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Forums - General - Is free will a myth?

Player2 on 25 June 2016
Teeqoz said:
RolStoppable said:

I edited my previous post.

If you want an answer regardless, it is yes, because I can choose to not call you an idiot. This doesn't break the laws of physics.

As did I. But if you do think you can control the chemical reactions in your brain, then there must be something metaphysical (maybe a ghost!) to it. There's no getting around that.

There's no need for that. Same chemical reactions could lead to different results because in physics 2+2 isn't always 4. or 5. or 6.

Quick example:

Take a male bunny and a female bunny and put them in a rabbity hole for four months. Do you know how many bunnies are there in the hole now?



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Peh on 25 June 2016
WolfpackN64 said:
It's a sociologically proven fact free will exist, as long as you take into account education, upbringing, job, family, friends and other sources of influence.

So no, free will does exist.

I just put "It's a sociologically proven fact free will exists" into google and that was the first link:

https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/no-you-dont-have-free-will-and-this-is-why/

Any source you could provide of this so called proof?



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Peh on 25 June 2016
Player2 said:
Teeqoz said:

As did I. But if you do think you can control the chemical reactions in your brain, then there must be something metaphysical (maybe a ghost!) to it. There's no getting around that.

There's no need for that. Same chemical reactions could lead to different results because in physics 2+2 isn't always 4. or 5. or 6.

Quick example:

Take a male bunny and a female bunny and put them in a rabbity hole for four months. Do you know how many bunnies are there in the hole now?

That's a flawed argument. You went from physics to mathematics to biology. I suppose you don't even know where you are going with it.

But your bunny issue can be explained easily by biology. I don't want to even debunk this, because it's a waste of time.



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Peh on 25 June 2016
deskpro2k3 said:
Teeqoz said:

I've been doing a bit of research lately (not professionally, just reading through stuff that was already out there), and I found myself convinced that what we call free will is in essence an illusion. This sort of conflicts with what I want to be true, but rationally, it just makes sense.

 

When all comes to all, our brain transmits signals through chemicals and electrical impulses, and each single action that happens is caused by one or more other actions. Everything we do is a result of factors that we have no control over, thus free will doesn't exist. It's sort of hard to comprehend what this implies, and it's a mindboggling concept though, but what do you guys think?

 

PS. Keep in mind, this doesn't mean everything has a predetermined outcome and that everything is moving on a set path. It just means that you (and I, and everyone else) don't actually have a say on what the outcome is.

 

We must go deeper.. deeper than those drain signals, chemicals and electrical impulses. Our brain is made up of atoms, and those atoms is made up of electrons and neutrons but even deeper than that is quarks..Still even more deeper...Higgs Bosons.. and.. deeper still? Photons? At what point are we different from the air that we breathe and the light that we see?

 

What do you expect to find there? First we differentiate between organic and unorganic materials. The difference in both lie in the moleculs and chemical compounds.

Look at how the DNA is made off. And than compare it to air and light. If you go only by atoms, you won't see a difference, because this world we live in is made of matter and energy. But at some level, the difference occur at how it interacts which each other.



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Nem on 25 June 2016

Meh... i think decisions are based on information and experience. It's natural that your perception and interpretation of that information will lead you to a decision, wich is different from other people (or not), but that doesn't make it any less yours or an outcome that was pre-determined. That is a backwards way of thinking is my opinion. Because you are who you are, with your own experiences and therefore singular, your decisions are singular. Your own.

 

What is free will then? Cause you have the ability to resist or change any decision you make. If you think that you made the decision organicly, howcome did you change your mind? Because you gained more information. We are intelligences. Intelligences are repositories of information and we use that information as we see fit. Logicaly or illogicaly(emotionally). 

 

So... i do think this is phylosiphy gone to the extreme.



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Player2 on 25 June 2016
Peh said:
Player2 said:

There's no need for that. Same chemical reactions could lead to different results because in physics 2+2 isn't always 4. or 5. or 6.

Quick example:

Take a male bunny and a female bunny and put them in a rabbity hole for four months. Do you know how many bunnies are there in the hole now?

That's a flawed argument. You went from physics to mathematics to biology. I suppose you don't even know where you are going with it.

But your bunny issue can be explained easily by biology. I don't want to even debunk this, because it's a waste of time.

If this is all you have to say I must have done something right.



WolfpackN64 on 25 June 2016
Peh said:
WolfpackN64 said:
It's a sociologically proven fact free will exist, as long as you take into account education, upbringing, job, family, friends and other sources of influence.

So no, free will does exist.

I just put "It's a sociologically proven fact free will exists" into google and that was the first link:

https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/no-you-dont-have-free-will-and-this-is-why/

Any source you could provide of this so called proof?

My academic handbook on sociology. I would link it, but it's in Dutch.



Peh on 25 June 2016
Player2 said:
Peh said:

That's a flawed argument. You went from physics to mathematics to biology. I suppose you don't even know where you are going with it.

But your bunny issue can be explained easily by biology. I don't want to even debunk this, because it's a waste of time.

If this is all you have to say I must have done something right.

The opposite. The next thing you could ask is why does a Banana fits perfectly in our hand.

No, tell me, is this supposed to be an argument against Free Will? Why do you think so?



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Peh on 25 June 2016
WolfpackN64 said:
Peh said:

I just put "It's a sociologically proven fact free will exists" into google and that was the first link:

https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/no-you-dont-have-free-will-and-this-is-why/

Any source you could provide of this so called proof?

My academic handbook on sociology. I would link it, but it's in Dutch.

Just doing some google. I can't make a connection between sociology and that free will exists or not other than enforcing the illusion that it exists.

Anything else on this topic?



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KiigelHeart on 25 June 2016

Interesting topic, I used to think free will is just a myth but nowadays I have hard time accepting that everything in the universe is predetermined, just causality and we are only observing. There is and was only one possible outcome. This is what it would mean if free will didn't exist or am I misunderstanding something?