher and the consumer. There needs to be an independent press to monitor and evaluate the industry. I'm not going to give up my job because I hurt your feelings. If YOU can't take the heat, then maybe YOU should quit developing games.

How would I fix the game industry? I'd start by lowering barriers for consumers - both in terms of cost and technology - and encourage publishers to make more modest games with more modest budgets. That means a greater number of people buying systems and games, and fewer studios closing because development and advertising budgets spun far out of control.

Hilarious. My feelings aren't hurt, yours clearly are however. I don't actually have any issue with writers or critics for that matter, but I do think it's rather odd that someone who is so against how the gaming industry is evolving would continue to participate, consume, and promote the very things they encourage others to not consume. I'm not the one who has a problem with the gaming industry as it is.  You are. Yet here you are thinking I should leave because I called out your hypocrisy? That apprently means I can't "take the heat" because you have a problem with the game industry and I don't? How can your mind work in a way that that makes sense in your head? Sounds to me like you're projecting pretty hard here.

---

So your solution is to make cheaper game consoles and cheaper developer tools huh? That's nice. That's a question hardware manufacturers have been trying to answer since the dawn of the console. The lower the price, the more you sell, the more you sell the more games that get made for your console, the more games that get made, the more you make in licencing and certification. This was true when the NES hit the market, and it's true for the PS4. So why didn't Sony put out the PS3.1? Why didn't Microsoft put out the Xbox 365? Why didn't Nintendo put out the Wii-Ohh wait they did. Have you considered that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo spend millions a year on market research and know a bit more than you about what consumers want and what they don't? Have you considered that Sony stood to make more money releasing a PS4 instead of a PS3.1 in the face of MS releasing the X1? Have you even looked at the likes of the OUYA or the Wii U? Aren't they more or less what you're asking for? Have you looked at how developers that make highly-profitable multi-million selling games might not want to make games on your console if its power is so limited it holds the game back? Don't forget that PCs don't give a fuck about console peasants, and like it or not consoles always have and always will be competing with them. How does that factor into your cheaper, more consumed friendly console?



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Veknoid_Outcast on 02 August 2016
potato_hamster said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

I'm sorry, but the industry needs journalists and critics. It can't just be the developer/publisher and the consumer. There needs to be an independent press to monitor and evaluate the industry. I'm not going to give up my job because I hurt your feelings. If YOU can't take the heat, then maybe YOU should quit developing games.

How would I fix the game industry? I'd start by lowering barriers for consumers - both in terms of cost and technology - and encourage publishers to make more modest games with more modest budgets. That means a greater number of people buying systems and games, and fewer studios closing because development and advertising budgets spun far out of control.

Hilarious. My feelings aren't hurt, yours clearly are however. I don't actually have any issue with writers or critics for that matter, but I do think it's rather odd that someone who is so against how the gaming industry is evolving would continue to participate, consume, and promote the very things they encourage others to not consume. I'm not the one who has a problem with the gaming industry as it is.  You are. Yet here you are thinking I should leave because I called out your hypocrisy? That apprently means I can't "take the heat" because you have a problem with the game industry and I don't? How can your mind work in a way that that makes sense in your head? Sounds to me like you're projecting pretty hard here.

---

So your solution is to make cheaper game consoles and cheaper developer tools huh? That's nice. That's a question hardware manufacturers have been trying to answer since the dawn of the console. The lower the price, the more you sell, the more you sell the more games that get made for your console, the more games that get made, the more you make in licencing and certification. This was true when the NES hit the market, and it's true for the PS4. So why didn't Sony put out the PS3.1? Why didn't Microsoft put out the Xbox 365? Why didn't Nintendo put out the Wii-Ohh wait they did. Have you considered that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo spend millions a year on market research and know a bit more than you about what consumers want and what they don't? Have you considered that Sony stood to make more money releasing a PS4 instead of a PS3.1 in the face of MS releasing the X1? Have you even looked at the likes of the OUYA or the Wii U? Aren't they more or less what you're asking for? Have you looked at how developers that make highly-profitable multi-million selling games might not want to make games on your console if its power is so limited it holds the game back? Don't forget that PCs don't give a fuck about console peasants, and like it or not consoles always have and always will be competing with them. How does that factor into your cheaper, more consumed friendly console?

Dude, I don't know where all this hostility is coming from. But I'm getting tired of you calling me a hypocrite and questioning my integrity. I play all types of games on all types of systems because that's how one covers the industry. Why do I need to enjoy all of it? There are plenty of crooked journalists out there who simply conform to what publishers demand of them, spitting out puff pieces and dishonest reviewers. I'm not one of them. If I see a problem in the industry I'm going to point it out. I'm going to make a big deal out of it. If I don't, who will exactly?

Is the NYT reporter who attends a Donald Trump speech and afterward writes an op-ed chastising him a hypocrite? No, it's his/her job to cover things he or she might not like, so he/she can provide consumers with information and analysis. The gaming media is not supposed to be a cheerleader for the industry; it's supposed to be a watch dog.

I'd be happy to have a civil debate over the state and future of the video game industry, but I'm not going to suffer any more ad hominem attacks. So start treating me and this forum with respect, or kindly move on to a new target.



kitler53 on 02 August 2016

i will say,..

last gen i owned a ps3, wii, and 360. this gen i own 2 ps4's. i'm quite invested in playstation and picking up a ms or nintendo console sounds like bane.



potato_hamster on 02 August 2016
Veknoid_Outcast said:
potato_hamster said:

Hilarious. My feelings aren't hurt, yours clearly are however. I don't actually have any issue with writers or critics for that matter, but I do think it's rather odd that someone who is so against how the gaming industry is evolving would continue to participate, consume, and promote the very things they encourage others to not consume. I'm not the one who has a problem with the gaming industry as it is.  You are. Yet here you are thinking I should leave because I called out your hypocrisy? That apprently means I can't "take the heat" because you have a problem with the game industry and I don't? How can your mind work in a way that that makes sense in your head? Sounds to me like you're projecting pretty hard here.

