By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - PC Discussion - No Man Sky in trouble? Developers may have a patent problem.

bananaking21 on 21 July 2016
SvennoJ said:
IkePoR said:

Well it says they attempted to reach out to Hello Games and haven't gotten a response.  It's important to note that there's no timetable for this - they could have contacted them ages ago and still haven't heard anything.

If I'd been trying to contact you over something I owned and knew you were plagiarizing to make profit and you ignored me, I'd make noise around the same time Genicap is.  Just before you could make a red cent off my patent.  Right now there's no way to tell if this is the case but if it is, it makes a lot of sense.

NMS has been in crush time game development for a long time. When you're trying to finish a game on time, there's not much time to discuss how it all works. That's what Gielis seems to want from Hello games.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-21-why-no-mans-sky-fans-are-worried-about-a-patented-superformula

  • It would be great to exchange knowhow with Hello Games. We believe No Man's Sky is the beginning of a new generation of games. What Hello games did with the formula is very impressive. Johan Gielis, the founder of Genicap and the one who discovered the superformula, is extremely proud.
  • If Hello Games used our technology, at some stage we will have to get to the table. We have reached out to them but understand they have been busy. We trust that we will be able to discuss this in a normal way.

It's the Telegraaf that's stirring things up
The Telegraaf quotes an ICT lawyer, called Arnoud Engelfriet, as saying if No Man's Sky infringes on Gielis' patent, then there should be "a compensation", and "distribution should be discontinued".
It's not even Genicap's patent lawyer.

So in the end I guess that even if NMS uses the super formula, all that Genicap wants is their knowledge to further their own work to create a working engine

  • Genicap is working on a project to create revolutionary software based on the superformula that can be used likewise by indies and the major game studios.
  • Using the superformula to generate natural objects enables you to create endless varied and original objects such as trees, rocks, beaches, planets and mountains. Currently most of this work is still done manually. We are still in the conceptual phase. We expect to be able to tell you more in autumn.

You can use our formula, if you show us how you made all of that with it. Of course then the patent lawyers step in as Hello games could just as well patent their applications. It would all just be a lot nicer without patent lawyers!

honestly that sounds to me like they just want to know how Hello Games is making their game, in an attempt to use the same technology in their software. sounds like a scam to try copy/steal what Hello Games did, and try come out as the "nice guy" in the attempt. 



Around the Network
KLXVER on 21 July 2016
method114 said:
KLXVER said:
Another douchebag suing for an old patent they would never use anyway...

Completely disagree with this statement. It's easy to talk like this though when your not the person who put thier time and effort into creating it. The real disgusting thing here is the devs of this game using this and not even bothering to talk to the creator to see if it's cool.

Not with a patent from 2004 he hasnt done shit with. The developers probably didnt even know about it. This kind of game has been talked about way before 2004.



V-r0cK on 21 July 2016
ArchangelMadzz said:

How convenient, This game was announced years ago and has been big for a long time.

They come out with this now for a quick payday. The game is coming out soon, they know Sony/Hello Games doesn't want a long legal battle and Genicap probably can't afford it anyway, so they say something now to get a quick pay day and settle the issue.

Actually I think this lawsuit is handled better than most as the game hasn't even come out yet and haven't made any money.

The real douchebags are the ones that file lawsuits like the one guy that was suing Nintendo for a patent on the 3DS that the 3DS has already been out for years making tons of money, thus that person was asking for alot more money.



Lrdfancypants on 21 July 2016
FunFan said:

A dutch company called Genicap is claiming they own the "super-formula" used as the basis for No Man Sky procedually generated Space. And they do have a very good case as No Man Sky devs already discussed a year ago that they were using a formula created by a plant geneticist named Johan Gielis who happens to work at Genicaps. Well, seems this formula was patented back in 2004. 

Still, the timing of this claim seems a bit too convenient as the game was close to launch on PC, but this dispute may force another delay until things are settled. It could take years to settle anything in court, but something tells me Genicap might be very willing to settle things outside. Regardless of what happens this is a very unfortunate event for No Man Sky developer as they seem to be caught in a lose-lose situation here. In case the worst happens, at least we still have Starbound.

Article from Gamezone. Original Report from Telegraaf.

"Close to launch on PC"

whew, at least the ps4 version isn't in jeopardy!



l <---- Do you mean this glitch Gribble?  If not, I'll keep looking.  

 

 

 

 

I am on the other side of my sig....am I warm or cold?  