---

So your solution is to make cheaper game consoles and cheaper developer tools huh? That's nice. That's a question hardware manufacturers have been trying to answer since the dawn of the console. The lower the price, the more you sell, the more you sell the more games that get made for your console, the more games that get made, the more you make in licencing and certification. This was true when the NES hit the market, and it's true for the PS4. So why didn't Sony put out the PS3.1? Why didn't Microsoft put out the Xbox 365? Why didn't Nintendo put out the Wii-Ohh wait they did. Have you considered that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo spend millions a year on market research and know a bit more than you about what consumers want and what they don't? Have you considered that Sony stood to make more money releasing a PS4 instead of a PS3.1 in the face of MS releasing the X1? Have you even looked at the likes of the OUYA or the Wii U? Aren't they more or less what you're asking for? Have you looked at how developers that make highly-profitable multi-million selling games might not want to make games on your console if its power is so limited it holds the game back? Don't forget that PCs don't give a fuck about console peasants, and like it or not consoles always have and always will be competing with them. How does that factor into your cheaper, more consumed friendly console?

Dude, I don't know where all this hostility is coming from. But I'm getting tired of you calling me a hypocrite and questioning my integrity. I play all types of games on all types of systems because that's how one covers the industry. Why do I need to enjoy all of it? There are plenty of crooked journalists out there who simply conform to what publishers demand of them, spitting out puff pieces and dishonest reviewers. I'm not one of them. If I see a problem in the industry I'm going to point it out. I'm going to make a big deal out of it. If I don't, who will exactly?

Is the NYT reporter who attends a Donald Trump speech and afterward writes an op-ed chastising him a hypocrite? No, it's his/her job to cover things he or she might not like, so he/she can provide consumers with information and analysis. The gaming media is not supposed to be a cheerleader for the industry; it's supposed to be a watch dog.

I'd be happy to have a civil debate over the state and future of the video game industry, but I'm not going to suffer any more ad hominem attacks. So start treating me and this forum with respect, or kindly move on to a new target.

Great job. Keep buying, playing and supporting the very games you have a problem with. In fact I see you've played a few of the games I've had my name on. Thanks for the support!

By the your analogy is flawed, a better one would be a NYT reporter who donates regularly to Donald Trump, buys Donald Trump merch, attends a Donald Trump speech and afterward writes an op-ed chastising him, and urges others not to vote for him, and votes for Donald Trump themself.

You're fueling the very machine you're fighting to starve.



Veknoid_Outcast on 02 August 2016
potato_hamster said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

Dude, I don't know where all this hostility is coming from. But I'm getting tired of you calling me a hypocrite and questioning my integrity. I play all types of games on all types of systems because that's how one covers the industry. Why do I need to enjoy all of it? There are plenty of crooked journalists out there who simply conform to what publishers demand of them, spitting out puff pieces and dishonest reviewers. I'm not one of them. If I see a problem in the industry I'm going to point it out. I'm going to make a big deal out of it. If I don't, who will exactly?

Is the NYT reporter who attends a Donald Trump speech and afterward writes an op-ed chastising him a hypocrite? No, it's his/her job to cover things he or she might not like, so he/she can provide consumers with information and analysis. The gaming media is not supposed to be a cheerleader for the industry; it's supposed to be a watch dog.

I'd be happy to have a civil debate over the state and future of the video game industry, but I'm not going to suffer any more ad hominem attacks. So start treating me and this forum with respect, or kindly move on to a new target.

Great job. Keep buying, playing and supporting the very games you have a problem with. In fact I see you've played a few of the games I've had my name on. Thanks for the support!

By the your analogy is flawed, a better one would be a NYT reporter who donates regularly to Donald Trump, buys Donald Trump merch, attends a Donald Trump speech and afterward writes an op-ed chastising him, and urges others not to vote for him, and votes for Donald Trump themself.

You're fueling the very machine you're fighting to starve.

I hope you find peace. God bless.



potato_hamster on 02 August 2016
Veknoid_Outcast said:
potato_hamster said:

Great job. Keep buying, playing and supporting the very games you have a problem with. In fact I see you've played a few of the games I've had my name on. Thanks for the support!

By the your analogy is flawed, a better one would be a NYT reporter who donates regularly to Donald Trump, buys Donald Trump merch, attends a Donald Trump speech and afterward writes an op-ed chastising him, and urges others not to vote for him, and votes for Donald Trump themself.

You're fueling the very machine you're fighting to starve.

I hope you find peace. God bless.

Hey man, I'm not the one that has to come to terms with my own hypocrisy. I'm not the one that appears to have deluded myself into becoming the Batman of games journalism. Keep fighting for Sony to make a cheaper more affordable hardware while you buy their consoles at prices you feel is way too high, and push Sony to urge developers to make lower-scale lower budget games, while buying high-budget PS4 game after high-budget PS4 game and playing the shit out of them. Keep telling Sony to curb DLC and subscription services while you sign up for yet another year of PS+. They'll totally believe that you really want them to go down that path when you pre-order The Last Guardian. Best of luck with that.

It'll serve you well to be more self-aware.