Marco....

method114 on 21 July 2016
KLXVER said:
method114 said:

Completely disagree with this statement. It's easy to talk like this though when your not the person who put thier time and effort into creating it. The real disgusting thing here is the devs of this game using this and not even bothering to talk to the creator to see if it's cool.

Not with a patent from 2004 he hasnt done shit with. The developers probably didnt even know about it. This kind of game has been talked about way before 2004.

Doesn't matter that he hasn't done anything with it maybe he's been trying but failing? It's his that's all that matters. The devs did know someone already posted how the game dev said as much. At the end of the day it's extremely lazy and irresponsible to not even talk to the guy and the company has tried reaching out to them already and has been ignored.



Around the Network
Nem on 21 July 2016

I do think patents are the worst thing ever. Patents should naturally void after a few years (no more than 5) if not used.

These cases are completely idiotic.The problem is in the law.



KLXVER on 21 July 2016
method114 said:
KLXVER said:

Not with a patent from 2004 he hasnt done shit with. The developers probably didnt even know about it. This kind of game has been talked about way before 2004.

Doesn't matter that he hasn't done anything with it maybe he's been trying but failing? It's his that's all that matters. The devs did know someone already posted how the game dev said as much. At the end of the day it's extremely lazy and irresponsible to not even talk to the guy and the company has tried reaching out to them already and has been ignored.

Yeah, they have tried and failed for 12 years. Let someone else give it a shot.



jungemann on 21 July 2016
KLXVER said:
method114 said:

Doesn't matter that he hasn't done anything with it maybe he's been trying but failing? It's his that's all that matters. The devs did know someone already posted how the game dev said as much. At the end of the day it's extremely lazy and irresponsible to not even talk to the guy and the company has tried reaching out to them already and has been ignored.

Yeah, they have tried and failed for 12 years. Let someone else give it a shot.

for free?
so gimme your work and money you did not do anything substancial with and let me try to make some more about it?!

patents are a good thing, if they're not trivia and people accept fair use and reasonable royalties / licencing fees




KLXVER on 21 July 2016
jungemann said:
KLXVER said:

Yeah, they have tried and failed for 12 years. Let someone else give it a shot.

for free?
so gimme your work and money you did not do anything substancial with and let me try to make some more about it?!

patents are a good thing, if they're not trivia and people accept fair use and reasonable royalties / licencing fees

How much do you really pay for an idea thats been around for a long time, but someone just happens to have the patent for it?



SvennoJ on 21 July 2016
KLXVER said:
method114 said:

Completely disagree with this statement. It's easy to talk like this though when your not the person who put thier time and effort into creating it. The real disgusting thing here is the devs of this game using this and not even bothering to talk to the creator to see if it's cool.

Not with a patent from 2004 he hasnt done shit with. The developers probably didnt even know about it. This kind of game has been talked about way before 2004.

The developers did know about it

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/05/18/world-without-end-raffi-khatchadourian

More recently, he had noticed geological formations that an artist had hand-designed for another video game, and realized that the algorithms of No Man’s Sky were not equipped to make them. The problem nagged at him, until he found an equation, published in 2003 by a Belgian plant geneticist named Johan Gielis. The simple equation can describe a large number of natural forms—the contours of diatoms, starfish, spiderwebs, shells, snowflakes, crystals. Even Gielis was amazed at the range when he plugged it into modelling software. “All these beautiful shapes came rolling out,” he told Nature. “It seemed too good to be true—I spent two years thinking, What did I do wrong? and How come no one else has discovered it?” Gielis called his equation the Superformula.

Murray, sitting before his monitor, typed the Superformula into the terrain of a test planet. He began simply, creating walnut-shaped forms that floated in an infinite grid over a desert. The image resembled a nineteen-eighties album cover, but the over-all look was not the point. Whenever he refreshed the rendering, the floating shapes changed. Many were asymmetrical, marred by depressions and rivulets. Game designers refer to lines of code that require lots of processing time as “costly.” The Superformula is cheap.

Ofcourse no clue how far they went through with it in the end.

He envisioned using the Superformula throughout the game, especially at the center of the galaxy, where landscapes would become more surreal. With only small shifts in its parameters, the equation was producing impressive variability. In one rendering, it produced rolling hills. Murray refreshed the screen: a star-shaped rock formation appeared. He seemed pleased. “It’s always a good sign when I am clicking the button, and there is that slight amount of excitement,” he said.

The main problem that Genicap is also trying to tackle is how to get all that beautiful variety without getting the unwanted stuff.